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Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?  
User currently offlineLowecur From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 585 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3228 times:

Groundbreaking today for the new $20M Plattsburgh International Airport Terminal. It's taking place at the old Plattsburgh Air Force Base (11,700' runway). Will be completed in 2007. There's a nice video with the article that gives a sketch.

They are marketing it as the US gateway to Montreal. This cannot make Burlington(BTV) too happy, as this airport will be 1hr less travel time for the Quebec'rs. I know the Quebec'rs like to use BTV to connect to JFK for cheaper flts Internationally than YUL.

Since it looks like a 4 or 5 gate facility(open air), someone will probably sign a lease soon to lock up space. Jetblue may have to move in there by default before someone else. It's will also be a nice airport for some European Charters or weekly international flts for an LCC.

http://www.thechamplainchannel.com/news/4862891/detail.html

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTnsaf From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 123 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3209 times:

Passing the crack pipe around up there are you? I doubt you will see a flood of folks from up north coming down to catch a flight.

Having a long runway doesn't create a market.



700 hours and counting...
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3205 times:

Quoting Tnsaf (Reply 1):
Passing the crack pipe around up there are you? I doubt you will see a flood of folks from up north coming down to catch a flight.

Having a long runway doesn't create a market.

No, but not having to pay the ridiculous Canadian Taxes does create a market!



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineHZ747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3194 times:
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You know Williams Airport in Chandler, AZ is also ex-USAF and has several long runways. They also built a terminal with four gates, and they have yet to lure any airlines there. It has to be at least three years now without any scheduled airlines showing even the slightest interest.


Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlineDeltaGuy767 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 660 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3191 times:

IMO, B6 has already built a strong customer base at BTV, so why would they need to move to Plattsburgh? Also they certainly wouldn't serve both of those airports as they are way too close together about 10< miles I think for such a small customer base to begin with. Also to your point of European Charter airlines trying to grab up slots would require Customs/Immigration into the airport and not to mention a Control Tower and a CAT III or II ILS Approach to allow arrivals during IMC. Also why would they move ops from Mirabel where the airport ahs already been established, and customs wouldn't have to be transited for both the US and Canada. For these reasons I feel that any presence at Plattaburgh is unresaonable when BTV and Mirabel have already been established.

Regards,
DeltaGuy767



A Good Landing is one you walk away from!
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3170 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 4):
they certainly wouldn't serve both of those airports as they are way too close together about 10< miles I think for such a small customer base to begin with.

Actually, since there is no convenient way across Lake Champlain, it's more like a two hour drive between BTV and PBG airports.



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineLowecur From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 585 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3144 times:

Quoting Tnsaf (Reply 1):
Passing the crack pipe around up there are you? I doubt you will see a flood of folks from up north coming down to catch a flight

No crack pipe, but I did get indigestion from some Frog legs I had for dinner.


User currently offlineTnsaf From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 123 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3137 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 4):
Also why would they move ops from Mirabel where the airport ahs already been established, and customs wouldn't have to be transited for both the US and Canada

Mirabel is closed to pax ops. Perhaps you are thinking of Dorval?

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 2):
No, but not having to pay the ridiculous Canadian Taxes does create a market!

Where? Not in Buffalo or Grand Forks for example.



700 hours and counting...
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3131 times:

Quoting Tnsaf (Reply 7):
Where? Not in Buffalo or Grand Forks for example.

Buffalo is a market in and of itself, and Grand Forks' airport is three hours from Winnipeg, the nearest major Canadian city. Certainly, Plattsburgh, at an hour and a half from Montreal, would be a different story, particularly with the taxes in Canada being absurd.



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineSpinkid From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1095 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3090 times:

Crossing the border between Canada and the U.S. isn't exactly a breeze by car. During busy times it can take an hour or so to cross. Who would want to drive an hour south from Montreal, wait another hour at the border just to catch a flight at Plattsburgh. I can't imagine it being that great of a deal.

User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6384 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3074 times:

I thought Plattsburgh had airline service...USX.  Confused


Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineDeltaGuy767 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 660 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3073 times:

Quoting Tnsaf (Reply 7):

Mirabel is closed to pax ops. Perhaps you are thinking of Dorval?

I believe that the thread starter mentioned something about Europeran Charter airlines that could go to Plattsburgh. It was my understanding that Mirabel was open to charter airlines and cargo while DOrval handled all scheduled passenger airlines. If I am mistaken please tell me.

Sincerely from BDL,
DeltaGuy767



A Good Landing is one you walk away from!
User currently offlineLowecur From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 585 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3053 times:

Quoting Spinkid (Reply 9):
Crossing the border between Canada and the U.S. isn't exactly a breeze by car. During busy times it can take an hour or so to cross. Who would want to drive an hour south from Montreal, wait another hour at the border just to catch a flight at Plattsburgh. I can't imagine it being that great of a deal.

They are supposedly spending up to $100M for infrastructure improvements to make the border crossing much easier. Also, downtown Montreal is a 1hr drive from PBG. The airport already has 60 tenants including Pratt & Whitney, Bombardier, and Wyeth Pharma. This airport will be a very viable option for YUL.

http://www.thechamplainchannel.com/money/4853133/detail.html

[Edited 2005-08-18 03:43:14]

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32603 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3049 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 11):
It was my understanding that Mirabel was open to charter airlines and cargo while DOrval handled all scheduled passenger airlines. If I am mistaken please tell me.

That was the case until last fall. All passenger operations are now out of Trudeau (formerly Dorval).



a.
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3010 times:

I think you got the wrong P_ttsburgh for JetBlue's next look. I'm not saying they're coming to Pittsburgh, nor starting that rumor, but I'd give 50 to 1 odds they go to Pittsburgh before Plattsburgh.

User currently offlineTnsaf From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 123 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2979 times:

Quoting Lowecur (Reply 12):
Also, downtown Montreal is a 1hr drive from PBG

I gotta call BS on that one. Having made the drive from St-Jean outside of Montreal there in slightly less than one hour there is no way you can make it from downtown to Plattsburgh in an hour. Throw in average Montreal traffic and you are looking at two hours. Throw in heavy summer traffic at the border and forget it.

You claim to be trying to attract the budget traveler. In Montreal most of that is heading to Florida or Cuba. The Cuban vacation traffic isn't going to fly out of Plattsburg and the charter activity to Florida is not over priced either.

As for the taxes, I think burning 4 hours of gas at over a $1 a liter plus the cost of parking and the extra hassle negate this horrible burden. Anyway how much will the passenger facility fee have to be to recoup the cost of the upgrade to the airport?

Hopes and wishes don't counter economics.



700 hours and counting...
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2951 times:

I beg to differ...I think it would be more attractive to the intra-US traveller, who is now paying domestic fares and taxes as opposed to the transborder fares and taxes...Obviously, with jetBlue's route map, that would likely mean E190 service to JFK, with connecting service to Florida and the West Coast. And like I said, despite Burlington being 20 miles from Plattsburgh, it's a two hour drive because you have to go all the way around Lake Champlain. That said, Google Maps has the Plattsburgh-Montreal drive at about an hour and a half, I highly doubt it's an hour drive for ANYBODY from Montreal to Plattsburgh, even if Google and Mapquest usually use the figures based on people driving the speed limit in Mopeds.

[Edited 2005-08-18 04:46:51]


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2930 times:

Quoting Tnsaf (Reply 15):
I gotta call BS on that one. Having made the drive from St-Jean outside of Montreal there in slightly less than one hour there is no way you can make it from downtown to Plattsburgh in an hour.

Yes, but St-Jean is on the road to Vermont/I-89 (Autoroute 35 and Route 133) whereas you use Autoroute 15 to get to Plattsburgh/I-87

Having driven up to Montréal more times than I care to count, I can attest that it doesn't take more than 1 hour from the Highgate Springs/Philipsburg crossing and that's using slower, less direct Rte 133/35 to 10. Although the Rouses Point/St-Bernard-de-Lacolle is the busiest crossing between Québec and the U.S.

Nonetheless, I don't think the idea of Plattsburgh being a gateway to Montréal and the province of Québec will, in the long run, be very successful, especially with BTV already pretty well entrenched. Also, the wait times at the Route 133/I-89 is generally less than the Autoroute 15/I-87 crossing.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2896 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 10):
I thought Plattsburgh had airline service...USX.

CommutAir serves PLB as Continental Connection, with nonstop service to BOS, BTV and SLK. They did also previously serve PLB when they flew as a US Airways Express carrier as well, until late 2000. (In fact, CommutAir is based in PLB.)



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2830 times:

Bellingham.
Only 40 miles from Vancouver...yet no bum rush by airlines wanting to slide under the border-crossing tax.

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 8):
Grand Forks' airport is three hours from Winnipeg, the nearest major Canadian city.

Interesting you bring it up...in 1983 I made the 3 hour trip to YWG for a cheaper flight to LHR...NW's comparable fare to LGW was about $300 more.
And besides...Winnipeg is just not a draw. At least in the vane of Vancouver and Montreal.

Plattsburgh? Wishful thinking. Sorry for being pessimist.



Delete this User
User currently offlineLowecur From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 585 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2773 times:

So it looks like the hour drive is in dispute.

I wonder if there are any figures out there as far as Canadians driving to BTV to fly? This is a question that probably only Jetblue can answer, and the one that will determine if they show up at PBG. One thing is certain, the infrastructure is being put into place to make this a successful transborder airport and an hour less drive will make all the difference to those now traveling to BTV.

Time will tell, but my money is on Jetblue showing up there at some point and using 190's exclusively out of BTV.


User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2742 times:

It see no chances of jetBlue successfully being lobbied into Plattsburgh. Burlington has just got jetBlue already, and I see no point in them servicing both airports, regardless of distance.
BTW: I thought plattsburgh to burlington was a bit shorter thanks to ferry?
PPS: CommutAir flies Burlington-Plattsburgh, doulb edaily, and actually has sold some seats on the flight!

-Mr. x

[Edited 2005-08-18 16:26:04]


What now?
User currently offlineBigOrange From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2364 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2703 times:

How about Southwest starting service?

Their closest markets are ALB or MHT.

Now putting on the flameproof suit!


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