Udo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3831 times:
Quoting JMJAirways (Thread starter): They have 10 new 772's !? What about the MD11 and the 767 ? Any plans to replace them ?
They MD-11 had already been retired but two pax aircraft were taken back into service due to capacity shortage. The B767s will receive new interiors and won't leave anytime soon.
If AZ stays in business they are a hot candiate for a sizeable order of B787s, maybe combined with a few B773ER.
Iadbgo From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 206 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3724 times:
Last week I flew into IAD and noticed an Alitalia MD-11 parked next to T2. Is this a MD-11F ? The above posts seem to indicate that all of the pax MD-11's are out of service. Doesn't Alitalia still fly non-stop from IAD to MXP?
Alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4656 posts, RR: 45 Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3669 times:
AZ has one remaining M11M that has been servicing IAD recently. The aircraft will be withdrawn from use in the near future and join it's four sisterships in cargo conversion.
AZCargo is phasing out the 742 and will concentrate on meeting its requirements with a fleet of 5 M11s.
AZ long-haul are looking to add four 777s and three 763s to help meet future long-haul needs. The 76s they own are from the mid-late 90s (latest delivered in 1999) and are having interior reconfigs to match the appeal of the 777s. This will enable AZ to open up new stations (HKG and LAX) in addition to increasing frequency on certain routes.
As for the 77W, they want it, but currently, none of the routes can sustain 77W service except for maybe JFK-FCO/MXP and NRT-MXP/FCO. These routes have been consistently running at above 90% LF...
It will be interesting to see where AZ nets out financially. The airline is very keen on adding itself to the 787 airline list. AZ has pretty much decided on Boeing for long-haul a/c and a mixture of Airbus and Embraer for their medium/short-haul a/c. A nice fleet balance if you ask me...
Karan69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2778 posts, RR: 19 Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3581 times:
Quoting Udo (Reply 4): The B767s will receive new interiors and won't leave anytime soon.
Agreed on that and it will be nice to fly on AZs 767s with a 777 type cabin.
But will they be getting PTVs in economy, and if so when will the upgradation procedure begin
Also, what are the routes they operate the 777s to, i am aware of the following
Alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4656 posts, RR: 45 Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3570 times:
Quoting Karan69 (Reply 13): Agreed on that and it will be nice to fly on AZs 767s with a 777 type cabin.
But will they be getting PTVs in economy, and if so when will the upgradation procedure begin
Also, what are the routes they operate the 777s to, i am aware of the following
JFK---MXP/FCO
MIA
NRT
Where else do they operate the 777s to
777s throughout the year operate:
FCO-JFK (Throughout the year, usually rotating to 763 in winter)
FCO-EWR (Summer Only, 763 in Winter)
FCO-NRT (Yr Round)
FCO-GRU (Yr Round)
FCO-EZE (Yr Round)
MXP-JFK (Yr Round)
MXP-NRT (Yr Round)
MXP-KIX (Throughout the Year, rotating with 763)
MXP-GRU (Yr Round)
MXP-EZE (Yr Round)
MXP-MIA (Winter)
IDAWA From Italy, joined Aug 2004, 301 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3437 times:
Quoting JMJAirways (Reply 15): Is the airline miss managed by the management or ?
Unions are hampering any heavy restructuration plan, since it would necessarily lead to heavy job losses. This is one of the main reasons for Alitalia's financial state.
Baw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1994 posts, RR: 31 Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3218 times:
To those of you on this thread who are bashing Alitalia:
There are many other airlines that are doing poorly right now, especially in the United States. I worked for Alitalia for four years running their operation in San Francisco. I was very proud to work for them and had it not been for 9/11, we would have grown to be a very successful, and frankly, one of the best franchises for the airline. Our passenger surveys were 80% FAVORABLE regarding the airline in general and our station in particular. Of course, there were issues and we all know what they are.
I am ill now, so I cannot go into detail about these points, but please do not cast stones unless you are willing to back it up with facts. I have facts to back up every single detail I am stating, so if you wish to challenge what I am saying, fine, bring it on. However, you may need to wait a little...until the dr. says my heart can stand the strain.
For now, I would ask all of you to look at Alitalia with an open mind. They ARE trying and the fleet plan they have is solid and their is revenue growth, so I am encouraged that if they can get their arms around their costs, they will get back in the black.
Just remember what is said about casting the first stone...
baw716
David L. Lamb
fmr Area Manager Northern California
Alitalia (SFOUVAZ)
1998-2002
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
JMJAirways From Sweden, joined Apr 2005, 216 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3105 times:
I totally agree with the previous writer! I think they have a chans. Some US companies have been on "chapter 11" several times, and don't think they saved them selves!
Joost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3128 posts, RR: 4 Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3058 times:
Quoting GARPD (Reply 8):
Inability to adapt to the post 911 aviation industry I think is the main reason.
Increasing competition from other airlines that are cheaper.
It is not, or at least not only, a 9/11 problem.
In Europe, deregulation only arrived a few years ago (1998 IIRC). Before, all countries had their national airline, flying to other countries under different bilaterals.
As an airline (i.e. air links) are very important to a countries economy as a whole, many governments sponsored airlines. If, as a government, you have to subside 10.000 Euros for a flight per year, but the economic benefits for the country are 20.000 Euros, it is a good thing.
However, this lead to a situation where many airlines became 'lazy' and not watching costs closely. They would be rescued by the government anyways, as they would never let it happen to lose airlinks.
After deregulation, competition increased steadily. Also, EU regulations forbid governments to sponsor their home airlines any longer, as there was competition. Now it started to become a problem for airlines with high costs, as new entrants (like easyJet and Ryanair) where based on a low cost model.
Actually all european airlines have passed hard times.
Air France was doing very bad in the mid 90s, and before privatization, they got a huge amount of money by the government, as a 1-time investment. They had a good management and now the airline is profitable.
KLM have passed heavy restructering in the late 1990s, early 2000s. They were profitable before the takeover/merger with Air France, but it took many jobs.
Lufthansa had a hard time, but managed to survive.
Sabena had 1 profitable year in its whole existance. They were sponsored by the government always. They went broke.
Swissair also could not survive in the industry and went broke. Swiss has had a same merger/takeover with LH as KL-AF, as they could not survive as a small airline.
Austrian posted losses last year.
SAS is having a hard time.
Aer Lingues has had a very intensive restructering program.
Alitalia is much like Sabena, but here the government continues to put money in it. Italian government have asked AF to buy Alitalia, but they didn't want it (yet). As said, Alitalia is very much controlled by unions. Restructering is neccesary, and will cost jobs, many jobs. That causes problems with unions (well, that's their job) and it is also not favorable for the Italian government to have a whole bunch of unemployed people. But the bubble will burst once anyways...
Wingedarrow From Italy, joined May 2005, 169 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2986 times:
As usual, some posts here are perfectly ridiculous...
First of all, for those of you that still think that Alitalia "asks" for money knocking at the government's door, once and for all: Alitalia IS the Italian government, that's part of it. So there's nothing scandalous in their giving financial helps to the company.
Second, while someone of you is still guessing superficially whether Alitalia is a good airline or not (and when doing this, if you want to be trusted please include datas and sources), someone else (luckily) is working hard to keep this airline flying, trying to cope with a daily bad propaganda like the one pathetically showed in this thread. As a result of this, new aircrafts and routes are announced, but this has already been discussed in the recent past.
I don't get to understand why every time somone starts a topic about Alitalia, that must always be full of negative thoughts and statements...
Joost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3128 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2968 times:
Quoting Wingedarrow (Reply 21): First of all, for those of you that still think that Alitalia "asks" for money knocking at the government's door, once and for all: Alitalia IS the Italian government, that's part of it. So there's nothing scandalous in their giving financial helps to the company.
While it might not be scandalous, it is against the rules the EU have set about subsides from the government to airlines.
As you might have concluded from my post, I am not against subsides from governments into airlines in general. However, in the EU free aviation market (incl. Norway and Switzerland), a deal was made that no government would subside airlines, in order to create fair competition. As a member of the EU, Italy agreed to this. Belgian and Swiss governments let their airlines collapse, not Italy.
I am well aware that it is not an easy situation and I know there is not one single solution for the problem, as a collapsing AZ would be very bad for the countries economy.
Hoewever, I think it would be better to restructure the company in a controlled way, and form it into a good offer for AF, LH or BA - just like KL did. It will mean job losses, but when controlling it, the social and economical impact can be minimized. Decreasing your number of employees by just not replacing retirees or not renewing temporary contracts does not cause social problems or strikes.
JMJAirways From Sweden, joined Apr 2005, 216 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2889 times:
Quoting Wingedarrow (Reply 21): don't get to understand why every time somone starts a topic about Alitalia, that must always be full of negative thoughts and statements...
I agree! There seems to be a very negative feeling about Alitalia. That is sad because AZ is a great airline otherwise than the "economical" part!
So I don't get why all this negativity ?!?
Try AZ and then form you'r opinion! (maybe you already did)
Wingedarrow From Italy, joined May 2005, 169 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2841 times:
Quoting Joost (Reply 22): it is against the rules the EU have set
This is no news and the whole issue has already been matter of discussion at the EU parliament and in this forum. The EU commission judged not illegal a "bridge loan" to...
Quoting Joost (Reply 22): restructure the company in a controlled way
Quoting Joost (Reply 22): It will mean job losses, but when controlling it, the social and economical impact can be minimized. Decreasing your number of employees by just not replacing retirees or not renewing temporary contracts does not cause social problems or strikes.
On what planet are you living Joost??? How would you "control" thousands of jobless people here? And what about their families? The Italian context is so hard and complex that cannot be discussed just dropping two lines here and there, especially if you don't know it. It's amazing to see how many know-it-all with ready solutions we have here around, but unfortunately none of them is ruling our country and our airline...
אליטליה
25 Joost: Please read my post. I said controlled job losses in not replacing people who retire and not renewing temporary contracts. This is how KLM also manag
26 Wingedarrow: Oh, really??? It causes HUGE problems, my dear, because we desperately need those people! Now they are even looking for workers who are willing to le
27 Joost: I am sorry if you misunderstood. Reading your profile I see you are working for AZ . And I have no doubt about the fact that you are better informed
28 Wingedarrow: It would be nice to meet! If you wish, send me a message with all the details so I can check if I'm at work. C U
29 Karan69: I completely share Wingedarrow and Baw716 s view over AZ being a fine example, I do not have any personal experience myself, but my father has flown t
30 Alitalia744: Wingedarrow - Nice to see some people standing up for the company! Alitalia is not just an airline to many Italians. It is a symbol of our history and
Sponsor Message: 
From Sweden, joined Apr 2005, 216 posts, 
From Lebanon, joined Feb 2005, 2937 posts, 
From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2477 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From France, joined Aug 2003, 7312 posts, 
From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2291 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 206 posts, 
From Serbia, joined Aug 2005, 158 posts, 
From India, joined Oct 2004, 2778 posts, 
From Italy, joined Aug 2004, 301 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
