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North America To Romania (no Direct Service...)  
User currently offlineVio From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1440 posts, RR: 10
Posted (9 years 2 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3819 times:

Hi,

Having dual Canadian/Romanian citizenship, I travel about once a year to Western Romania. Up to 2002, I lived in Windsor, Ontario. (since then, I've been in Calgary).

Prior to 2002 I had two choices of departure cities: Toronto & Detroit (I could also depart Windsor, to Toronto, by Canadian Regional, Air Ontario, or lately AC Jazz)

From these two departure cities, there are quite a number of airlines that offer connecting service to Bucharest, Romania:

From Toronto:

Air Canada/Lufthansa via Frankfurt or Munich
British Airways via London
Air France via Paris
KLM via Amsterdam
LOT via Warsaw
CSA via Prague
Alitalia via Milano ... etc.


From Detroit:

Northwest/KLM via Amsterdam
Lufthansa via Frankfurt … etc.


There are no direct flights from Canada to Romania. Back in the 90s, Tarom used to offer flights from Bucharest to Montreal (I’m not even sure if they were direct), but that service is no longer available, nor are any other Trans Atlantic flights, such as New York or Chicago.

Canada has a large Romanian population, especially in Toronto and Montreal. Detroit also has a large Romanian population. I'm sure the demand is there for a direct flight from North America to Romania.

So here are some questions:

1. How come Tarom stopped its services to Montreal, New-York & Chicago? (Are their A310s no longer economical?)
2. How come Air Canada doesn’t offer direct service? (If they were to start what city would the fly from and what aircraft would they most likely use?)
3. How come none of the US carriers fly there? (again… if any of the major ones should start, who would most likely offer it? From where? And what aircraft would they most likely use?)


If I had to answer my own questions (with no actual facts to back them up), I’d say:

1. (I have no clue about this one)
2. Air Canada would fly YYZ – OTP & YUL – OTP with an A330.
3. Continental would most likely offer EWR – OTP with a 767.


Personally I enjoy flying, so I don’t mind changing planes in FRA or LHR or AMS, but many people would rather limit that. Connecting flights increase travel times, congest airports (correct me if I’m wrong about that) & increases the chance of getting your luggage lost/delayed.

Personally I think they should have direct service to Romania, especially from such cities as Montreal, Toronto, New York, Chicago.. A lot of people could use it. I know since I live in Calgary, I’m pretty much out of luck. One way or another I have to connect…

Thanks


Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2933 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3764 times:

From the USA and back in the day before there were global alliances, the late great Pan Am flew from JFK to Bucharest via their hub in FRA. The transatlantic portion was on a Clipper 747 and the the FRA-OTP was on a 727. I am not sure, but I believe the service was suspended when DL acquired PA's European operations.

Since then no other US airline, that I know of, has offered schedule service to Romania.


User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6344 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3747 times:

I know (or at least am 90% sure) that TAROM had nonstop (or at least direct) service from ORD to Bucharest not all that long ago (maybe 6 years?) on, I believe, 767s. Shame there isn't more service though, Romania is a great place often ignored by North American tourists.

With regards to this, is TAROM a government owned or backed airline? If not, would the government have anything to gain subsidizing TAROM service into North America, this probably increasing tourism to Romania?


User currently offlineVio From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1440 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3726 times:

Quote:
With regards to this, is TAROM a government owned or backed airline? If not, would the government have anything to gain subsidizing TAROM service into North America, this probably increasing tourism to Romania?




From what I know Tarom is mostly owned by the Romanian Gouvernment (something like 90%-95%). (and .. did Tarom ever fly the 767? I don't think so). Right after the Revolution, then Prime Minister Petre Roman, purchased the A310s.

Cheers

Vio



Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6344 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3697 times:

Oh man...maybe I am thinking about Balkan Bulgarian? Maybe TAROM never even flew to ORD, but I really thought they did. All this was when I really didn't know all that much about commercial aviation, so you have to take all I say with quite a large grain of salt!  Smile

User currently offlineVio From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1440 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3682 times:

Hi SW733,

Tarom did fly to ORD (There's not photo in the database to prove it though), however see below... (to JFK & YUL)

See below:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael F. McLaughlin


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © BOBK




Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
User currently offlineNorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1851 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3691 times:
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you might be thinking of Malev, i know they have 767s from JFK-BUD, i don't think Balkan has ever served the U.S. unless it was with IL-62s back in the day. i know LOT also flies from JFK and ORD to WAW. it's kind of too bad Tarom stopped their NY svc, i remember reading the OAGs as a kid and marveling as their 707 service JFK-VIE-OTP. i also remember that until fairly recently, they had the A310 service, i wonder what happened to it?


Why are people so against low yields?! If lower yields means more people can travel abroad, i'm all for it
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6344 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3670 times:

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 6):
you might be thinking of Malev, i know they have 767s from JFK-BUD

I'm not sure if you regarded this towards me, but I know I wasn't thinking about Malev. I know they fly YYZ and JFK to BUD, but I don't think they ever were in Chicago...again, I could be wrong

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 6):
know LOT also flies from JFK and ORD to WAW

They also fly ORD - Krakow (not sure if they also serve the city from New York), which is a GREAT service I took once from Poland to Chicago. The airport in Krakow is so easy in and easy out, and then on top of that being able to fly all the way to Chicago from there...fantastic.

Quoting Vio (Reply 5):
Tarom did fly to ORD

Thank you! At least I feel a little more confident about myself...er, at least when it comes to aviation  Wink


User currently offlineAirfrancejfk From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 480 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 5 days ago) and read 3574 times:

Tarom flew up until about a year ago from Romania into JFK. The offered direct and nonstop service from New York to Bucharest and Timisoara. When they flew the B707, flights were operated via Vienna.

Flights were flown with the IL-62 & B707 (one of the last passenger operators of the type at JFK) and eventually the A310.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Howard Chaloner




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Howard Chaloner


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bill Hough


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Luca Baroncelli




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sam Chui



Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 6):
i don't think Balkan has ever served the U.S.
unless it was with IL-62s back in the day.

Balkan flew into JFK from Sofia with B767 aircraft until a few years ago.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael F. McLaughlin



Also, don't forget about Jes Air, they flew into JFK from Bulgaria for a short while as well.


User currently offlineCHI787ORD From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 547 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 5 days ago) and read 3546 times:

Quoting SW733 (Reply 4):
Maybe TAROM never even flew to ORD, but I really thought they did.

No, Tarom did fly to ORD. I remember flying ORD-DEL when I was younger with my family on TAROM in 1995.


User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 5 days ago) and read 3528 times:

While Bucharest should get service, I think lots of cities in the Balkans region (Zagreb and Belgrade) should also get service from at least ORD (especially BEG, there are more Serbs in Chicago than anywhere else in the world, other than Belgrade


What now?
User currently offlineMark_D. From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 1447 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3445 times:

Was only a few short years ago (2002) that YUL still had its food court windows looking out on the outside world -- the tarmac, in particular-- and a TAROM A310 would taxi by mostly in summer evening sunshine a few nights a week, to go first I think to Timosoara and then to Bucharest.

Seems such a long time ago now for all kinds of reasons --not least of which the terminal windows being all sealed up in the ostensible name of progress-- but as for the TAROM service I guess the huge numbers of Montréal-area expat Romanians now when they travel back use either Air France -which generally has the best fares to central and eastern Europe since it's got such a huge presence at the airport especially in summertime-- or if they wish there's always Swiss to Zurich, Austrian to Vienna or Lufthansa to Munich --I guess in that order of preference too--, all of course just a short hop away from Bucharest themselves.

Too crowded a market selection there I guess for say Air Canada to care much about the route, or for that matter I guess even TAROM themselves now as well, particularly in this sky-high-fuel-cost day and age.


User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3404 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 1):
I am not sure, but I believe the service was suspended when DL acquired PA's European operations.

OTP was not suspended until 1997 around the time the FRA hub was dismantled. After the PA acquisition DL operated flight DL14/15 into and out of OTP the flights routing was ATL-FRA-VIE-OTP-VIE-FRA-ATL. Once a passenger arrived FRA they were transferred to another aircraft. Early on OTP saw the 310 and later the 762 before losing DL service.



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3325 times:

LOT flies not only from JFK and ORD but from YYZ and EWR also.

The routings follow:

ORD-WAW
ORD-KRK
JFK-WAW
JFK-KRK
EWR-WAW
YYZ-WAW


User currently offlineAC787 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 337 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3280 times:

Quoting Vio (Thread starter):
Prior to 2002 I had two choices of departure cities: Toronto & Detroit (I could also depart Windsor, to Toronto, by Canadian Regional, Air Ontario, or lately AC Jazz)

Why not fly AC from Calgary to London and then make your connection from there?


User currently offlineL1011aaron From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3249 times:

To confirm i have just checked the 2000 edition of 'Airlines Worldwide' by B I Hengi and Tarom definitely flew to ORD at that time.

User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4994 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3234 times:

Tarom flew a Friday ORD-YUL-OTP service

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16307 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3210 times:

Quoting Vio (Thread starter):
Personally I think they should have direct service to Romania, especially from such cities as Montreal, Toronto, New York, Chicago..

If there was a market, there would be service. Clearly, there is no market.

Romania is a very poor and corrupt country. It has no tourism that any North Americans would be interested in. There are few business oppty's in Romania. There is also perhaps at best a tiny Romanian ethnic community in North America not large or prosperous enough to support even a weekly 752 charter operation to North America.

The only oppty for a Romanian service to North America would be with a govt-owned and subsidized Romanian carrier.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6344 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3176 times:

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 17):
It has no tourism that any North Americans would be interested in

Have you been? Because, personally, as a tourist, I loved Romania.


User currently offlineKEno From Malaysia, joined Feb 2004, 1842 posts, RR: 27
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3150 times:

Quoting SW733 (Reply 18):
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 17):
It has no tourism that any North Americans would be interested in

Have you been? Because, personally, as a tourist, I loved Romania.

I take it you're not familiar with Yyz717 view of the world?  Wink Anywhere outside the US, Canada, Australia, Western Europe, Israel and other "first world" nations in his view are all insignificant, corrupted and very poor, hence not worthy of the developed world's attention.


User currently offlineMyk From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3133 times:

it seems that Tarom has a contact in NYC, according to their website its :

NEW YORK:
TAROM Office
Empire State Building 350, Fifth Avenue, suite 1410, NY 10118
Phone: (1-212) 560-0840
Fax: (1-212) 560-0845
e-mail:taromnyc@tarom.us


User currently offlineMark_D. From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 1447 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3122 times:

Yyz717-- It has no tourism that any North Americans would be interested in.

Oh Peily. Up to your own blanket-statement tricks yet once again, huh  silly 


Romania is a very poor and corrupt country.

We're not exactly in the Ceaucescu-era-orphan-scandal days anymore, mind you, but sure the country has its share of problems. Canada too, y'know, and Toronto in particular itself. So c'mon.

And no need to start out on the road well-traveled either. You can first periodically brush up on what's really going on there at a place like this instead.


There is also perhaps at best a tiny Romanian ethnic community in North America not large or prosperous enough to support even a weekly 752 charter operation to North America.

Well in Montréal anyway I can tell you that they're both prosperous and numerous enough to show up at the FINA World Aquatics championships in large numbers for Romanian waterpolo matches --even when the team kept losing out-of-the-medals relegation matches after the quarterfinal loss to Serbia-Montenegro. After their very final match (and loss) to Spain on the morning of the last day for instance some of the folks had a big open barbecue picnic food spread on the grass outside the stands, with cheery Romanian colours aplenty for the main decor all around. And the past few years there's been available a free Romanian-language community newspaper showing up in various shopping centres in the city, as well as a free annual ~100page 'Ghid Pagini Romanesti' address booklet for folks to have handy. So they can't be doing that badly, really.




KEno-- Anywhere outside the US, Canada, Australia, Western Europe, Israel and other "first world" nations in his view are all insignificant, corrupted and very poor, hence not worthy of the developed world's attention.

Actually it seems there're a few steps further still, here. Maybe anywhere outside Rosedale, Forest Hill, Aurora, the best of the Harbourfront and a few other neighbourhoods, for Peily the rest of Canada perhaps doesn't make the cut either  silly  (certainly we can write off just about all of Québec specifically, in this particular regard  fluffy  )


User currently offlineTLG From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3017 times:

In 1996 I flew OTP-FRA-OTP on a DL 727. They suspended the route, as well as many others to Eastern Europe from Frankfurt, shortly after that.

-TLG


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