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MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops  
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4574 times:

Quote taken from this article

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/...trike_x.htm?csp=28&RM_Exclude=Juno

But the nation's fourth-largest carrier said it has been preparing for the strike for more than a year and a half. Last week Northwest said it has 1,200 such replacements and 300 maintenance managers available for day-to-day repairs. Meanwhile, Northwest negotiated contracts with third-party maintenance vendors, both in the United States and overseas, to take on more heavy overhaul and component repair work. Most of those vendors, including KLM, the Dutch carrier that has been Northwest's long-time alliance partner, already handle much of that work for Northwest.

As a result, the strike appeared to have little impact on Northwest's operations as of late Saturday morning. The airline's busiest airports reported only a handful of delays or cancellations.

At a news conference, company executives said their contingency plan was working "flawlessly," with very few cancellations and flights predominantly on time.

"We certainly don't expect delays to increase" as the strike progresses, said Andy Roberts, the carrier's vice president of operations. He said replacements were clearing up a backlog of minor maintenance issues and "the operation should continue to improve."

A union spokesman didn't immediately return a call seeking a response.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2611 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4565 times:

I agree, we've seen weather do more damage than this!


B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4540 times:

Of course a maintenance strike won't affect much on the first day. What you think all their airplanes are going to break as soon as the mechanics walk out? It takes time for the maintenance problems to build up. There's no instant affect like a pilot or F/A strike.


09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offline242 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 498 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4492 times:

We'll see what happens a week from now.

The routine maintenance events can likely be taken care of by inexperienced workers, but the non-routine technical problems can cripple operations. It takes seven to ten years to become technically proficient on an aircraft type. I expect significant disruptions, even though management will downplay them as planned schedule changes.


User currently offlineTropicBird From United States of America, joined May 2005, 502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4474 times:

It will take 7 to 10 days for maintenance issues at the airline to back up (deferred maint) and possibly become a liability. The 2 big questions here are how many MEL's will the FAA allow them to have and still meet skd departures and how will the pilots (and F/A's) feel about having these "scabs" fixing their aircraft. Who knows what their background and training is?

It is indeed amazing to me how much pilots will compromise the safety of their passengers and fellow crewmembers in this regard. It seems to me all this talk about the importance of "experienced" pilots and mechanics is just smoke and mirrors. The cost of the airfare and the need for a job overrule all common sense and decency anymore both to the passengers and employees alike. We get what we deserve here in the U.S.


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4969 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4447 times:

Implicit in what NW is saying is that the replacements will end the "by the book" action that was already disrupting NW's operation. Too bad...maybe a bunch of allegedly-"minor" stuff was finally being fixed during that action rather than deferred. No wonder NW management is so gleeful to get the AMFA guys out of there.

User currently offlineAviationwiz From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 959 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4392 times:

Let's also keep in mind that they rolled up the cutting of 15% of their flights because of the strike, to me, that's having an effect.


Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4391 times:

Quoting TropicBird (Reply 4):
Who knows what their background and training is?

The replacement mechanics have at least 5 years experience each. The average experience is 14 years.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineAviationwiz From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 959 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4369 times:

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 5):
Implicit in what NW is saying is that the replacements will end the "by the book" action that was already disrupting NW's operation. Too bad...maybe a bunch of allegedly-"minor" stuff was finally being fixed during that action rather than deferred.

Interesting... I wonder, exactly how far 'off the book' are these scabs going to go, compared to real NW mx in a normal day.



Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
User currently offline242 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 498 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4338 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 7):
The replacement mechanics have at least 5 years experience each. The average experience is 14 years.

And that means...???

The DC9 isn't a very intuitive aircraft. You either know it's quirks or you don't. Those that have never maintained a complex machine may not get it, but a five year windows user can't become a Linux guru overnight. I think the DC9 fleet will suffer the most.


User currently offlineJjbiv From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1226 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4211 times:

...and you don't think NW knows enough of the "quirks" of this long-lived fleet type to have trained the replacement mechanics as to how to handle said "quirks" nor that many of the replacements may have worked with the DC-9 or its derivatives before? The operation may not be perfect, but NW management has a vested interest in making sure that it runs and that the money keeps flowing in. AMFA didn't own the "golden key" to NW's fleet!

joe


User currently offlineAirWest From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4174 times:

If the mechanical happens at an outstation, it shouldn't be much of a problem. Outside of hubs, few stations have NW AMFA mechanics, so local FBOs or maintenance companies are used.

Zach

[Edited 2005-08-20 23:15:25]

User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4096 times:

Quoting 242 (Reply 9):
Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 7):
The replacement mechanics have at least 5 years experience each. The average experience is 14 years.

And that means...???

The DC9 isn't a very intuitive aircraft. You either know it's quirks or you don't. Those that have never maintained a complex machine may not get it, but a five year windows user can't become a Linux guru overnight. I think the DC9 fleet will suffer the most.

I think that your forgetting that the managers are still there also. They are the ones with more knowledge and know-how than anyone. They will be able to train the new guys and take care of the problems with no problem. Like mentioned the AMFA guys are not gods over the NW fleet. The replacements coming in are going to be MX from other airlines, a lot will have military experience and im sure that some will be from companies that only do outsourced MX. If there is anything that these guys don't quite understand there are lots of people around the world that NW can fly in to teach and help.

Its great now the union members that talk about how they don't care about the airline and if it fails are gone NW can get back to business as usual. It will be a little while to get the new guys completely up to par and get all the new contracts in to place but after that NW will have cut a substantial amount of money and there is no way that the AMFA guys would every be allowed back after some of the comments made.....

Good Job NW!!!



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21415 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4018 times:

Quoting Jjbiv (Reply 10):
...and you don't think NW knows enough of the "quirks" of this long-lived fleet type to have trained the replacement mechanics as to how to handle said "quirks" nor that many of the replacements may have worked with the DC-9 or its derivatives before?

No, don't you know? The management is always full of morons and the only people worth anything are the union workers at any company. Without union labor, all companies would fall apart and millions would die.  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3982 times:

IKRAMERICA..post13....And let me add to that....... the tooth-fairy shows up tonight with money she fogot to pay you since you were a kid.......plus the interest.
 sarcastic  knowwhatImean?
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineDl757md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3882 times:

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 12):
They are the ones with more knowledge and know-how than anyone. They will be able to train the new guys and take care of the problems with no problem.

You obviously have never worked MX at an airline.

Dl757Md



757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
User currently offline242 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 498 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3741 times:

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 12):
I think that your forgetting that the managers are still there also. They are the ones with more knowledge and know-how than anyone. They will be able to train the new guys and take care of the problems with no problem. Like mentioned the AMFA guys are not gods over the NW fleet. The replacements coming in are going to be MX from other airlines, a lot will have military experience and im sure that some will be from companies that only do outsourced MX. If there is anything that these guys don't quite understand there are lots of people around the world that NW can fly in to teach and help.

Generally, most in maintenance management haven't touched an aircraft in years, and usually aren't that current on maintenance procedures, even though at one time they were. This knowledge comes from my twelve years working on aircraft for four different airlines.

UAL747DEN, please share with us some of your line maintenance experiences.


User currently offlineJjbiv From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1226 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3721 times:

I don't know if I'd give mx management that much credit (it's a long way from the office to the hangar floor for some,) but putting all the resources NW has assembled together, they should be able to run a solid operation in just a few days. I remember starting my first airline job; everything started coming together quickly when dealing with a live operation. Day by day, week by week, month by month, the situation at NW can only improve from the respectable showing put forth today.

joe


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29690 posts, RR: 59
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3712 times:

The Union up here in Anchorage is claiming that managements claims that the schedual is intact is somewhat exagerated.

They say the airline switched to their lighter fall schedual, so there isn't as much pressure on the fleet.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offline242 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 498 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3678 times:

Word has it that the replacement mechs have been grouped three ways:

Group A: Competent enough to work unsupervised and knowledgeable enough to troubleshoot problems on live aircraft in view of the flight crew and passengers.

Group B: Competent enough to work under direct supervision but are kept out of public view and instructed not to interact with flight crew.

Group C: Those only competent enough to assist group B.

[Edited 2005-08-21 05:58:36]

User currently onlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3047 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3668 times:

Courtesy: WJLA-TV - Washington, D.C

Video Report:

http://www.wjla.com/abc7videopop.hrb...video.wjla.com/wjla/strike0820.wmv


User currently offlineDl757md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3639 times:

Quoting Jjbiv (Reply 17):
Day by day, week by week, month by month, the situation at NW can only improve from the respectable showing put forth today.

Obviously the scabs will gain experience and NW management will find ways to deal with issues that come up, but to say that the situation will improve over what we saw today is very optimistic. The maintenance issues with their fleet will outpace their ability to keep up as time goes on. You can only defer items for so long and I don't care what aircraft, airline, or mechanic you are talking about you can't seamlessly replace an airlines entire AMT ranks overnight and expect to keep the operation going unaffected.

Dl757Md



757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
User currently offlineFedEx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3626 times:

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 12):
They are the ones with more knowledge and know-how than anyone. They will be able to train the new guys and take care of the problems with no problem.


Have you ever heard the old airline maintenance saying that goes something like: "Those who can't fix, teach. Those who can't fix or teach, manage".

Now I have only worked for 4 different airlines at levels ranging from turning wrenches to upper management and back again over the last 10 years, and 3 of 4 have been non-union, but this saying has held a lot of truth everywhere I have worked at every level through my relative short tenure in Maintenance.


User currently offlineCORULEZ05 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3577 times:

Quoting B4real (Reply 1):
I agree, we've seen weather do more damage than this!

What did you expect? NW to shut down? sheesh.....

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 2):
Of course a maintenance strike won't affect much on the first day.

Yea, unfortunately for some of you, NW did not shut down all operations because of this strike....what a shame really.....  Yeah sure

Quoting 242 (Reply 3):
We'll see what happens a week from now.

Sorry to burst your bubble but NW will still be around.....

Quoting 242 (Reply 3):
I expect significant disruptions, even though management will downplay them as planned schedule changes.

Right and you are able to make these outrageous statements on what basis?????


User currently offlineCdfMxTech From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1338 posts, RR: 27
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3573 times:

Quoting 242 (Reply 19):
Word has it that the replacement mechs have been grouped three ways:

Group A: Competent enough to work unsupervised and knowledgeable enough to troubleshoot problems on live aircraft in view of the flight crew and passengers.

Group B: Competent enough to work under direct supervision but are kept out of public view and instructed not to interact with flight crew.

Group C: Those only competent enough to assist group B.

Still laughing about this one!!! Big grin


25 242 : Yes, they will. Likely with an MEL/CDL count through the roof. Twelve years of line maintenance with four different airlines. CORULEZ05, tell us abou
26 UALdispatch : Well based on his profile he has vast experience as a student. A few classes in school will make you an expert in any field these days.
27 Ralgha : So, genius, what makes you think I was hoping for NW to shut down all operations?
28 CORULEZ05 : Fantastic. Thanks for answering my question. Funny enough I NEVER claimed to have ANY experience in that field. I mean, hell...if all of us around he
29 242 : Yes, it would. Free flow of information should be encouraged, however you should consider the differences between informed opinion and uninformed opi
30 Dl757md : From CNN As of late Saturday, the company claimed no significant strike-related disruptions. "The airline is running well. It's business as usual," No
31 Ikramerica : And what is wrong with this? Are you saying that with the striking workers, all of them were so experienced they could work unsupervised? That there
32 242 : NWA has already cut half of the mechanic workforce. The average age of the remaining workers is 51. It's likely that the most junior line mechanic ha
33 Lufthansa : What i say is what else does everybody expect NW to do? I mean it isn't profitable right now? They've got to do something, and drastic times call for
34 Frequentflyer : Hey UA: I concur. Not easy to have a strong contigency plan under the circumstances, I sympathize 100% with Management and replacement, as well as wi
35 C680 : " target=_blank>http://www.wjla.com/abc7videopop.hrb...0.wmv Nice video report - especially for a local station on the weekend. They got their facts r
36 GuitrThree : Umm, sure, blame it on the pilots. Are we not forgetting that the MX crew, who is responsible for the "safe" MX of the aircraft, are the ones putting
37 NWAFA : Bottom line folks, if the Capitan in charges does NOT feel the aircraft is safe and airworthy, he/she will NOT TAKE IT OUT. As a crew member I have fu
38 GuitrThree : Agreed... Why would a Pilot take a jet out that he/feels unsafe in. Remember, he's ON it!!!
39 NWAFA : GuitrThree People for get that..If I ever felt or feel unsafe I would get off so darn quick!
40 LUVRSW : You nailed it FedEx, this applies to many careers, not just the airlines.
41 Dl757md : Have you ever heard of gethomitis? It's killed more than a few aircrew and their pax. Dl757Md
42 Brokenrecord : What would Mexicana have to do with Northwest's strike? =P
43 GuitrThree : Yea, it's a common factor in aircraft crashes, but almost exclusively to GA or corporate charter aircraft in Lear's or the like, and not large passen
44 Dl757md : Did I say NW anywhere in MY post? I've had more than one Captain at work go to the chief pilot over my grounding his airplane when he wanted to get h
45 Post contains images Derik737 : Yes, you are correct. However, the captain doesn't know jack about what he/she can't see. If there are no holes visible, no tires shredded, no huge p
46 GuitrThree : So you have documented proof, like an NTSB report, that states a major airline had an aircraft crash due to a pilot flying an aircraft knowing before
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