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A330 Middle Gear Available?  
User currently offlineWdleiser From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 961 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3112 times:

Hey once again my friend and I are in an argument. Does the A330 have the option to have a middle landing gear and no airline has taken the option or is it not available. So, whats the deal with the A330 and possible landing gear in the middle. I mean we both know the A340 has it and the A340 and 330 have the same fuselage.

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3109 times:

Why would you want it? You obviously don't need it, and it would just add extra weight.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineLsgg From Switzerland, joined Mar 2005, 577 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3091 times:

I don't know but maybe in very high density layout it could be useful Big grin
( I joke of course)



Swissair forever !
User currently offlineLsgg From Switzerland, joined Mar 2005, 577 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3068 times:

However it's an interesting question : Why does an A340 have a middle gear and the A330 not ?
It's a question of weight of course but as you said Wdleiser both aircrafts have the same fuselage...
A340 has 2 more engines, but is that all ?



Swissair forever !
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3062 times:

The A340 has some slightly different wing structure to accomidate the different engine arrangment. Apart from the gear of course, its the only big difference I think.

User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3061 times:

According to a.net stat page, MTOW of the A333 is about 212,000 kg. MTOW of the A343, on the other hand, is 260,000 kg. I'm guessing nearly 50,000 more kg is enough to justify the middle gear.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineWdleiser From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 961 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3055 times:

Does the A330 have the option to have a 3rd Landing gear though?

User currently offlineLsgg From Switzerland, joined Mar 2005, 577 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3040 times:

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 6):
Does the A330 have the option to have a 3rd Landing gear though?

I've never heard that...



Swissair forever !
User currently offlinePlanesailing From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 815 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3013 times:

Yes in the long and short of it.

From a book I have called Giant Airliners and one of the pictures mentions about the middle gear that is optional on the A330. If it is not taken, there is a cover placed over where is should be, which is visable.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © M Radzi Desa



User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2988 times:

Yes in the long and short of it.

From a book I have called Giant Airliners and one of the pictures mentions about the middle gear that is optional on the A330. If it is not taken, there is a cover placed over where is should be, which is visable.


But what benefit would it have? Would it increase the MTOW? It can't be that great an advantage, since no one exercises that option.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlinePlanesailing From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 815 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2970 times:

The only thing I could possibly think of is for increased cycles, if the operator wanted to use the aircraft on short haul large pax routes.

This picture is slightly better for the cover:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter Unmuth - VAP



It is the cover with the slit through the bottom 1/4 in the middle between the two main bogey covers.


User currently offlineLsgg From Switzerland, joined Mar 2005, 577 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2960 times:

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 9):
But what benefit would it have?

Maybe the interest is that the weight of the a/c is better distributed, and so the runway is less worn at each landing...  scratchchin 



Swissair forever !
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2949 times:

Maybe the interest is that the weight of the a/c is better distributed, and so the runway is less worn at each landing...

I doubt airlines worry about runway wear when they order planes, especially if it will add to the weight of the plane, raising costs.  Wink

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlinePlanesailing From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 815 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2940 times:

Im sticking with:

The only thing I could possibly think of is for increased cycles, if the operator wanted to use the aircraft on short haul large pax routes.


User currently offlineLsgg From Switzerland, joined Mar 2005, 577 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2937 times:

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 12):
I doubt airlines worry about runway wear when they order planes, especially if it will add to the weight of the plane, raising costs.

Yes, you're probably right...  Smile


Anyway that would explain the success of the "option" ! Big grin



Swissair forever !
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3905 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2883 times:

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 12):
I doubt airlines worry about runway wear when they order planes, especially if it will add to the weight of the plane, raising costs

Isn't it so that if you distribute the weight over a bigger number of wheels/gears, you can use runways with a lower PCN ?


User currently offlineZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1411 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2856 times:

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 5):
MTOW of the A333 is about 212,000 kg. MTOW of the A343, on the other hand, is 260,000 kg. I'm guessing nearly 50,000 more kg is enough to justify the middle gear.

How come the MTOW of the A343 is so much higher than the A333 if the fuselages are the same length?


User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2826 times:

How come the MTOW of the A343 is so much higher than the A333 if the fuselages are the same length?

Probably because of the extra two engines. You can lift more if you have more thrust.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4493 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2814 times:
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the A340 also can carry about 50000 liters more fuel!
related thread at tech/ops A330/340 Landing Gear (by Trex8 Aug 8 2005 in Tech Ops)


User currently offlinePlanesailing From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 815 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2811 times:

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 17):
Probably because of the extra two engines. You can lift more if you have more thrust.

Not sure if that is the case, the A330-300 compared to the A340-300 has more thrust capability, by at least 5,000lb.

However, twins need more power for a given weight for engine out on takeoff performance.


User currently offlineJet-lagged From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 867 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2781 times:

The A340 is used for longer length routes generally, that means more fuel, and probably also more cargo for both passengers and commercial cargo. Plus, 4 engines will weight more than. Unless the A330 is used in a configuation of high weight, it apparantley doesn't need the middle gear.

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 15):
Isn't it so that if you distribute the weight over a bigger number of wheels/gears, you can use runways with a lower PCN ?

That is an interesting idea. Especially if you are in the odd situation of being an airline with a homebase at a low PCN airport.


User currently offlineZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1411 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2767 times:

So simply because of more fuel for longer range?

User currently offlinePawsleykat From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1978 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2738 times:

IF the 330 had the missle landing gear, it wouldn't be an A330, it would be an A340 "wote" aircraft. (With only two engines) So, no, I don't think so. But I know the share the same fueslage section. So can the A330 be fitted with middle landing gear? ?:-(


First Class passengers are my favourites. They can't get any further forward without an ATPL.
User currently offlineCanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3387 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2733 times:

Quoting Pawsleykat (Reply 22):
IF the 330 had the missle landing gear, it wouldn't be an A330, it would be an A340 "wote" aircraft. (With only two engines)

I'd call it an A335... half way between a 330 and a 340... so it wouldn't really be either...



CanadianNorth



What could possibly go wrong?
User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4493 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2723 times:
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Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 21):
So simply because of more fuel for longer range?

well strictly its weight, MTOW for a A343 is 275 tonnes, for a A333 its max at 233, At 233 tonnes the A330 landing gear is probably close to being maxed out in weight bearing capacity thus the extra center leg for the A343


25 Dan2002 : That would be a sight, is it related to the 767s with missile pods on them? -dan
26 Jet-lagged : Maybe some kind of hyperturbolifterboost for aborted landings. cheers
27 Trex8 : Its the Starfleet warp drive power module.
28 Qantas744ER : Ive seen a 340-300 without the center landing gear, i think it was the airbus prototype. Does anyone know why they removed it? Cheers Leo
29 Planesailing : The centre gear can remain stowed for a weight penalty.
30 Jorge1812 : There's a pic of an Canthay A-340 in the database without the center gear. I think it was taken at HKG. Georg.
31 Buckfifty : The centre gear's only purpose is to support a higher ramp and takeoff weight, but not landing weight. During landing, the centre gear is not a struct
32 JDD1 : Planesailing I think your book is wrong (unless it is from Airbus). To my knowledge there is no option for a centre MLG on the A330. The A330-300 has
33 C680 : Ahhhh. Very informative. I assume the following is true: The center gear does add some drag (helpful for landing configuration) but if it is not requ
34 ACdreamliner : remember the A340 has more range than the A330 so it will need more fuel, thus alot more weight!
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