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Why Did Aer Lingus Dump Their 763s?  
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3597 times:

Back in the early 1990s, Aer Lingus planned to replace their 741s with 767s. In (I think) 1993, 2 were delivered but these were quickly replaced with the 330s from 1994 on.
But what was the reason for EIs rejection of the 767? It has worked so well for other airlines on similar routes to/from the US.



[Edited 2005-08-21 11:58:05]

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGARPD From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2579 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3560 times:

Quoting EI321 (Thread starter):
Back in the early 1990s, Aer Lingus planned to replace their 741s with 767s. In (I think) 1993, 2 were delivered but these were quickly replaced with the 330s from 1994 on.
But what was the reason for EIs rejection of the 767? It has worked so well for other airlines on similar routes to/from the US.

Isn't it obvious?
The A330 was/is simply a better aircraft. Less fuel burn for more or less the same seats and range.

I also have a sneaky suspicion it also came down to price, seeing as they already had 767s.



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User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3546 times:

But what surprises me is that the 767s were only in the fleet for a year or so. Why did EI even get them in the first place if they were ordering the 330 around the same time.

User currently offlineGARPD From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2579 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3543 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 2):
But what surprises me is that the 767s were only in the fleet for a year or so. Why did EI even get them in the first place if they were ordering the 330 around the same time.

Perhaps an interim solution. Or Airbus pulled an Iberia with them and stole their custom at the drop of a hat?



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User currently offlineKL5147 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3536 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 2):
But what surprises me is that the 767s were only in the fleet for a year or so. Why did EI even get them in the first place if they were ordering the 330 around the same time.

Maybe the comment by this pic might give a hint?


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alastair T. Gardiner - WorldAirImages




"The world is just a click away!"
User currently offlineGARPD From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2579 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3524 times:

There you go... interim solution.


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User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3439 times:

That photo is misleading, as will transpire.

GPA ordered two 767s c/ns 24952/3 which had Boeing GPA customer designation 767-3Y0 as part of an order for 8, c/ns 24947/24954.

It then sought lease contracts for the aircraft. 24947 was delivered as CC-CDL on 11 March 1991 but the lease to LAN was not carried through and the aircraft was leased to TransBrasil on 15 May 1991.

24952 was delivered on 19 March 1991 as EI-CAL and was delivered to Aer Lingus the same day.

24953 had EI-CAM reserved by GPA for Aer Lingus. It was delivered as XA-RWX to GPA/Aer Lingus on 12 December 1991 and went to Aeromexico the same day.

The rest of the batch were cancelled.

EI-CAL was delivered in full Aer Lingus colours and crew familiarisation was carried out by using on routes to LHR and various European destinations ex Dublin - I have photos taken at LHR.

In June 1991, Aeromexico subleased the aircaft as XA-RWW. It was returned to Aer Lingus in October 1992, sub leased to Air Aruba in November, returned June 1993 then sub leased to TWA in February 1994 with whom it operated as EI-CAL.

24953 was returned to Aer Lingus in February 1993. They operated it in the all white scheme until it was sub leased to TWA in February 1994 as EI-CAM.

Aer Lingus had suffered a decline in their VFR Atlantic traffic in the late 1980s. Their 747s were flying with empty seats and were getting long in the tooth. The link with Boeing was strong, GPA was based at SNN and GPA were big and flexible enough to be able to source extra aircraft in short order, or take back the aircraft if required with minimal penalties.

Aer Lingus had a plan to reduce the 747 fleet from 3 to 2, using them to JFK and to use the 767s to Boston and develop new, thinner, routes to the US using down time to cover the more popular LHR and Paris schedules.

The deal was flexible and, had it worked, no doubt one or more of the 767s GPA had to cancel would have been taken in addition.

As it was Saddam Hussein had other ideas and the reduction in air travel during Desert Shield and Desert Storm and in the year after, especially on the Atlantic, caused a massive downturn in Aer Lingus's traffic.

GPA was badly hit and, far from being flexible, insisted Aer Lingus continue their leases on the two aircraft leaving the airline to find sub-lessors - a situation only resolved after the remnants of GPA were absorbed into GE Capital.

This didn't solve Aer Lingus's 747 replacement problems, however, but traffic picked up, the A330-300 was perfect with regard to size, range and operating costs and 3 were ordered to replace the 747s.


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 6953 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3381 times:

EI really learnt a lot from being burnt in the 767 order, and has rightly resulted in very conservative long haul aircraft orders coming from then onwards. The aircraft subleased onwards cost EI a fortune, as the lease prices had substantially dropped between the master lease signature, and what AeroMexico paid.

Post 9/11, EI was amonst the biggest airline exposed to trans-atlantic flying (as a % of total flying, it was second to Virgin), but had an excellent lease rotation strategy in place. Within weeks, they could off-load the Damp leased World MD-11, and a 330-300. Basically EI had one damp leased aircraft and (I presume still have) one 330 ready to be dropped at the end of the summer season if market shocks demanded so.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3322 times:

EI-SHN, the A330 that Aer Lingus let go was, as were the original 4 A330s, leased from ILFC.

Now, according to the 17 August 2005 edition of the IAA Civil Register, all 6 remaining A330s are owned by Aer Lingus.

The register does not show operators and the wide variety of aircraft on lease around the world with Irish registry are listed with the owners' names and addresses.

It would seem they now have ownership of all the A330s and this is probably why they and the Irish Government are in difficulty when it comes to the financing of new aircraft.


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3054 times:

Quoting Philb (Reply 8):
all 6 remaining A330s are owned by Aer Lingus.

I thought EI have 7 330s?, 3 332s and 4 333s?

http://www.aerlingus.com/cgi-bin/obe...ffgdfki.0&P_OID=-8064&Category=0=1


User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2900 times:

How could I forget EI-DAA?

Also owned by the Green Company.


User currently offlineDstc47 From Ireland, joined Sep 1999, 1446 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2703 times:

Both 767's were for an EI service to LAX that never happened.
They were not 747 replacements.
With a downturn in the business climate EI did not launch the LAX service at that time, LAX service was eventually launched years later with 330-200's.


User currently offlineCalAir From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 298 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2526 times:

Did EI ever fly the 747 on NON US routes?


British Caledonian...we never forget, you have a choice
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12322 posts, RR: 35
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2515 times:

It operated the 747s on scheduled flights to the US only, but the aircraft were also flown on regional charter flights - Spain, etc, plus the odd flight to LHR (at Christmas); however, JFK and BOS (plus ORD towards the end) got most of them.

It was very sad that the 763 failed to meet its potential at EI; it could have worked a lot better for them. One factor was that the Irish govt insisted on the Shannon stopover; EI originally wanted to use the 763 to launch routes to LAX in the early 1990s. Frankly, I think EI could have used them better; while they were leased (for example to AM), they were stuck on the runway at DUB for quite a long time. Using them on scheduled flights to ORD (which they planned to do originally) would surely have been a better option.


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