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Qatar Airways To Buy 80 New Jets  
User currently offlineSquirrel83 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12653 times:

Some of this is old news but at the same time there is new information . .

Qatar Airways intends to sign deals by September worth 15.6 billion U.S. dollars for 80 Airbus and Boeing wide-body jets, its chief executive said recently. Paris Air Show that it planned to buy a mix of 60 Airbus A350-800 and A350-900 planes and 20 Boeing 777-200LR and 777-300ER aircraft. Qatar, the youngest national carrier in the Gulf Arab region, is due to take delivery of the A350s between 2010 and 2015, while the Boeing planes should arrive between 2007 and 2010.

http://www.maldivesinfo.gov.mv/news.php?newsid=8823

95 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlydubai From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12572 times:

Looks like a 'head to head' battle with EK.

Hamzah


User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3762 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12564 times:

WOW, that's a huge order! Must have a hell of a huge expansion plan!

I think QR is the new EKYeah sure

Is it me, or is 80 new widebodys a hell of lot for such a small airline and country?

I wonder where they plan to use the A350's/777's to?

Will there future fleet consist of just A350's, A380's and 777's?

The CEO of the airline said that QR are not to take any more singlebody a/c from now on, just widebodies!

Rob!  Smile


User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3762 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12546 times:

Quoting Squirrel83 (Thread starter):
Qatar, the youngest national carrier in the Gulf Arab region,

I thought this was EY???

Rob!


User currently offlineFlydubai From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12491 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 3):
I thought this was EY???

QR was re-launched in 1997. It is now one of the world’s fastest growing airlines along with EK.
EK was launched in 1985

Hamzah


User currently offlineHMUcfm56 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12441 times:

Quoting Flydubai (Reply 4):

Quoting B742 (Reply 3):
I thought this was EY???

QR was re-launched in 1997. It is now one of the world’s fastest growing airlines along with EK.
EK was launched in 1985

Hamzah

But EY was launched in 2003


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 12367 times:

This is ridiculous. The fleet expansion plans of Qatar, EK and Etihad simply defy logic.


Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 12289 times:

Experts can say all they want, this is a bubble that just has to burst sometime within the next 10 years. Sure, Dubai attracts lots of tourists and is growing in global importance which is good for Emirates, but what do Qatar and Abu Dhabi offer? Also, seeing as how EK and other are heavily relying on connecting pax, primarily from India, and many Indian Carriers now plan to launch their own longhauls which would make connections in the Emirates obsolete, I seriously doubt all three airlines will be able to continue on like this.

User currently offlineFlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7379 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 12258 times:

Emir's new game : " I am more powerful because I have more planes than you have  tongue "

 sarcastic 


User currently offlinePHXinterrupted From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 12132 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 7):
Experts can say all they want, this is a bubble that just has to burst sometime within the next 10 years. Sure, Dubai attracts lots of tourists and is growing in global importance which is good for Emirates, but what do Qatar and Abu Dhabi offer? Also, seeing as how EK and other are heavily relying on connecting pax, primarily from India, and many Indian Carriers now plan to launch their own longhauls which would make connections in the Emirates obsolete, I seriously doubt all three airlines will be able to continue on like this.

I agree.



Keepin' it real.
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4716 posts, RR: 44
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 12005 times:

This is very old news and unfortunately still the break up of the B 777 and the A 350 order is not mentioned!!!  Sad

User currently offlineWingman From St. Vincent and the Grenadines, joined May 1999, 2099 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 11840 times:

Well, you've got to like the Boeing order a little better from a Risk standpoint. Their jets may actually get delivered and paid for before the bubble explodes. I just don't see how 3-4 tiny little countries with airports just miles apart will somehow provide the sustainable growth required to fill 200+ large widebodies on a daily basis. In the words of Alan Greenspan..."[The Emirs] are suffering from irrational exuberance".

User currently offlineTravellin'man From United States of America, joined May 2001, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11743 times:

While I agree that so much growth in such a small area seems risky, the size of the Emirates is not necessarily as much of a factor as their location, which in turn is less important as a destination than as a through-point. They are well positioned along a well travelled corridor between Australia, Southeast and South Asia, the Middle East and Europe; with ultra long range jets you can also now add the US into that mix. As African traffic takes off, they are there for that too. So many people may choose to fly them to get somewhere else besides Dubai.

As people have remarked here before, just look at Singapore Airlines, at how globally significant they are as an airline compared to how small they are as a country.



It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11717 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 2):
Will there future fleet consist of just A350's, A380's and 777's?

No, they won't get rid of their narrow bodies anytime soon.

Quoting B742 (Reply 2):
The CEO of the airline said that QR are not to take any more singlebody a/c from now on, just widebodies!

Where and when did he say that?

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 6):
This is ridiculous. The fleet expansion plans of Qatar, EK and Etihad simply defy logic.

Apparently not, regarding their loads and expanding networks.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 7):
but what do Qatar and Abu Dhabi offer?

Connections and growing tourist attractions.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 7):
Also, seeing as how EK and other are heavily relying on connecting pax, primarily from India, and many Indian Carriers now plan to launch their own longhauls which would make connections in the Emirates obsolete, I seriously doubt all three airlines will be able to continue on like this.

Wrong, they are not primarily dependant on traffic from and to India. Check out their network.
Their expansion into secondary markets is one future key strategy. They connect city pairs such as Glasgow to Peshawar or Birmingham to Perth with only one convenient stop - and that's just two examples.

Quoting Wingman (Reply 11):
I just don't see how 3-4 tiny little countries with airports just miles apart will somehow provide the sustainable growth required to fill 200+ large widebodies on a daily basis. In the words of Alan Greenspan..."[The Emirs] are suffering from irrational exuberance".

I don't think the Emirs act irrationally. You can bet they only laugh at anyone who underestimates them in arrogant Western attitude...


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineBeauing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11664 times:

Much of this growth will come at the expense of the large European legacy carriers such as BA, LH, and AF. Their lucrative Asian routes will get hammered by this competition.

User currently offlineArniePie From Belgium, joined Aug 2005, 1265 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11611 times:

Quoting Udo (Reply 13):
I don't think the Emirs act irrationally. You can bet they only laugh at anyone who underestimates them in arrogant Western attitude...

Udo,

With all due respect but I think a lot of people just don't want to see the inevitable truth just because it means that a lot of the projected growth both for A and B is based on an airbubble (more so for A than B).
If you go to Dubhai or some of the other Emirates you just have to realize that although growth is certainly a possibility it will be nowhere as big as they (emirs) will like it to be.
That is also exactly the core of the problem; the growth of these airlines is usually the vision of 1 or a couple of the ruling Emirs and as soon as they lose interest or somebody else comes to power with a different vision these trends will abruptly stop.
Just look at Dubhai (Palm islands, 'the world-project",new Amsterdam-like innercity, highest building in the world, longest planned bridge (between UAE and Qatar),... you can't help but wonder and ask yourself...WHY? and who is going to use all this, what will happen if the worlds rich and famous (their target clients) loose interest and they will because that is what they are known for, short attention span.
Also how about political stability in the region, always a very big factor in economic development.

Coming back to the orders, I think it would be a good thing if A and B make contingency plans, just in case, and don't loose too much connection with their other clients.



[edit post]
User currently offlineSan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4939 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11567 times:

The A350s presumably are to replace the A330s, right? I dunno if it's just me (and before I say this I'd like to make it clear that I'm not an Airbus or Boeing man, I am a fan of both.), but it seems like the A350 is like a knee-jerk reaction by Airbus to come up with a quick competitor to the 787. Its supposed to replace the A330 as well, but the A330, in my opinion, doesn't need to be updated or replaced. It's not like a 747 Classic or something thats outdated by 15-20 years. I can see airlines flying A330s well into the 2020s. It doesn't seem like its going to sell too well compared to the 787 anyway...

But thats just how I see it...



Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11514 times:

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 15):
With all due respect but I think a lot of people just don't want to see the inevitable truth just because it means that a lot of the projected growth both for A and B is based on an airbubble (more so for A than B).

Is it the inevitable truth? I don't think so, it simply depends on your point of view. There's always a chance a plan can go wrong but it would be very stupid to underestimate the Emirs' projects and rely on a chance of "bubble bursting".

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 15):
If you go to Dubhai or some of the other Emirates you just have to realize that although growth is certainly a possibility it will be nowhere as big as they (emirs) will like it to be.

No? Then I recommend to read some books or essays about the development of Dubai. It seems they have already achieved more than some of them had ever dreamed of.

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 15):
That is also exactly the core of the problem; the growth of these airlines is usually the vision of 1 or a couple of the ruling Emirs and as soon as they lose interest or somebody else comes to power with a different vision these trends will abruptly stop.

Totally wrong in the case of Dubai. Continuity is an important part of their strategy. These people are rich but they are also very wise and well educated. You shouldn't compare them to some spoilt Saudi princes. And I don't think there is major disagreement with the Emir's plans in Dubai.

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 15):
Just look at Dubhai (Palm islands, 'the world-project",new Amsterdam-like innercity, highest building in the world, longest planned bridge (between UAE and Qatar),... you can't help but wonder and ask yourself...WHY?

Why? Have you ever asked McDonald's why they open restaurants in any podunk? The answer is: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 15):
and who is going to use all this, what will happen if the worlds rich and famous (their target clients) loose interest and they will because that is what they are known for, short attention span.

They only lose interest if anything better occurs on the horizon. But the chances any other country or region will "outperform" Dubai anytime soon are not really good to say it diplomatically...

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 15):
Also how about political stability in the region, always a very big factor in economic development.

The UAE, Qatar or Oman are some of the most stabile countries in the Middle East, so I don't see any serious problems. You need dissatisfaction of the people for political instability and you won't find that there.

Quoting San747 (Reply 16):
but it seems like the A350 is like a knee-jerk reaction by Airbus to come up with a quick competitor to the 787.

It seemed to be in the beginning, but Airbus has been working hard to present a tough competitor. They haven't finished yet...


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11467 times:

It baffles me how a country the size of Belgium can warrant let alone afford 80 widebody commercial airliners. The next time I hear one of Osama bin Buttwipin's cowards accuse the "West" of not paying for "their" oil I'm going to pop a Camel!

Between this order and the one recently for 45 A380s by Emirates, is it not safe to say that at least at this point in time the market for Persian Gulf tourism is a wee bit flooded?   

I'd like see some market analysis from different perspectives - how many more widebodies can it possibly support?

[Edited 2005-08-21 20:50:17]

User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11432 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 18):
It baffles me how a country the size of Belgium can warrant let alone afford 80 widebody commercial airliners.

Ever checked how tiny Singapore is in comparison? And that very country is indeed home to the world's largest B777 operator...  hot 

How they can afford to buy the aircraft? Hm, they export the stuff which flows out of every gas stations...  Wink

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 18):
The next time I hear one of Osama bin Buttwipin's cowards accuse the "West" of not paying for "their" oil I'm going to pop a Camel!

Well, it was just a matter of time until someone throws in "Osama". Great.  Yeah sure

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 18):
Between this order and the one recently for 45 A380s by Emirates, is it not safe to say that at least at this point in time the market for Persian Gulf tourism is a wee bit flooded?

No.


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2868 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11424 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 18):
Between this order and the one recently for 45 A380s by Emirates, is it not safe to say that at least at this point in time the market for Persian Gulf tourism is a wee bit floode

By the time Qatar and EK are done recieving each and every new aircraft it will be sometime around 2015--10 years from now,
so no point in looking at the market being flooded now, but only how to improve upon on it and maintain or increase tourisim in their respective countries/cities.

and if you read the various posts on the thread , they are well on the right track by developing and creating new world class projects day in and day out.


User currently offline707lvr From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 570 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11417 times:

This is good news for aviation all around. Certainly the legacy/state carriers of Europe and Asia will be liberal with nth freedom rights and welcome the additional resources to help carry their citizens about. Furthermore, the emergence of the Gulf states as the world's premiere holiday and shopping destination will be a breath of fresh air for all the former travelers to places like Las Vegas and London. Who wants all that taxed retail and usury anyway, and who really needs boobies, gambling, whores and booze? Sand and really good air-conditioning could be the wave of the future.

User currently offlineArniePie From Belgium, joined Aug 2005, 1265 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11375 times:

Quoting Udo (Reply 17):
Is it the inevitable truth? I don't think so, it simply depends on your point of view. There's always a chance a plan can go wrong but it would be very stupid to underestimate the Emirs' projects and rely on a chance of "bubble bursting".

I guess you are right in saying that nothing is inevitable but you shouldn't overestimate them either.

Quoting Udo (Reply 17):
No? Then I recommend to read some books or essays about the development of Dubai. It seems they have already achieved more than some of them had ever dreamed of.

Well I am well enough informed that, as I said ,there is indeed potential for growth, but I also know from first hand experience that they are playing some high risk games from time to time.

Quoting Udo (Reply 17):
Totally wrong in the case of Dubai. Continuity is an important part of their strategy. These people are rich but they are also very wise and well educated. You shouldn't compare them to some spoilt Saudi princes

Uh, continuity is a part in all economic formula's (even those that do not work) but they certainly are not ALL wise and well educated.
That is a problem in country's that have a class (a family) of people that continuously take the end decisions, their position is nearly never based on merit but on relationships but they still can make the policy's.

A good example is the way their armed forces often work: If you talk to military "advisors" stationed in these country's they will almost always say that even when they have the best equipment they pretty much suck in military tasks, it's nothing more than a playing club for the princes.

It says a lot about the political (and economical) structure of these country's.

Quoting Udo (Reply 17):
Why? Have you ever asked McDonald's why they open restaurants in any podunk? The answer is: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Yes but every McD's is not automatically a success, some of them fail as well you know.

Quoting Udo (Reply 17):
They only lose interest if anything better occurs on the horizon. But the chances any other country or region will "outperform" Dubai anytime soon are not really good to say it diplomatically...

Same was said about a lot of the Caribbean places not to long ago and the schwung certainly went out of those also.

You know what a new trend will be :Cape Verde (spelling?) ,they are starting to plan for the new "place to be" for the rich and the famous as we speak and after that, who knows?

Quoting Udo (Reply 17):
The UAE, Qatar or Oman are some of the most stabile countries in the Middle East

It's not UAE ,QATAR or Oman you should be worried about but some of their close neighbors that could pose a problem and that is just as bad.

Quoting Udo (Reply 17):
It seemed to be in the beginning, but Airbus has been working hard to present a tough competitor. They haven't finished yet...

I agree.



[edit post]
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11363 times:

Quoting Udo (Reply 19):
Quoting AirRyan (Reply 18):
The next time I hear one of Osama bin Buttwipin's cowards accuse the "West" of not paying for "their" oil I'm going to pop a Camel!

Well, it was just a matter of time until someone throws in "Osama". Great.

Its just you Udo who seems to have a problem fighting terrorists so I can assure you that every time I speak of anything that has to do with oil I'll throw in the standard "Damn the terrorist" bites. It's one thing if you don't want to help fight the war on terror but then have the audacity to criticise those that do, stop being such a self-righteous coward. The "terrorists" have forever throughly screwed up the commerical aviation industry we all on this thread are so adamently interested in you seem to have a problem when I vent steam at the terrorists who not only severely hurt our industry but would just as well cut our heads off and broadcast them across Al Jazeer - what's your angle?

Quoting Udo (Reply 19):
Quoting AirRyan (Reply 18):
Between this order and the one recently for 45 A380s by Emirates, is it not safe to say that at least at this point in time the market for Persian Gulf tourism is a wee bit flooded?

No.

Oh sure, I'll just take your word on that based upon your credibility. Care to offer any tangible analysis with your elaborate explanations?

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 20):
so no point in looking at the market being flooded now, but only how to improve upon on it and maintain or increase tourisim in their respective countries/cities.

and if you read the various posts on the thread , they are well on the right track by developing and creating new world class projects day in and day out.

But is this based upon an expected rise in population of the Persian Gulf as well or are these expected estimates based off sole business analysis of increased tourist revenues? Somehow I don't see the region inside these countries at least growing too much larger and I still am waiting to see what sorts of business outside of tourism the UAE and Qatar are proposing. Orlando's KMCO is a big aiport reflective of it's tourism but even they don't qutie have the traffic that these current projections have going into the Persian Gulf ten years from now.

Quoting 707lvr (Reply 21):
This is good news for aviation all around.

I agree, I love to see the Boeing widebody orders but in the longrun they aren't worth anything if they never manifest or are shortly sold back to Boeing because they mis-calculated their projections. I'm looking but I'm not finding too many other businesses in the region other than in oil or tourism.  scratchchin 


User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11325 times:

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 22):
I guess you are right in saying that nothing is inevitable but you shouldn't overestimate them either.

That won't happen.

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 22):
Uh, continuity is a part in all economic formula's (even those that do not work) but they certainly are not ALL wise and well educated.

The decision makers certainly are.

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 22):
That is a problem in country's that have a class (a family) of people that continuously take the end decisions, their position is nearly never based on merit but on relationships but they still can make the policy's.

Sure, they don't have democratic structures, but does that automatically mean anything bad for the country's economic development? It hasn't so far.

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 22):
A good example is the way their armed forces often work: If you talk to military "advisors" stationed in these country's they will almost always say that even when they have the best equipment they pretty much suck in military tasks, it's nothing more than a playing club for the princes.

It says a lot about the political (and economical) structure of these country's.

I can't comment on their military but the economic development has been a total success.

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 22):
Yes but every McD's is not automatically a success, some of them fail as well you know.

Sure, but the aim is always $$$.

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 22):
Same was said about a lot of the Caribbean places not to long ago and the schwung certainly went out of those also.

You know what a new trend will be :Cape Verde (spelling?) ,they are starting to plan for the new "place to be" for the rich and the famous as we speak and after that, who knows?

The Caribbean places lacked exactly of that continuity I mentioned earlier. And the Cape Verde Islands? I doubt they would be able to compete seriously. They don't have the cash to build up an infrastructure comparable to Dubai. And air links are not really encouraging.

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 22):
It's not UAE ,QATAR or Oman you should be worried about but some of their close neighbors that could pose a problem and that is just as bad.

The big bang in Saudi-Arabia? If anything serious happens in Saudi-Arabia then the whole world would find itself in a dangerous oil crisis and economic downturn very soon. Or do you mean Iran? I don't think even the worst mullahs would plan invasions in neigboring countries.


Regards
Udo


25 Post contains images AirRyan : Part of the reason for such a rampant displeasure of the West (yes, Osama was from Saudi Arabia) is that only the Royal House of Saud gets the revenu
26 Post contains links and images Udo : What a crappy and ridiculous statement. Where have I ever said I have a problem with fighting terrorism? Don't put things in my mouth. And where's th
27 ArniePie : I am very curious now as how you may know this? It has indeed nothing to do with democracy (just look at Singapore) but it has all the more to do wit
28 Post contains images Udo : I can only agree with that. I'm just wondering why such an undemocratic country is one of the US' best allies...let me guess... "Arabia"? Who exactly
29 Udo : As I said earlier, the structures in the UAE haven't hurt the business success yet... Did I? Sounds like a description of what has been happening in
30 Soylentgreen : Mybe if gas hits $4 a gallon they'll buy 120 planes. Thanks George. Keep up the good work.
31 ArniePie : There is no real business succes apart from oil and gas quote from one of your sites: Buoyed by growing industrial investment, the manufacturing sect
32 Post contains images Glideslope : More of a reality based Western Attitude. The bases for these airlines is akin to being on top of an active volcano. It would take very little to des
33 ArniePie : Try 1.45€ per liter over here (+/-6.2$USgallon).
34 Lhrmaccoll : Hold on a sec here. Emirates, Qatar, and all the other 'nutters' aren't just sitting on a business plan to the UAE. Emirates have a suprising number o
35 Lumberton : If this article is accurate, the numbers have been firmed up: (quote) its chief executive said recently. [Sic] Paris Air Show that it planned to buy a
36 Lhrmaccoll : Again, obviously they are expanding their long haul fleet, and reworking their strategy. With all that oil money, they can't go wrong right now, but o
37 ArniePie : The only way I see them turning a profit on these large aircraft purchasing deals is when they decide to go in business as a leasing company and specu
38 Neverest : Among other things Emirates benefits from cheap third world labor. They have advantage of low or no taxes. They can very well compete with Western car
39 Post contains links AirRyan : I see your point. I like to discount the "Royal" famil of "Saudi" Arabia and refer to boundaries of Saudi Arabia as just Arabia. I think Pimp Saud me
40 Leskova : Considering what one member posted a few days ago, that jet fuel was cheaper in Frankfurt than in Dubai during some weeks/months this year, I don't r
41 Post contains links Leskova : ... and here it is - from member IL76TD, who lists his location as SHJ/UAE... Here's the link to that thread... RE: 45 A380's For EK! Why So Many? (by
42 Neverest : Quoting Leskova (reply 40) "...jet fuel was cheaper in Frankfurt than in Dubai.." I meant over long-term and generally in Middle East, not just Dubai
43 Post contains images Flydubai : AirRyan are you President Bush I am seriously beginning to wonder? Guys try and stick to the topic! Hamzah
44 Post contains images HZ747300 : I believe that's what the exactly what the experts are saying. Good call In this case, Emirates marketed themselves smartly, and Dubai is a destinati
45 Post contains links BA : MEA's CEO, Mohammed El-Hout has always been one of the strongest and most outspoken critics of these gulf airlines in the Middle East. In July, he was
46 PA110 : This is what I don't understand. Boeing has positioned the 787 to enable more carriers to fly more nonstops to more markets more efficiently. Airbus h
47 UAL777 : Udo, I don't seem to be rude, so if I am, i apologize, but you seem in all of the threads concerning the Middle East to have a sort-of blind faith in
48 MD80Nut : It's easy to forget that Emirates not all that long ago was a regional airline with only A300s and A310s. Now they are a major and serious competitor
49 Ikramerica : Same could be said for Virgin Atlantic, no? As for the middle east being "well positioned" for a lot of traffic, it really isn't compared to HKG, SIN,
50 HZ747300 : No. Otherwise, VS should be excelling on the LHR-SYD route, but they are not. If I leave SYD via VS it does not account for anything until I am back
51 Post contains images Theredbaron : Cool Nickname..!! and very funny post... sad but true..! after reading your post..man the powers that be, are playing you like a piano... too bad AAA
52 Post contains links and images Udo : Funny, you want to tell us Emirates hasn't been successful yet? Not bad for being the result of only few years... In your opinion it might be "nonsen
53 Mrniji : No idea where to park all these aircraft and how to accommodate all pax: DOH airport is horrible and smaller than my office
54 Post contains links Udo : They will have plenty of space when most of the new jets arrive. http://www.qatarairways.com/6.2074.0.0.1.0.htm Regards Udo
55 6thfreedom : Hence QR pushing back A380 deliveries until 2009. But you are correct... The only thing that will curb QR's growth between now and 2009 is lack of ai
56 Post contains images ArniePie : Udo, We can go into another round of these lengthy somewhat pointless discussions but I'm afraid I'm not going to change my view and I think neither w
57 Post contains images HZ747300 : Glenn Engel, Goldman Sachs in a report issued on June 20, 2005 after the Paris Air Show. Thanks but no thanks on the airline bit. But, I am actually
58 Post contains images Mrniji : They coul ddo great business with AI, keeping in mind that the latter are dependent on leasing. The yack Ministry here: no words Actually, discussion
59 Post contains images Udo : Deliveries are scheduled between 2007 and 2012. Let's agree to disagree. Thanks for that, you have my respect as well. But be careful in bringing the
60 Lhrmaccoll : I don't mean to go off the topic, but this really made me laugh. "Quoting Udo (Reply 26): And where's the relation between oil and terrorists?" - The
61 Shenzhen : I think these three carriers may have bitten off a little too much.. as you can only attack the EU/Australian market for so long (which is the end of
62 Cricket : If the subcontinental carriers (and I mean the whole ruddy lot) ever start getting all the planes they want to get and start operating the routes they
63 Post contains images Udo : Thanks for another ridiculous generalization. Regards Udo
64 HZ747300 : Sadly though, this one is all to true. At least in Jeddah it was.
65 Post contains images Mrniji : Of course, admitted, we are all terrorists - good post Udo, Cricket has a point. I have flown numerous times from teh Gulf to India. QR was brilliant
66 Udo : That's why I oppose generalizations. Regards Udo
67 Post contains images VH-BZF : So when are Qatar Airways going to be flying some of these new jets to Melbourne, as they were supposed to do by the end of last year? Anybody know? C
68 777ER : Way to go Boeing and Airbus. Good to see Boeings are going to enter the fleet.
69 6thfreedom : They opened a Melbourne office last week i believe. Don't know whether that means that flights are imminent...
70 PA110 : Udo, you need to get off the soapbox and cut the attitude. I've traveled extensively in the region and lived in the middle east for 3 years. Gulf Ara
71 Post contains images Udo : Nobody is forced to go to the Gulf states. And were were talking about airline service, not overall labor conditions. I asked you three questions if
72 Post contains images Mrniji : PA110, Udo, how about just being friends again? - I kinda like you both... so I won't engage in the debate anymore (and I remained silent), though I w
73 EKGOLD : how many gulf state aircraft do you see sitting idle in the desert compared to those of US carriers? Qatar Airways, EK and other Gulf State Carriers
74 Post contains images PA110 : None taken at all. No worries. Yes, I read your previous comments, but like others on this forum I don't necessarily agree with your conclusions. I'v
75 LH477 : These Middle Easter Countries are relying to one simple thing, thier giant neighbours to the East....India and China.....EK in the past has preety muc
76 Udo : I meant the city pair examples in reply 13. The chances of nonstops between secondary destinations are not good, not even after hundreds of B787s are
77 YOWza : Spot on my son! I think we all know by this point that AirRyan is not god's gift to geography. Quick tongue lashing like this put you on my RU list,
78 Atmx2000 : Crappy treatment of South Asians, Southeast Asians, and Fillipinos by Gulf State Arabs occurs even outside the Gulf States. There was a forced labor
79 Sebolino : Perhaps, but thanks the western world (especially the US) and China buying so much oil at a so high price, they have plenty of money to spend. So why
80 Mrniji : Me too. The minute AirRyan posts, you can be assured that it something based on assumptions drawn from the microcosm he lives - some hate statements.
81 EKGOLD : The predominant reason they import labour is because the population and skill base just does not exist in the Gulf States. Tasks beneath is a very ge
82 Atmx2000 : The US's labor force participation is high, which is part of the reason why there is a demand for foreign labor. This is in contrast to the situation
83 EKGOLD : be careful how you use the word slavery... a blanket statement like that is very irresponsible indeed...
84 BA : The Gulf States import two kinds of labor. The first kind of labor is the "hi-tech" labor. They bring Lebanese, Palestinians, Syrians, Jordanians, and
85 HZ747300 : Where it is legal now, it is referred to as indentured servitude. Has a nice ring to it, don't you think. Importing labour when unemployment is at 5%
86 AirMale : First of all, I don't think Qatar wants to become a second Dubai, or a second Disneyland in the desert.... The Qatari society is much more traditional
87 YOWza : Regardless of what you want you are getting a second Dubai, having lived in Doha and Dubai I can tell you this for a fact. Dubai has hotel X then Doh
88 Post contains images AirbusfanYYZ : Sounds like "plane envy" to me.  Have you ever been to Dubai? I have had the pleasure of visiting twice in recent years and it is truly one of the m
89 Post contains links Dhefty : EKGOLD, you sound quite naive about a very troubling problem that continues to exist in many countries of the world. Check out the following referenc
90 Post contains images Flydubai : Of course! EY= Etihad Airways
91 Post contains images AirRyan : You can bank on it. The US wasn't the only ones selling arms to Saudi Arabia. Besides, the House of Saud is an oligarchy at best and has done little
92 Post contains images Mrniji : I fully agree. But freedom of speech does not mean that you have to make a fool out of yourself in public
93 Post contains images Scbriml : Not oil, gas. Gas is Qatar's future. They have rather a lot of it. Hmm, that's why Airbus and Boeing are having such a tough year! With the damage do
94 PM : "unbiased media"? Wow. So you don't live in the States after all?
95 Zoheb : What do u think u're U. S. was like after 60 years of independence. They were all killing each other over slavery and blindly searching for gold.
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