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Manchester Airport Disaster 1985  
User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9979 times:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4170948.stm

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/v...eg=G-BGJL&airline=British+Airtours
http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-bakt28m.shtml

Today marks the 20 years since an accident that changed the aviation industry (if not changed, certainly made them move a lot faster) to implement so many different safety regulations


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Photo © Howard Chaloner



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Photo © Derek Ferguson



[Edited 2005-08-22 10:32:18]

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCapital146 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2125 posts, RR: 44
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9923 times:

Incredible to think 20 years have passed since that horrific incident, I can remember it happening so clearly even though I was only a child at the time.

Like you say, a number of significant safety regulations were implemented, particularly on UK airlines as a direct result of this tragedy, let's hope that the lives which have been saved because of these actions offered some kind of comfort to those who lost loved ones that day.



Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9904 times:

Quoting Capital146 (Reply 1):
I can remember it happening so clearly even though I was only a child at the time.

Pull the other one Dave Big grin

Seriously, it was a tragedy which has made air travel just that bit safer. Shame things like that have to happen before beancounters sit up and take notice.

Andy  old 



Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9883 times:

Skidmarks, u definatly would remember this one Smile

I do remember it coming on the news and the family being shocked when it happened and i was only 4 at the time.

I have never forgotten this one


User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9849 times:

I do remember it, and the pictures shown at the time. The arguments afterwards coupled with the hurried development of smokehoods and such were very public.

But, it did stimulate the safety culture and, although people pay lip service to the on-board briefings, it also beefed up the airlines safety responsibilities.

As it was, I was in the RAF at that time going through a divorce and civilian air travel was something that happened to other people Big grin

Andy  old 



Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
User currently offlineACEregular From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 676 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9777 times:

I remember it well too, even though I was fairly young. I think the image of a burnt out plane is a graphic one for any individual and will stick in the mind easily. I think the fact it happened so close to home in the peak of summer when lots of people just like them were off on their holidays. I remember also watching the documentary a few years ago about the survivors, one lady going on holiday with a girlfriend (I think she was the furthestmost survivor from the rear). She was terrified to fly after, but I read an article not long ago about her taking her first flight since the disaster with her Daughter. they flew on Excel Airways (B738) to Malaga. Excel were by all accounts very good and let her have a good look about the plane before she commited herself to flight.

Lets not forget the unlucky 53 passengers and 2 cabin crew who were lost that day.


User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9713 times:

I recall that evacuation in that tightly configured 737-200 wasnt easy and that accident resulted in similarly high density configured 732s having to either remove a seat at the exit row or increase pitch along the exit row to facilitate emergency evacuation.

User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 9678 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 6):
I recall that evacuation in that tightly configured 737-200 wasnt easy and that accident resulted in similarly high density configured 732s having to either remove a seat at the exit row or increase pitch along the exit row to facilitate emergency evacuation.

I cannot recall this but I do recall that the installation of emergency lighting along the floor to guide passengers to the exits was one of the recommendations of the report of the accident.

For anybody wishing to read the report of the accident here is the link
www.aaib.gov.uk/sites/aaib/cms_resources/dft_avsafety_pdf_502609.pdf

I remember this accident very well. I arrived at work that day, completely unaware that there had been any crash, and a colleague told me as soon as he came through the door that a plane had caught fire at Manchester, killing all on board. I immediately tuned into the news (internet was not common in those days) to find out more information and I remember clearly the headlines of the midday papers showing a picture of the burning 737 and the headline "54 survive inferno on holiday jet".



MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 9634 times:

Some years afterwards I flew a BY 732 and the emergency exit rws had the window seats missing, so there was just the centre and aisle seats at the overwing exit rows.

I thought I read somewhere that this was done to fulfill a requirement bought about by the reccommendations of the Manchester accident.

Somehow, I cannot see BY or any other charter airline doing away with 2 seats unless they were forced into it!


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 9597 times:

This crash was the reason NG 737s have their overwing exits on a hinge by the way. 737s don't have a bulkhead in front of the left hand side of row 1 anymore, and a wider gap for the overwing exits, thanks to this crash.

What was amazing (to me) is how a modern (at the time) aircraft at a busy airport with significant fire-fighting capability involved in a moderate pooled-fuel fire with half of the doors working and light wind resulted in 50+ deaths.


User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9582 times:

Before the reccomendations regarding access to exits were implemented, evacuating a 130 seat 737-200 wasnt an easy task, particularly if one or more of the exits were unavailable for a time, as in the manchester accident.

Many UK charter airlines chose to remove the window seat at the emergency exit row to improve access in the wake of the accident. that was a positive to come out of that horrific accident.


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9550 times:

http://baaa-acro.com/photos/B737-200-British%20Airtours-Manchester.jpg



The latter picture is the scariest, in my opinion. Anyone familiar with MAN knows that view well - the pier is what is now the end of pier B.

Edit: Note the two Orion 737s!

[Edited 2005-08-22 15:37:56]

User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9528 times:

Yes, haunting sight indeed. Look on the apron, sign of the times a Dan Air 1-11, 732 and my namesake, an orion 732 and 733.

I think of all those people trapped in the claustrophobic confines of that 732, one minute excited and looking forward to a well deserved holiday, the next trapped in a smoke filled hell.


User currently offlineZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1413 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9471 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 9):
This crash was the reason NG 737s have their overwing exits on a hinge by the way

Do they also have the missing window seats at the exits too? I noticed those missing when travelling with a 6' 6" friend on a couple of U2 flights shortly after they began to receive the 73Gs, however recently there seemed to be window seats all along. How come this was the case? Or was I mistaken?


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9424 times:

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 13):
Do they also have the missing window seats at the exits too?

I certainly think BA made their 737s 2x2 directly adjacent the overwing exits, but easyJet and Ryanair (and I presume all the low-cost airlines) tend to stick with the 3x3. I think the biggest bit of layout legislation to come from this crash was an increase in the pitch of the overwing row. G-BGJL only had 32'' pitch at the exit row.


User currently offlineTIMC From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 9379 times:

I was only 2 at the time! Don't remember any of it...

Its good that it had such an impact on safety though, its unfortunate that lessons have to be learnt in that way.


User currently offlineLeisurejet From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 43 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 9334 times:

I remember this accident really well and for two reasons...

Firstly - At the time of the crash, I was living and working in Ottawa, Canada and had just boarded an Eastern Provincial Airways (now, there is a blast from the passed) Boeing 737-200 (same aircraft type as this) and after settling into my economy seat, was handed the morning paper (yes, those were the days) and saw on the bottom of the front page, a picture and the article of this crash...

Bad enough, I was about the fly on the same aircraft type, but when I read on further, I realised it had happened at my "home airport" as I am from Manchester in England originally and as you can imagine, this really hit me sideways and I have to say, despite all the flying I had done, I felt for the first time, somewhat apprehensive. Anyhow, the flight was just fine and my time (my first visit) in Halifax was far better than I anticipated...

Secondly - Several years later, when I was living and working back in the UK again, I was asked by the travel company I was working with at the time to arrange a multitude of "first time flyer" flights from various parts of the country, one of which though, was to go from Manchester.

As it transpired, one of the passengers, who was wanting to take this flight (and thankfully I was informed prior to the day of the actual flight) was one of the passengers who luckily escaped (although not totally unharmed) from this aircraft and this was to be the first time that he had try to take a flight since then, feeling that this was the best way to try and deal with it.

Arrangements were made for a doctor from the medical facility at Manchester Airport and a pilot from the airline operating the flights (and am sorry, for the life of me I cannot remember which airline this was) to accompany him on the flight and talk him though the whole process and procedure and he did it, albeit sweating profusely for the first 15 minutes and since then (as far as I am aware) he was able to fly again...

So, as you can imagine, this crash certainly did make an impression on me, in more ways than one...


User currently offlineTrident2e From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 9299 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 9):
737s don't have a bulkhead in front of the left hand side of row 1 anymore

I was in seat 1A on an AF 737 recently, and the bulkhead was still there.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13218 posts, RR: 77
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9225 times:

I remember it all too well.

At work at BA at LHR, in those days, pre e-mail, pre internet, VDU's in BA (in our case purely internal to check the spares stock system), had the facility to send a message to another one if you had the receiving VDU's number.
Mostly used by enthusiasts reporting a rare type at LHR, send the occasional jokey insult to someone you knew!

But on that day these one of two line messages at the bottom of the screen started appearing, about a 737 a MAN, followed by how it was on fire, then finally a rising death tool.


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 9182 times:

Quoting Trident2e (Reply 17):
I was in seat 1A on an AF 737 recently, and the bulkhead was still there.

The CAA certainly don't allow it for British-registered aircraft anymore.


User currently offlineMyt332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 70
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 9173 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 11):
The latter picture is the scariest, in my opinion. Anyone familiar with MAN knows that view well

Yes I agree, I saw that and it made me sit up. It's hard to envison that actually happening at such a familiar place to me.



One Life, Live it.
User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9113 times:

It is a very recognisable spot. But just THINK if that happened now. The avp is right opposite to where it happened  Sad

[Edited 2005-08-22 21:27:51]

User currently offlineDemoose From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 1952 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9110 times:

That is the view I have from my office. It's a very striking image. I flew from MAN to Corfu on a 737-200 a month before this disaster, it still makes my mum scared when she hears about it.

Mark



Take a ride...fly across the sky
User currently offlineTrident2e From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9001 times:

I flew on that very aircraft just a couple of weeks before the accident. The Aviation Society in Manchester chartered it for a day trip to Fairford (I think it was Fairford). After arrival the aircraft did a display for the crowd then took us back home to MAN later in the evening.

User currently offlineACEregular From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 676 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8852 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 19):
Quoting Trident2e (Reply 17):
I was in seat 1A on an AF 737 recently, and the bulkhead was still there.

The CAA certainly don't allow it for British-registered aircraft anymore.

I have boarded 737's of BA, BY, XLA and found the forward left hand bulkhead still in place, I think on some planes it looks smart as it acts as a vestibule keeping the cabin clear of the elements while boarding takes place. Whether practical in an emergency is debatable but they certainly are still allowed on UK registered aircraft.


25 Trekster : Smae with the 735 i think it was i flew back up to manchester, i was in teh b/h positon in the window seat, i looked over and there were was a bulkhea
26 Philb : Until withdrawal, at least one easyJet 737, G-EZYA, had a front left hand bulkhead in place. Last flew on it LPL-GVA in 1999 but many times before. T
27 Philb : The day before the accident was a slow day at Manchester. I was on holiday at the time and, the afternoon before, went down to the unofficial viewing
28 Philb : Going back to this point, I've just read the AAIB report's precis regarding the primary cause. To quote: "As the aircraft turned off, a wind of 7 kno
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