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What Would US Need To Start South American Ops?  
User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Posted (9 years 4 months 21 hours ago) and read 3155 times:

I know that flights to South America are slot restricted to only AA, CO, DL and UA but what would US have to do to get a PHL-GIG or PHL-GRU route approved? Is there a waiting list or could they be bought off of an other airline? Maybe there is a chance of deregulation to South America in the future.

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 18 hours ago) and read 3091 times:

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Thread starter):
I know that flights to South America are slot restricted to only AA, CO, DL and UA but what would US have to do to get a PHL-GIG or PHL-GRU route approved? Is there a waiting list or could they be bought off of an other airline? Maybe there is a chance of deregulation to South America in the future.

There are only two unallocated US-Brazil slots. They could ask for those, but there is no use flying twice weekly. Other than that, they could ask for an exemption. The US gov't would likely give it approval, the Brazilian government would likely not. The US and Brazil really need to agree on a new air treaty.

None the less, just as important as slots, they would need a market. PHL-GRU? When an ERJ can make it that far, then US Airways will talk about it.



a.
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 18 hours ago) and read 3091 times:

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Thread starter):
I know that flights to South America are slot restricted to only AA, CO, DL and UA but what would US have to do to get a PHL-GIG or PHL-GRU route approved? Is there a waiting list or could they be bought off of an other airline? Maybe there is a chance of deregulation to South America in the future.

South America is a big place, you know.  Wink

It's true that there are restrictive bilaterals with many countries, and US would have some difficulty flying to GRU, or GIG, or EZE, or BOG.

But US could easily start flying to LIM, or CCS, or SCL, or plenty of other places.

(The only one likely, though, is FLL-LIM, which has been rumored for a good while now.)

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
None the less, just as important as slots, they would need a market.

An even bigger problem, for deep South America, is that they're fresh out of planes that can make it down there.  Silly



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 18 hours ago) and read 3067 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
None the less, just as important as slots, they would need a market. PHL-GRU? When an ERJ can make it that far, then US Airways will talk about it.

What if US flew FLL-BSB with a 319, and codeshared with Varig for connecting flights to Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, and other places?

edited for spelling changes

[Edited 2005-08-22 23:49:52]


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8974 posts, RR: 39
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 18 hours ago) and read 3042 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 3):
What if US flew FLL-BSB with a 319, and codeshared with Varig for connecting flights to Sao Paolo, Rio de Janiero, and other places?

That'd be kinda nuts. Six or seven hours in an A319...? Plus the heavy GRU/GIG-MIA competition...

But it's an idea, maybe even with a stop in MAO.

Btw, it's Sao Paulo. Common mistake, no big deal. And you switched the "ei" in Rio de Janeiro.

Sorry for being picky...

Cheers,
PPVRA

[Edited 2005-08-22 23:48:31]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineSupa7e7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 17 hours ago) and read 2996 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 2):
An even bigger problem, for deep South America, is that they're fresh out of planes that can make it down there. Silly

US has plenty of more or less spare 767-200ERs all winter long.


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 17 hours ago) and read 2979 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 3):
What if US flew FLL-BSB with a 319, and codeshared with Varig for connecting flights to Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, and other places?

In addition to the idea being of dubious quality, the problem remains that there is a dearth of available U.S.-Brazil frequencies, whether you plan on using them to GRU or GIG or BSB or CNF or wherever.

It's been rumored that AA plans to attempt to get authority to be able to fly to destinations other than GRU/GIG on an extrabilateral basis, but it's yet to happen.

Quoting Supa7e7 (Reply 5):
US has plenty of more or less spare 767-200ERs all winter long.

Well, yes, US does have a few spare 762s that it sends to the islands during the winter, but one would assume that US would not open deep South America as a seasonal destination.

(In reality, of course, if US really wanted to fly PHL-GRU right now and could get the slots, it would just can Ireland or whatnot. But don't hold your breath.)



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 17 hours ago) and read 2963 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 6):
the problem remains that there is a dearth of available U.S.-Brazil frequencies

Per what our LatAm expert in reply 1 says, there are two frequencies available. This could be a way to get into the FLL-BSB market on a twice-weekly basis, and then if somebody pulls their service, freeing up more slots, surely US Airways would be in a prime position to acquire the other five to have daily service.



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 17 hours ago) and read 2954 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 7):
Per what our LatAm expert in reply 1 says, there are two frequencies available.

I never said otherwise.  Yeah sure

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 7):
This could be a way to get into the FLL-BSB market on a twice-weekly basis

Now there's a winning idea.  Silly



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineBSBIsland From Brazil, joined Jul 2005, 379 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 17 hours ago) and read 2947 times:

Sorry for my ignorance, but doesn´t US Airways have a hub in FLL?

I think FLL would have the market to some Latin American cities, but the problem is, as stated above, the slot restrictions in many countries. In Brazil, secondary cities nowadays would just work for MIA and MAYBE NYC. FLL being close to MIA might work, but I don´t know. They are a Star partner, so that´s an advantage in Brazil. For other countries, I´m not sure about the market, but FLL-LIM, FLL-CCS doesn´t seem bad. PHL maybe would work for GRU ( depending a lot on connections), but I don´t think it´s ever going to happen in the near future...

And what about NW? I always wondered why they don´t fly to anywhere in South America. I know they code-share with CO (or used to) but that´s it.

Rgs


User currently offlineArcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2411 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 12 hours ago) and read 2831 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 2):
But US could easily start flying to LIM, or CCS, or SCL, or plenty of other places

With AA and DL increasing frequencies, I don't see we have market for another carrier to PHL. Remember we don't even have a JFK direct service, so that would be a start...

Regards )( ARCANO



in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 12 hours ago) and read 2804 times:

Quoting BSBIsland (Reply 9):
Sorry for my ignorance, but doesn´t US Airways have a hub in FLL?

US has a focus city at FLL, with their international flights catering primarily to the O&D market and not connections. Currently, they only offer daily domestic flights to their other hubs/focus cities, with Express flights to MCO/EYW. The international routes are CUN/KIN/SDQ. Additional destinations can be reached via codeshares on partner airlines. Some new routes, including some that US previously offered earlier this year, will be announced soon.

Quoting Arcano (Reply 10):
With AA and DL increasing frequencies, I don't see we have market for another carrier to PHL. Remember we don't even have a JFK direct service, so that would be a start...

I didn't say that US to SCL would be a good idea. Just the opposite, it would be a total disaster. All I said was that there's nothing stopping US from flying to a number of South American markets, and that SCL is one of them.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineCltguy From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 11 hours ago) and read 2777 times:

All US needs to start South American Ops is clearance Clarence.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26795 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 11 hours ago) and read 2776 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 3):
What if US flew FLL-BSB with a 319, and codeshared with Varig for connecting flights to Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, and other places?

At 3135nm, US would have a fun time trying to get the A319 to hit Brasilia every day



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineStarCruiser From United States of America, joined May 2004, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 4 hours ago) and read 2714 times:

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Thread starter):
I know that flights to South America are slot restricted to only AA, CO, DL and UA but what would US have to do to get a PHL-GIG or PHL-GRU route approved? Is there a waiting list or could they be bought off of an other airline? Maybe there is a chance of deregulation to South America in the future.

How about we wait to see if the newly merged company survives first? Flying to far flung areas of the world is a nice idea, but I'd suggest they get their house in order first. One of their biggest problems from my experience is that they need to work on the attitude of their CSRs and baggage handlers in PHL. There is no excuse for the way they treat Pax. I suggest their CEO experience it firsthand and let some heads roll.


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