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NW & Union Disagree On Strike Impact On Day 3  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3109 posts, RR: 10
Posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6368 times:

Courtesy: KSTP-TV

Video Report

http://kstp.dayport.com/viewer/viewerpage.php?Art_ID=162742/

79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3109 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6334 times:

Courtesy: KSFY-TV

Delays and Cancellations Pile Up for Northwest Airlines

http://www.ksfy.com/Stories/Story.cfm?SID=4258


User currently offlineOkie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3065 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6333 times:

Let us see NW says bring your cell phone because of delays and cancellations to call the 800 number because the lines are long at the counters. Bring snacks and water. Does not sound like things are going to smoothly.


Okie


User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3109 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6261 times:

Courtesy: KARE-TV

First Business Travel Day A Test For NWA

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=105429

Video Report:

http://www.kare11.com/player.aspx?aid=17663&bw=


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11712 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6230 times:

Despite the union's claims, I still think it's pretty darn impressive that NW is even getting as many flights into the air, let alone on time, as they are. Granted, their schedule completion and on-time numbers have almost certainly dropped considerably since pre-strike, and have probably deteriorated somewhat today versus the lighter weekend schedule, but if NW is still managing to complete 98% of their flights, even if only just over 50% are on time -- as some say, that is still pretty good (and, to my knowledge, unprecedented) considering that the airline's entire workforce of mechanics is out on strike.

User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3109 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6191 times:

Courtesy: The Detroit News

Delays Slow Northwest Fliers

http://www.detnews.com/2005/business/0508/22/A01-288448.htm


User currently offlineJano From Slovakia, joined Jan 2004, 827 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6182 times:

And all of them working at NW and keeping NW running deserve Big Respect and Thank you from us, NW flyers  bigthumbsup  I cannot wait to fly NW to EU in October!


The Widget Air Line :)
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6164 times:

I would expect nothing less from the news media. They NEVER get the story straight. They put their own spin on the story. Most news outlets, like these tend to put the union spin on the story.

Like this story from KARE in MSP (NWA Headquarters).

"KARE 11's Joe Fryer performed his own on-time check on Monday, using information found on Northwest's Web site.

He looked at 57 flights on Monday morning and early afternoon. Those were flights between Minneapolis and Detroit, Memphis, Las Vegas, Chicago, New York and Denver.

Of those 57 flights, 29 flights, or 51 percent, were on time or early.

Another 14 flights, or 25 percent, were between 15 and 30 minutes late and 10 flights were more than 30 minutes late.

Four flights were cancelled."

There were more than 57 flights throughout Monday morning and early afternoon that departed from MSP.

When you take a hand selected sample, you can skew the numbers exactly as you want them. Why wasn't departures to BOS, SFO, LAX, DFW, Washington, Orlando, MIA, ALT, PDX, SEA, Spokane, or other cities included in the story? Why no international departures? Is it because those departures would have skewed the numbers into the normal range?

The news media is scum and they think they are talking to idiots. That is another thing they consistantly get wrong.


User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3109 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6061 times:

Courtesy: WTHR-TV - Indianapolis

Affects Of Northwest Strike May Worsen

http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=3748160&nav=9TaidZv0

Video Report:

http://www.wthr.com/global/video/pop...=info&playerVersion=1&rnd=40615960


User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5017 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6011 times:

Its the old story, from the Unions viewpoint the glass is half empty, from the companies viewpoint it is half full.
Only the customer from their experiences can decide who is right.


User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3109 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5996 times:

Courtesy: Aircraft Maintenance Technology

Northwest Airlines On-time Performance Drops to 50 Percent Over Weekend, Independent Business Travel Expert Reports

http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=1728

[Edited 2005-08-23 02:37:44]

User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5950 times:

I think what we are seeing here is sensationalism at its best with the media.
NW is doing quite a job flying as many planes as they are. The longer this goes, the fewer problems will be encountered and the smoother it will get. The union is close to the end here. The next 10 days will tell if NW will fly on or buckle to the AMFA union. If the planes are flying come labor day, the war is over and NW will be declared the winner. Time is on managements side.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineSolehibob From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5934 times:

You miss the point. NW mechs have possibly won already. Their simply staying out of negotiations limits NW mgmt's ability to move forward with the other work groups. No further concessions means no further savings means NW goes into Chapter.

hence the union saying they would rather see NW in court than concede even if they get the same package

[Edited 2005-08-23 02:59:46]

User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5902 times:

Quoting Solehibob (Reply 12):
No further concessions means no further savings means NW goes into Chapter.

Actually, NWA *has* gotten its concessions - the new mech plan will deliver the same or greater level of savings that the airline wanted from AMFA.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5884 times:

So they go to Chapter 11, so what? It doesn't change today to back to yesterday.
AMFA keeps walking. You think the judge orders them back with the pre-8-20 contract? I don't think so, scooter.
If the company goes chapter 11, they(NWA) have leverage over the workers, union or non union. Ask the United people.
AMFA is almost in a no-win situation.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offline242 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 498 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5883 times:

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 11):
The longer this goes, the fewer problems will be encountered and the smoother it will get.

It really hasn't even started yet. The replacement mechanics are loading each aircraft with MEL items to get the planes out of the gate. These MELs must be fixed within a certain time frame or the item "drops dead", and the aircraft is grounded, no matter where it's located. The FAA occasionally allows an extension, but under the circumstances, with the MEL count likely through the roof, I doubt any leeway will given. These MEL items are like ticking time bombs.

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 11):
If the planes are flying come labor day, the war is over and NW will be declared the winner. Time is on managements side.

Rumor has it the replacement mechanics contract is up on September 1, although I can't confirm it.


User currently offlineDerik737 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 333 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5856 times:

Does any ACARS hobbiest from the west coast have a copy of this message in the subject matter below (posted from another message board)?

Hey TM,

Is someone or someones actively looking into the alleged B757 incidences previously refered to? ie; IFSD/low oil-no caps???

Something like that would be a silver bullet. It could bring this little drama to a close rather quickly I would think.

Any more Info???
I have been told that the incident is being aggressively pursued by AMFA officials, and that NWA is equally adamant to keep the fiasco quiet. Thus far I have obtained documentation that at least part of the alleged incident did in fact occur: AC 58xx, "RT ENG OIL QTY IS DROPPING ENROUTE. WILL REQUIRE A POSITIVE FIX BEFORE DEPARTING SFO. ADVISE MC OF FINDINGS-THNX" And...it was an ETOPS flight. - TM

User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5852 times:

In the history of this country, the only prolonged strikes I can recall where the union won the battle, is UAW vs. the big three.
There are none in the airline industry where the union clearly won the battle. They pretty much all ended in compromise.
This battle MAY be a first win for an airline union but I am like a baseball manager and I play the percentages.
I have to say management will prevail. I DID NOT say I am rooting for management but its where I place my bets and that's not with the AMFA.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offline242 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 498 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5827 times:

Quoting Derik737 (Reply 16):
Any more Info???
I have been told that the incident is being aggressively pursued by AMFA officials, and that NWA is equally adamant to keep the fiasco quiet. Thus far I have obtained documentation that at least part of the alleged incident did in fact occur: AC 58xx, "RT ENG OIL QTY IS DROPPING ENROUTE. WILL REQUIRE A POSITIVE FIX BEFORE DEPARTING SFO. ADVISE MC OF FINDINGS-THNX" And...it was an ETOPS flight. - TM

I have gotten the same info through the grapevine. It's unconfirmed, however it seems a 757 made an unplanned stop due to both engines low on oil. Seems someone managed to leave both oil caps off. Could have been nasty.


User currently offlineDerik737 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 333 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5821 times:

Quoting 242 (Reply 18):
Seems someone managed to leave both oil caps off. Could have been nasty.

Well if it's an ETOPS flight, it would legally have to be 2 individuals leaving the caps off, correct?


User currently offline242 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 498 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5782 times:

Quoting Derik737 (Reply 19):
Well if it's an ETOPS flight, it would legally have to be 2 individuals leaving the caps off, correct?

That's right, however, if this rumor has any truth to it, I'd bet it was only one individual responsible for both caps, which would be in direct violation of ETOPS regs. NWA had better be careful, losing their ETOPS certification would certainly be the beginning of the end.


User currently offlineFlyBoeing From United States of America, joined May 2000, 866 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5779 times:

I'd like a look at that message board if possible too. If this is happening it instantly discredits the replacements, which puts the airline in Chapter 11 right quick.

Any news agencies pick up the item?

Quoting Derik737 (Reply 16):
Is someone or someones actively looking into the alleged B757 incidences previously refered to? ie; IFSD/low oil-no caps???

Something like that would be a silver bullet. It could bring this little drama to a close rather quickly I would think.

Any more Info???
I have been told that the incident is being aggressively pursued by AMFA officials, and that NWA is equally adamant to keep the fiasco quiet. Thus far I have obtained documentation that at least part of the alleged incident did in fact occur: AC 58xx, "RT ENG OIL QTY IS DROPPING ENROUTE. WILL REQUIRE A POSITIVE FIX BEFORE DEPARTING SFO. ADVISE MC OF FINDINGS-THNX" And...it was an ETOPS flight. - TM


User currently offlineLUVRSW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 498 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5571 times:

At what point does NW win? How long can the Mechs strike before NW says "you are all fired!" 30 days? 60 days?

User currently offlineFlyBoeing From United States of America, joined May 2000, 866 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5549 times:

Hey Derik 737, I found an AP story that ties to your 757 incident...

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3752902

MAUI, Hawaii Mechanical problems have caused trouble on a Northwest Airlines flight to Hawaii.

The airline is in the third day of a mechanics union strike.

Hal Myers of the Air Line Pilots Association says Flight 95 from Seattle to Maui was diverted to Honolulu yesterday after a gage showed a loss of oil.

Myers says the pilots had to throttle the engine back to idle, meaning the two-engine 757 had to make the rest of the trip on power from just one engine.

There were two reported mechanical problems on Northwest flights on the first day of the strike Saturday.


Short of somebody actually dying, this is not looking good. The scabs put 100+ people's lives in danger, not to mention Northwest's ETOPS certification. Heck, if all the oil spilled then the engine must have gotten wrecked too.

If the FAA starts sniffing around they could shut down all the twin-engine overwater flights, which means all the A330 service to Europe and Asia plus most of the Hawaii service.


User currently offline242 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 498 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5544 times:

Quoting LUVRSW (Reply 22):
At what point does NW win?

I don't think anyone will "win".

Quoting LUVRSW (Reply 22):
How long can the Mechs strike before NW says "you are all fired!" 30 days? 60 days?

Contracts never expire under the Railway Labor Act, and this being a legal strike under the RLA, it can go on forever in theory. At this point, either the mechs or management will have to reach an agreement, or the company will go CH 11 and the judge will decide what needs to be done.


25 LUVRSW : What is ETOPS? Thanks
26 Typhaerion : Don't let the joksters get you. It stands for "Extended Twin-Engine Operations." This is an FAA program that certifies carriers to fly twin engine ai
27 Post contains links Jano : http://gc.kls2.com/faq.html#$etops http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETOPS
28 LegendDC9 : It's really to early to tell. In the mean time, Mechanics are not getting paid and the airline is more or less running. I'd say that for right now, N
29 Typhaerion : Man I love Wikipedia...thank you for those links. They help.
30 L-188 : I think the union is in trouble. NW is clearly showing that they are able to run a fairly complete schedual despite them. The most critical hours of a
31 Ikramerica : First, they were losing oil so they shut it down to idle. Second, it was not two engines as claimed by the union email machine, so they didn't "viola
32 Typhaerion : This might be true of a pilot or f/a strike. In the case of a mechanic strike, the buffer of negative effect will take time to build. I say this comp
33 Post contains links Derik737 : " target=_blank>http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.a...52902 It sounds like this was not the incident in question... Here's a newpaper article about t
34 Tornado82 : Big winners to be, if this drags on for the long-term: HP/US, UA, DL, CO, WN, FL, B6, F9... I think you get my drift with what I'm getting at here, u
35 242 : Events that may put an airlines ETOPS program in jeopardy are often not reported completely. Pilots are well aware what would happen to the airline i
36 Traindriver : Not being from the airline industry, what are MEL's?
37 Fleet Service : Funny, all the senior men I work with will generally work the young kids under the table. The younger ones tend to be the lazy ones,busy yapping on t
38 242 : MEL refers to the Minimum Equipment List. The short story is that not all of an airliners equipment has to work. If a malfunctioning item appears on
39 FlyBoeing : True. Union employees make mistakes too, and probably the union covers for them also. What I'm suggesting is the PR impact of this happening so soon
40 FlyBoeing : OK, I couldn't resist. THANKS LOADS for the info on what an MEL means. I didn't know the way the FAA treated these items. Do you think that the curren
41 Traindriver : For 242, Thanks, appreciate the info.
42 242 : Probably not, the FAA has always been a 'tombstone counter'. They wait until a disaster happens before anything is done.
43 Post contains images AndrewUber : No, YOU missed the point. The mechanics are on strike, and the airline had a 98% completion rate today. Looks like the airline is winning. The mechan
44 242 : Enjoy it while it lasts. As long as NWA isn't in Chapter 11, AMFA members have a legal right to return to work and kick your "boys" to the street.
45 UALdispatch : If the rumor about 800+ MEL's and building is correct then you and your boys will have your hands full. Of course its just a rumor but is something I
46 AndrewUber : Union workers are not likely to "return to work", as they think it's more productive to stand on the street and bitch about having their wages lowere
47 UALdispatch : Oh i see so this is only about taking a paycut? Perhaps it was just an oversight but the layoff of %50 of their members had something to do with it a
48 242 : Two of the most desirable employers for an aviation mechanic to work for are Southwest (AMFA) and UPS (IBT). Once someone is blacklisted as a scab, t
49 Post contains images Fleet Service : Okay, so they got rid of 4,400+ employees... You conveniently forget to address the unrelenting price of Jet-A, the lack of pricing power by any of t
50 Post contains images 242 : 98% of what schedule? On a side note, I had four things to do today: Go to work, stop at the store for a few things, visit the post office, and make
51 Post contains links SHUPirate1 : http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/2288767/ Just for a summary of what that is saying, of the 421 mainline Northwest fli
52 Shenzhen : If the engine was losing oil and the flight crew were on top of it, as I assume they were (over the Pacific), the prudent thing to do is pull it back
53 Derik737 : I wonder if the second incident (which hasn't been in the press to my knowledge) was the same aircraft (possibly the day before)... The date on the w
54 Frequentflyer : The Union has also said they want to screw NW. Shame on them. Agreed, not to mention their disastrous PR. In this day and age, nobody has sympathy fo
55 TOLtommy : Interesting.... I'm sitting in the WorldClub in the middle of the DTW terminal. My flight is still on time, although I did see about 6 cancellation p
56 Cloudy : Its good to see a thread dominated by actual informed discussion of events rather than a labor vs. management flamewar. Please do not consider my ques
57 KC135TopBoom : A union workers never make a mistake that cost people their lives? Why do you say the replacement mechanics are less experienced and proficent? Simpl
58 Post contains images Frequentflyer : No disrespect intended, but that question just proved you have no idea how a Government Regulation Agency works, FAA or other.
59 Typhaerion : I didn't mean that they were inexperienced mechanics, I meant that they were inexperienced with NWA's fleet. You can be trained as a mechanic, but it
60 Post contains links KarlB737 : Courtesy: KARE-TV Mechanics Optimistic NWA Will Return To Negotiating Table http://www.kare11.com/news/strike/strike_article.aspx?storyid=105430 Video
61 242 : Because they are. The most junior, least experienced NWA mechanic has 17+ years with the company. Have you seen any reports of the replacement worker
62 ORDflier : Just arrived from Detroit (but not on NWA). I arrived early at the airport to avoid lines and was able to get thru quickly. I expected to see hundreds
63 Greasemonkey : Scabs might have experience on the aircraft but every mechanic will tell you that actually fixing the problem is only 25% of the battle. The other 75%
64 Derik737 : Please clarify further. Are you saying the FAA would never turn the cheek?
65 Post contains links KarlB737 : Public's Perception Of Strike Fallout Key To Impact Courtesy: KARE-TV http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=105489 Video Report: http:/
66 Redtailmsp : In response to 242 in replys 15 and 38, he is correct that the MELS are like ticking time bombs due to their time frame. Many MELs have a ten day limi
67 Derik737 : Where were the managers at this time, out getting trained? Isn't the point of having managers on duty to make sure items get properly worked on and c
68 Post contains links Jano : ...and flight completion Per http://www.nwa.com/features/laborupdate/index.html On Monday, August 22, Northwest was scheduled to operate 1,473 domest
69 FlyBoeing : Derik737: I didn't know about the 30-60 day timeframe to get stuff repaired by contractors. That's insane. Redtail: One other thing to think about in
70 KarlB737 : This may mean something or it may mean nothing. I don't have a subscription to Wall Street Journal On-Line. If anyone does it may mean something or no
71 FlyBoeing : Can't copy and paste the entire article, but here is the crux of the matter: Northwest is ONLY REPORTING CANCELLATIONS - not delays. For Monday they c
72 KarlB737 : FlyBoeing thank you for investigating this matter for the forum.
73 Derik737 : JoeSentMe.biz is reporting 37.5% on time for Monday, August 22nd according to his survey of NWA's flights. NWA has stated this his survey is "unscient
74 SHUPirate1 : As mentioned in Reply 51, I did my own survey and of the 421 Northwest flights I looked at for Monday, 202 of them, or 47.98%, was on-time. While you
75 SHUPirate1 : BTW, keep in mind that with weather affecting many of the nation's largest airports today (ATL, BOS, CLT, EWR, LGA, SFO, and TPA all had GDP's at some
76 LUVRSW : These are A-Net Hall of Fame quotes!! Nice job 242...you are the man!
77 Frequentflyer : Nothing is certain as they are not independent. However this would be contrary to their statutes. Look at their record, they're pretty clean, and nob
78 TOLtommy : Brancatelli is only looking at selected flights, not all NW flights. I'm sure if I wanted to, I could do the samer thing and make the on time percent
79 Post contains links KarlB737 : Courtesy: The Detroit Free Press Union, NWA Debate Metro Departures http://www.freep.com/money/business/nwa24e_20050824.htm
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