Leisurejet From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 43 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7619 times:
I also noted these flights from Stewart International (SWF) to New York City(JFK), but am afraid I don't know how the loads were back then.
I would think that if jetBlue were considering flying anywhere from Stewart International (SWF), then they would probably consider one of their bases such as Boston (BOS), Washington (IAD) or Fort Lauderdale (FLL) in the east or Oakland (OAK) and Long Beach (LGB) in the west.
It does though seem that today Allegiant Air, will announce service from SWF to Orlando-Sanford (SFB) so things are looking up on the schedule flight side for the airport.
Traindriver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7438 times:
I'm guessing the loads probably weren't there. I don't feel
that Metro North had much to do with it. As it is, just to
get to the nearest train station, it's about a 30 min. bus
ride to Beacon, then another hour plus to G.C.T.
After that it's probably an hour or more depending on
traffic on the overly congested NYC highways to JFK
via the bus on 42nd St. Mass transit from the Hudson Valley
region to JFK doesn't cut it. If I remember correctly, the
TW service was short lived.
Now it's probably easier to drive to ALB or HPN as WN
serves both locations than it is to tavel to LGA or JFK.
If the service was profitable, AA would still be serving JFK
instead of just flying ERJ's to ORD.
JFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2664 posts, RR: 5 Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7400 times:
U have to remember, flying was a lot different back then. Regionals did not exist, instead commuter airlines fed major airline hubs. It was very easy to fly from SWF to JFK or even ALB to JFK on Beech 1900s, J31s, or even Saabs. It is not that easy to fly these routes with regional jets.
If you look at Eagle's NE operation, or even Express Jet, you see all jets. Routes like this (that carried 10 or 20 people) just aren't doable in an RJ. I believe Express Jet flew HPN to EWR for a few months prior to 9/11. Of they announced it. Either way, it just is not efficient of cost effective in the new aviation environment.
Traindriver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7342 times:
The only way Metro North could get to SWF would be via the
Port Jervis line. I know that line runs along the NY Thruway
for part of the route and continues south to I think Hoboken NJ.
I don't think they run into Penn Station so it doesn't provide a
link into NYC. It might link up somewhere with the NJ Transit
line that connects with the Newark Airport service. However
it would probably be cost prohibitive to construct that link to
SWF, I can't see NY state coming up with the cash.
JetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 5 days ago) and read 7327 times:
Well Metro North Goes into GCT in the city and LIRR goes into Penn so SWF-JFK on a train would be annoying, if they did build a SWF train station, then it would be Metro N to GCT, then subway to Penn, then LIRR to Jamaica, then AirTrain to JFK. That is 4 different train systems and you might have to change trains for Metro North. I am sure if there was a flight from SWF-JFK it wouldn't sell though (Nowadays). But with LIRR planning (Maybe, plans might go away with MTA's financial troubles), but if the plans go through, than the LIRR will have service from Jamaica to GCT which will then cut out the subway and if Metro North gets a SWF station, then that make it a little faster. Also maybe some more flights to SWF with a train station, so a better connection to the city, so it can serve as a viable north NYC airport with NYC connections.
Traindriver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 5 days ago) and read 7282 times:
The Metro North that goes into GCT runs down the east side of the Hudson.
I don't see them running that line into SWF as they would have to build a
bridge across the Hudson. With the tracks at river level, I don't see how
they could connect to the I-84 bridge that goes to Newburgh. The Port
Jervis line which goes through Middletown would probably be the rail line
that they would link up with.
Didn't they tout SWF as the NYC's area 4th airport when they started
commercial service out of there? I know they rebuilt the terminal about
6 or 7 years ago, but it's like a ghost town most of the time.
JFKviaPHX From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 194 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7256 times:
SWF to JFK would work with B6. The drive to JFK from the area is horrible unless you do it in the middle of the night. I use to live 10 mins from SWF and commute to JFK everyday. I know many people in the area that prefer SWF over everywhere else because of the ease of use. The biggest drawback to SWF are the high fares. B6 would help lower all fares out of there and make it a viable airport. I paid over $500 for a round trip from SWF to BUF in '94.
AlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 15 Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7293 times:
I know how you feel. I live in Poughkeepsie and fly out of JFK frequently. My parents are always bothered by the 2 hour drive and they sometimes take the techonic which they hate.
Jet Blue would have to maintain some very low fares on the route though to keep the loads up. Maybe $39. MTA is about $22I think per adult.
I know my dad would probably like the route, he has to teach in the city on Mondays and Wednesdays.
The 190s would be really good for the route.
I hope that Jet Blue looks into SWF more closely. I was looking at their original plans the other day and Newburgh was not menchioned but things have changed.
jetBlue's proposed network (from JFK):
Rochester, New York
Buffalo, New York
Syracuse, New York
Raleigh/Durham, North Carolina
Greensboro, North Carolina
Charlotte, North Carolina
Greenville/Spartanburg, South Carolina
Columbia, South Carolina
Charleston, South Carolina
Ft. Myers, Florida
W. Palm Beach, Florida
Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
Charleston, West Virginia
Grand Rapids, Michigan
New Orleans, Louisiana
Dallas Ft. Work, Texas
Salt Lake City, Utah
Its strange that California was never in jet Blue's orginal network plan.
JFKviaPHX From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 194 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7192 times:
I lived in New Windsor. I would leave for work at 3:45 am and make it to JFK by 5am. Coming home at 1:30pm I would get in by 3pm. If I was to try this trip any later then 5:30 am it would take me at least 2 hours plus with all the traffic. Think about SWF. You have cheap and easy parking. Most times I would park right across from the terminal. Short trip to the airport for the people of the region. Direct access to JFK and it vast network of flights. NO TRAFFIC!
Metro North to the NYC is easy, but good luck finding parking at Beacon or any other station. SWF to JFK would be a 15-20 minute gate to gate flight and will hit connection right away 3 flights a day one at 7am (with an RON) one at 1pm and one at 6pm.
Ssides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 23 Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7180 times:
I don't know if it would work ... historically, airlines have had a relatively difficult time making these ultra-short hops work, and when they do, they are almost exclusively for connecting passengers.
For example, CoEx used to fly EFD-IAH (and I believe HOU-IAH) on EMB-120s, which allowed passengers in southern Houston and Galveston to connect to CO flights at IAH better; this helped them compete with WN's operations at HOU. These flights have been discontinued, however, because they were not efficient to operate on RJs.
Also, United Express once operated BWI-IAD for passengers in Maryland to connect to UA flights; I believe this has been discontinued as well.
I think United Express still operates some of these types of flights in the Los Angeles area (maybe LAX-ONT?), but I'm not sure.
I doubt B6 would ever launch SWF-JFK. Like these other routes, it's probably an inefficient route for a jet aircraft. As a shuttle operation, security delays and costs would discourage commuters from flying it. I may be wrong, but I just don't see it happening.
AlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 15 Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7141 times:
Quoting Ssides (Reply 15): I don't know if it would work ... historically, airlines have had a relatively difficult time making these ultra-short hops work, and when they do, they are almost exclusively for connecting passengers.
AlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 15 Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7093 times:
I talked to my dad about the route (he's a regular commuter between Poughkeepsie and the city) and he says the route could probably profit for commuters if the flight landed in LGA instead of JFK since it is closer to the city.
COEWR787 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 305 posts, RR: 4 Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days ago) and read 7006 times:
Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 8): Well Metro North Goes into GCT in the city and LIRR goes into Penn so SWF-JFK on a train would be annoying, if they did build a SWF train station, then it would be Metro N to GCT,
The proposed SWF connection is from the Port Jervis Line, which runs into Hoboken through Secaucus Jct. One could change at Secaucus for Penn station and then from there to JFK either via LIRR + Airtrain via Jamaica or by the A train + Airttrain via Howard Beach/JFK Airport. If the Access to Region's Core plan is ever built then there will be direct trains from Port Jervis into Penn Station.
Aa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3338 posts, RR: 9 Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days ago) and read 6994 times:
Ok, on a bad day, how long does it take to drive into the city? An hour and a half? Now tell me, is it going to be worth showing up at the airport about an hour in advance, the twenty minutes it takes to fly to the city, and get out of JFK and into the city, say thirty minutes at best. That is one hour and fifty minutes. Plus, what happens when the flight is late? It would not work.
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16261 posts, RR: 52 Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days ago) and read 6982 times:
There have been proposals to use either the Port Jervis line or the West Shore line (currently an active freight line) to link with SWF, the plan to build a rail connection to the Metro North Hudson line via a new Tappan Zee bridge is gone.
NY has turned their support to NJ's ARC (Access to the Regions Core) tunnel project as a way to directly link West of the Hudson NY Counties with Manhattan.
Right now there are two active passenger rail lines West of the Hudson operated by NJ Transit, there's a proposal to reactivate passenger service on a third line known as the West Shore line. As it's currently planned it would run from West Havestraw to Hoboken, however the line is active with freight all the way to Albany so they could easily extend passenger service to New Burgh, and Kingston which would make my Aunt and Uncle in Woodstock happy as they drive to Rhinecliff to catch Amtrak to Manhattan.
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16261 posts, RR: 52 Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days ago) and read 6981 times:
Flights to JFK on B6 would not work because there's no local traffic, it would be people connecting to flights to FLorida. If there were a demand for flights to Florida from SWF than B6 could use their ERJ-190s to serve those routes.