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Southwest To Buy Quiet Jetliners  
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9602 posts, RR: 69
Posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11808 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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Airline says it will use 737-700s at Boeing Field

Hoping to head off concerns from neighborhoods under Boeing Field's flight paths, Southwest Airlines has committed to buying enough next-generation Boeing 737 planes to make its flights from the county-owned airport as quiet as possible.

The advanced Boeing 737-700s, which allow pilots to minimize ground noise by climbing quickly, would also enable the airline to fly a new approach over Elliott Bay that has generated few noise complaints from Magnolia and West Seattle residents


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/237635_southwest23.html

57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5146 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11770 times:

I'm confused--"WN to buy quiet Jetliners" what do you mean?


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineBOS2LAF From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11729 times:

Wait, so does this mean theyre serious about BFI this time? I thought it was all hot air.

User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11728 times:

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 1):
I'm confused--"WN to buy quiet Jetliners" what do you mean?



Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
Southwest Airlines has committed to buying enough next-generation Boeing 737 planes to make its flights from the county-owned airport as quiet as possible.

There you go  Wink

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineHomer71 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2241 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11719 times:

From the article:

"When I bought this house 11 years ago, I knew very well it was an active airport," said Angie Walls, who lives near the runway and runs a home and garden store in Georgetown. "I know the airport has to make money, but does it have to be such a monster?"

LOL, is WN flying 747's in BFI?



"On spaceship earth there are no passengers...only crew."
User currently offlineGlareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1303 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11662 times:

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 1):
I'm confused--"WN to buy quiet Jetliners" what do you mean?

Like yourself, I was shocked. WN to buy Airbus planes? Never experienced a quiet 737... Is it a joke or do they want to keep this deal quite?



There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5146 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11629 times:

LOL@Glareskin

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 3):
Southwest Airlines has committed to buying enough next-generation Boeing 737 planes to make its flights from the county-owned airport as quiet as possible.

Southwest was buying these planes regardless of access to BFI.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11629 times:

Quoting Homer71 (Reply 4):
From the article:

"When I bought this house 11 years ago, I knew very well it was an active airport," said Angie Walls, who lives near the runway and runs a home and garden store in Georgetown. "I know the airport has to make money, but does it have to be such a monster?"

My answer to her question would be "YES". You buy a house next to an airport, than you need to EXPECT noise.  banghead 

Maybe it would be good for all airlines to go back to the old water injected engines?  Wink

To bad WN retired their B-737-200s, they would be perfect for BFI.  duck 


User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9602 posts, RR: 69
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11387 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

I am sure this is just a ploy to get people to think "Hey, if we allow Southwest to serve BFI they will buy more Boeing planes..."

User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11333 times:

DRERX7....It means Herb is committed to buying 137 passenger gliders.  smirk 
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineSulman From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2035 posts, RR: 33
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11326 times:

Are the -300's that noisy? I honestly can't hear the difference between them and the NG's here (At work under the flightpath at SOU).


James



It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
User currently offlineMtnmanmakalu From Ireland, joined Nov 2004, 515 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11304 times:

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 5):
Like yourself, I was shocked. WN to buy Airbus planes? Never experienced a quiet 737

Funny, but saying that the "wood-chipper" noise A319/320 is quieter than a NG 737 is even more shocking!!!

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
My answer to her question would be "YES". You buy a house next to an airport, than you need to EXPECT noise.

When the property was purchased years ago, BFI was NOT an Airport that was supposed to be used for many scheduled flights everyday like they are proposing now.... I'm sure you wouldn't like it if it all changed after you moved in!!!

mtnman  Wink



I do, I don't, whatever.......
User currently offlineN908AW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 921 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11236 times:

Quoting Mtnmanmakalu (Reply 11):

Funny, but saying that the "wood-chipper" noise A319/320 is quieter than a NG 737 is even more shocking!!!

Eek... don't remind me! Must...stop..the...evil...whining!!  banghead 



'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
User currently offlineASMD80 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 11058 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
Airline says it will use 737-700s at Boeing Field

I don't think having WN use only 73Gs at BFI will solve anything.

Oh, and WN should instead look into Stage IV hushkits for all their 737's, but people will still b***h about it.



Some things are actually better at 30,000+ feet...
User currently offlineZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1411 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 10936 times:

Quoting Mtnmanmakalu (Reply 11):
Funny, but saying that the "wood-chipper" noise A319/320 is quieter than a NG 737 is even more shocking!!!

I know what you mean! Is that just heard on the aircraft with the IAEs or with the CFMs as well? If so, why does a CFM sound different on an A32x compared to a 737?


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5442 posts, RR: 29
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 10891 times:

Quoting Mtnmanmakalu (Reply 11):
When the property was purchased years ago, BFI was NOT an Airport that was supposed to be used for many scheduled flights everyday like they are proposing now.... I'm sure you wouldn't like it if it all changed after you moved in!!!

It's already been a very busy airport. Many cargo, charter, and private jet operators use it daily. Yes, traffic will increase, but it's not like they're opening up some unused field.

Besides, they have a LOOOOONG road ahead of them in making this happen. And didn't I read somewhere that SEA had already agreed to drop it's top fees from $24+ pp to $14.50?

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10839 times:

Quoting Sulman (Reply 10):
Are the -300's that noisy? I honestly can't hear the difference between them and the NG's here (At work under the flightpath at SOU).

&

Quoting ASMD80 (Reply 13):
I don't think having WN use only 73Gs at BFI will solve anything.

Apparently the performance of the -700 allows for less low-flying over residential areas. I'm not sure that the actual noise level is that different, only how close the plane is likely to be to ground level near residential areas.



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1411 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10839 times:

Nothing Ryanair haven't already tried...

No wait! BFI isn't an hour out of town!


User currently offlineCloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10841 times:

Quoting Mtnmanmakalu (Reply 11):
When the property was purchased years ago, BFI was NOT an Airport that was supposed to be used for many scheduled flights everyday like they are proposing now.... I'm sure you wouldn't like it if it all changed after you moved in!!!

Southwest's noise impact on BFI will be negligible. Many planes that fly into BFI routinely are far louder than a 737. Some of the many business jets and other general aviation craft that use the airport were not built with any concern for ground noise at all. Military jets can be louder still. This is not some puddle-jumper rural field with some poor old grandmas nearby, who were there long before the airport. This is one of the busiest airports in the country without scheduled commercial service. It has been that way for a very long time. There is no informed, honest opposition to Southwest's move to BFI based on noise. Whoever is making that argument either does not know what they are talking about or is lying to you.

My guess is that whatever opposition there is to the move exists for these reasons...

.....The Port Authority in Seattle wants its pound of flesh from Southwest and is pulling the strings behind the scenes. They charge some of the highest fees in the country at Sea-Tac and want to charge even more.

.....Some people just oppose all development near them as a matter of habit and political convenience.

.....People are afraid of the increase in ground traffic. This is a more substantive issue than noise in many airport expansions. It is something that people get legitimatly concerned about, and not just because of the raw increase in traffic volume. Take a look at the traffic arround a major airport.You see lots of people that don't know where they are going driving cars they don't own. So they drive to slowly or to recklessly, or both. Often they are talking on their cell phones. In this way, many rental car drivers introduce themselves to the city with the worst driving known to man. Taxi drivers whip in and out of traffic to grab one last fare. Airports also attract more trucks and busses that would otherwise come to an area. The noise, delay, and danger airport traffic creates is a real headache - and a legitimate issue.

.


User currently offlineJFKviaPHX From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 194 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10471 times:

I don't know what the big deal is with airplane noise. I live in Rockaway near JFK and we get it almost all day and all night. The 742 freighters make a lot of noise at 3000 feet. Just get use to it.

User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10414 times:

Why don't they buy planes that are acutally quiet on the inside.

User currently offlineA340600 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 4105 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10120 times:

Quoting Sulman (Reply 10):
Are the -300's that noisy? I honestly can't hear the difference between them and the NG's here (At work under the flightpath at SOU).

There isn't much, but I find the NG's even louder, especially inside the cabin and in flight pilots say they're noisier up front.

Quoting Mtnmanmakalu (Reply 11):
Funny, but saying that the "wood-chipper" noise A319/320 is quieter than a NG 737 is even more shocking!!!

Are you kidding?! An A32X is MUCH quieter than a 737!

Sam



Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4761 posts, RR: 26
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10046 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Lets not forget the situation at SNA. I believe WN only flies 737-700s to SNA for the same reason.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineGlareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1303 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9871 times:

Quoting Mtnmanmakalu (Reply 11):
Funny, but saying that the "wood-chipper" noise A319/320 is quieter than a NG 737 is even more shocking!!!

That is the best description for this sound I have ever heard!  Smile But indeed it is annoying

But still, that is a pre-flying noise. Up in the air there is a remarkable difference in favor of the flying bus..



There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9466 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8581 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
The advanced Boeing 737-700s, which allow pilots to minimize ground noise by climbing quickly, would also enable the airline to fly a new approach over Elliott Bay that has generated few noise complaints from Magnolia and West Seattle residents

This confuses me. Flying over Elliot Bay is the normal straight in departure. All of the large jets do that. There are probably few complaints about this departure regardless of what type of plane it is. You fly over the industrial part of Seattle, and then are over Puget Sound and Elliot Bay.

West Seattle residents probably won't be affected at all by the extra 737s. Those neighborhoods have to deal with all of the west bound (west/vashon departure/arrivals) of small planes. Typical procedure is to fly over west Seattle at 500-1000ft AGL in order to stay below Sea-Tac's class bravo airspace.

The place that the extra 737s will really hurt is when the airport is in south flow and the 737s will fly down the valley. You fly over residential neighborhoods then, and there are noise issues.

As for Magnolia, no flight paths out of BFI really fly over that area unless you have an obnoxious pilot that intentionally flies over land instead of the water. Overall I really do not understand anyway that the 73G's performance will be helpful in reducing noise other than the obvious of it being a quieter airplane.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
25 S12PPL : Then you havn't spent much time at an airport that gets lots of A320's and A319's. They aren't any quieter OUTSIDE than a 737. Just because it's quie
26 Post contains images DeltaGuy767 : Oh great another A vs. B battle on A.net . If we all use common sense here we would all know that it is very hard to say definitively that the 737NG
27 DfwRevolution : >> There isn't much, but I find the NG's even louder, especially inside the cabin and in flight pilots say they're noisier up front. #1. I'm sure tha
28 AsstChiefMark : "Southwest to Buy Quiet Jetliners?" As opposed to propliners? I have DHC-2 and DHC-6 aircraft flying over my house at 300 ft AGL every 15 minutes all
29 Post contains images Gipper913 : AMEN! I grew up about 8 miles East of you...and those 74s and the Concordes every morning were loud.....and we got used to them just fine....a 737-XX
30 MGA : Now that is FUNNY!!! and SO real... MGA
31 PanAm330 : Oh tee friggen hee. The NG is an incredibly quiet aircraft.
32 Post contains images Cruiser : Welcome to my Respected Users List. There are way too many variables to even compare the two. Also, don't forget the atmospheric conditions James
33 Syncmaster : I don't know about you, but I was standing under the 4R approach at MDW today, and couldn't tell a difference between the 737's that were taxiing and
34 AndrewUber : I doubt they'll keep any deal QUITE.... LOL And Sync is right - if you want to experience a QUIET 737, just go to your local airport and look for NG'
35 RoseFlyer : Ok guys you are getting a little carried away with this whole 737NGs make no noise thing. They do make a hell of a lot of noise. Compared to Cessnas a
36 HZ747300 : This is the kind of mentally defective thinking that has me worried about the future of the United States. This woman and her comments are both equal
37 PlanesNTrains : I live under a heavily used corridor for planes arriving/departing SEA, though a little ways away. I also have arrivals to BFI pass overhead regularl
38 Searpqx : So the woman isn't eloquent - her point is valid. Nobody denies that BFI is a busy airport with jet traffic. Those that bought in the Georgetown area
39 Post contains images Cpharris5514 : I would love to tell Ms. Walls about growing up just north of Boeing Field from 1964-1982, which I did. Those years included the days of the 707 and
40 RoseFlyer : I fully agree with you and welcome to my respected users list! All of these extra flights will certainly add to the noise, not to mention drive most
41 Drewfly : Wait a minute.......ALL 737's are fitted out/delivered from BFI. This woman has to hear Boeing test flights all day long. Suddenly, she heard about So
42 Post contains images Glareskin : Then we must have a hearing sensitivity in a different frequency range because I've flown on NG's and 320's in several occasions recently and I do NO
43 Shenzhen : Look no further then the residents of Sydney and how every community cries foul each time the re-route departures due to another community complainin
44 Post contains images HZ747300 : Couldn't tell you. I just moved here. Anyhoo, my point is that if you move near an airport, and she clearly states that she knew it was an airport wh
45 707lvr : Just so y'all know, noise complaints from Georgetown are irrelevant. Look where it is, for pete's sake. It's like standing on the numbers and complain
46 Shenzhen : Property values in Geogetown are also pretty low, so their voice won't be all the loud when they start screaming. Altought I do like to have a beer a
47 KBFIspotter : OK, lets see here... How many older biz jets fly into BFI each day? too many to count. And then how many of those are flying with their original engi
48 JFKviaPHX : Maybe NW will bring their DC-9 in a few times of the day. Then they can hear what a loud aircraft sound like. The 737NG are a whisper compared to them
49 RayChuang : You've GOT to be kidding with that remark. Isn't the 737-700 already ICAO Stage IV compliant when it comes to engine noise?
50 Post contains links and images RoseFlyer : I have heard from a number of people that work at BFI that there are restrictive covenants that were created when SEA opened that state that no comme
51 Searpqx : Look at it this way - say you bought a house on a busy arterial. Buying the house you knew that you were on a busy road, so you fully expect 20-30 lar
52 HZ747300 : Using your example, I would say that the person has no right to complain. It is not so much that they should not have expected this, as that it is th
53 DfwRevolution : >> You've GOT to be kidding with that remark. Isn't the 737-700 already ICAO Stage IV compliant when it comes to engine noise? Raychung, perhaps he m
54 Planesailing : According to figures I found when searching on the internet, the A320 makes 75db of noise, compared to 73G's 79db.
55 Searpqx : I'll give one more counter argument then I'll let it go - I suspect we're just going to have to agree to disagree. They didn't 'gamble' any more than
56 Isitsafenow : Those planes along with the DC 9's have be hush-kitted, Sonny. You needed to be around in the late 60's when hush-kits were an idea on those two plan
57 Post contains images DeltaGuy767 : That was my point. You can't jump to conclusions about the sound of an a/c just because you heard it once. No, probably you received that information
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