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Why Is TWA Terminal 5 At JFK Not In Service?  
User currently offlineBoegas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6503 times:

Does anyone know why the "retro" Terminal 5 at JFK is closed and not in use?

and will it be in service again some day or was it closed permanently?

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6484 times:

There's a current thread here discussing jetBlue's plans to build a new terminal behind the historic Saarinen terminal. Terminal 5 is outdated and can't be used as is for a number of reasons.


An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6396 times:

Considering that it was the TWA terminal...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Richard Austen



And Royal Jordanian another operator of the terminal moved to terminal 3 there really wasn't a need for it.

Jet Blue has used it as an overflow terminal with planes parked there and passengers being bussed to them.

Jet Blue will build there new terminal behind terminal 5 and use the historic terminal 5 as an entree.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineJFKviaPHX From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 194 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6288 times:

When did they bus passengers to T5? I don't remember seeing that while working over there.

In order for T5 to be used and be efficient they needed to do a lot of work to it, inside and out. There were many problems that needed to be addressed before someone could run an operation out of there.


User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6200 times:

Quoting JFKviaPHX (Reply 3):
When did they bus passengers to T5?

I have seen it happen a couple of times. Jet Blue parks some of their planes on the tarmac and boards them there.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineSRT75 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6173 times:

T5 has been closed since TWA was bought out by AA. Jet Blue currently has the rights to use T5. They are planning construction of a "new" Terminal 5 which will incorporate some of the old T5.

T5 is a historical piece of architecture (don't know if it is "officially" a historic building). Therefore, the "spaceship" building will be preserved. Note from the picture in Post #2 that the TWA sign is STILL standing at T5!

I'm sure the boarded up T5 causes a lot of mixed feelings for former TWA employees.


User currently offlineBoegas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 6113 times:

I still don't understand why they have to build a new one instead of use the old one, it's sad such a great looking and famous building is just emty.

But who ownes the TWA building today?


User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 6105 times:

Quoting Boegas (Reply 6):
still don't understand why they have to build a new one instead of use the old one

1) It's too small
2) It doesn't have an adequate baggage system
3) It's too small
4) It's pretty, but not very functional or efficient

They can't significantly alter the main building and flight tubes because it's a legally protected landmark.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16810 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 6090 times:

Quoting Boegas (Reply 6):
I still don't understand why they have to build a new one instead of use the old one, it's sad such a great looking and famous building is just emty.

In a post 9-11 enviroment there's just no room for the huge equipment and space that the TSA uses today, it would require hundreds of Millions of Dollars to improve the situation. Instead B6 is going to build a brand new terminal behind T5 and use T5 for a club or something, it's cost prohibitive to bring the T-5 structure up to modern airport standards. The building was terribly over used by TWA, it out grew itself by the 1970s with Jumbo jets.

Quoting Boegas (Reply 6):

But who ownes the TWA building today?

The Port Authority..

One thing that I think gets lost on folks is just how small the structure actually is, it's the size of a restaraunt with two skinny tubs connecting to two other restaraunt sized structures.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 6048 times:

Quoting Boegas (Reply 6):
I still don't understand why they have to build a new one instead of use the old one, it's sad such a great looking and famous building is just emty.

They are going to keep the building, just add on behind it!




No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1368 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 6048 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):
One thing that I think gets lost on folks is just how small the structure actually is, it's the size of a restaraunt with two skinny tubs connecting to two other restaraunt sized structures.

I would agree. As impressive as it is from the outside, the inside of the building left a lot to be desired. Certainly not designed to handle upwards of 20 Trans-Atlantic flights every day, with very small check-in and departure/gate areas. Customs and Immigration were a joke also. When this building was originally designed, there was no way to know of the massive explosion of air travel which was about to take place...

Still, it saddens me to think that the future view from those huge windows that overlooked the ramp will be of another terminal, instead of a twin-globed TWA 747....


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16810 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 6008 times:

I would have loved it if they (the Port Authority) could have moved T-5 and the Oval section of Pan Am's World Port to a different part of the airport and convert them into museums with a decent hotel (Westin, Marriott, Hyatt etc..).

They could have pulled some old PA and TWA birds from the desert as well as move the Concorde from the Intrepid back to JFK for display.

They moved Newark's Historic Terminal One 1/2 Mile and incorporated it into a brand new Airport Administration/Police/rescue building.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6380 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5950 times:

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 9):
They are going to keep the building, just add on behind it!

Then what becomes of T6? If T5 is too small and out-dated, isn't T6, opened in 1969(?) for National.



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16810 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5926 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 12):
Then what becomes of T6? If T5 is too small and out-dated, isn't T6, opened in 1969(?) for National.

It will be torn down and a hard stand parking area will be built.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5876 times:

AlitaliaMD11, where did you get that picture?

Quoting STT757 (Reply 13):
Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 12):
Then what becomes of T6? If T5 is too small and out-dated, isn't T6, opened in 1969(?) for National.

It will be torn down and a hard stand parking area will be built.

The land at T-6 and the terminal area of T-5 will be torn down and used for a new T-5/6.


User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5797 times:

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 14):
AlitaliaMD11, where did you get that picture?

Google, but there are a couple of articales around that do have this picture. I think one in business weekly.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineExFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5635 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 12):
Then what becomes of T6? If T5 is too small and out-dated, isn't T6, opened in 1969(?) for National.

T6 is outdated - although JetBlue has done a good job in remodeling and getting in new food/retail stores and the Oasis Spa, the building just feels, well, old inside. And JetBlue is nearing T6's limits.

(Of course, if you really want to see "outdated", look at Terminal 2!)

I believe that after the new T5 is completed, T6 will be torn down and replaced. Depending on how long that takes, it's possible that JetBlue may wind up occuping the new T6 as well.


User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5612 times:

Well I hope later on they build a T-6. It will be weird when T6 in knocked down and T5 is jetBlue because The the airport is Terminals 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9. And the PANYNJ said they want to get the airport down to I think 6 bigger terminals. But anyway so where will jetBlue passengers check-in. T5 is to small to check-in, will they build the check-in booths in the new terminal behind it and put some self check-in machines in the historic T5 along with a conference room and something else.

 airplane jetBlueAtJFK airplane 



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16810 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5598 times:

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 17):
And the PANYNJ said they want to get the airport down to I think 6 bigger terminals

That's why they only built 6 Airtrain terminals to serve 9 terminals, there are just too many terminals and they feel (rightfully so) that 6 Terminals is more than adequate. AA is consolidating into a single new terminal, B6 will consolidate T-6 and T-5 into a single new terminal, DL had plans (prior to 9-11) to tear down T-3 and consolidate their international flights into T4.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5540 times:

So, the new terminals are T1, T4, T5(future), and T8(future)

So that leaves T2, T3, and T7 still to be renovated (modernized). (since T9 will be with T8 and T6 will be with T5)

Any plans to renovate them^?


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16810 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5523 times:

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 19):
So that leaves T2, T3, and T7 still to be renovated

T7 under went a $200-400 Million Dollar renovation around 2000, it's in good shape for the amount of flights it handles.

As for T-2 and T-3 no chance, they are way too out dated and in-efficient to be modernized or renovated. DL stated they were going to spend something like $200 Million to improve the HVAC and baggage belts (both probably 40 years old) at T-3, however given their current situation I doubt that project has moved foward. It does not look as though DL will be investing in anything new for a long time in terms of facilities, if they do it would be in ATL but that's future speculation right now they have more pressing items to address.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12332 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5500 times:

In the other thread, it was pretty clear that the only commitment B6 made to T5 was to have a ticket counter or two there. The rest of T5 was left for some other unspecified use, such as a restaurant or a museum.


Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineFleet Service From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 622 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5466 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 13):
It will be torn down and a hard stand parking area will be built.

A sad day when that happens, National was a great airline.



Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
User currently offlineHawk44 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 759 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5446 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):
One thing that I think gets lost on folks is just how small the structure actually is, it's the size of a restaraunt with two skinny tubs connecting to two other restaraunt sized structures.

I agree after seeing it for the first time I was shocked at how small the whole thing looked. It was nice to see the TWA sign still up though.

Hawk44



Never under estimate the power of US
User currently offlineBoegas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5273 times:

Next time I'll be in New York I´m gonna try to call the guy at PANYNJ (the one who's looks ater T5) and ask if he can open the building for a while so I can get some nice pictures  Smile ..... and if there's is enough time I´m gonna make a Mohito on a the bar, close my eyes in try to get the "retro"-feeling  Smile

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