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The New US Airways - 787 Or A350?  
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Posted (8 years 8 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10043 times:

US Airways has 10 of the eldest 767-200's and I am wondering when they will eventually be replaced and by what aircraft?

More A330's to continue their fledgling A330 fleet?

AmericaWest, whose management will now be running the company has a $250m loan with Airbus in agreement that they will buy new aircraft from them in the future, but I think that might just be for A320's.

Ten 787's in new US Airways colors would go a long way to continue their good PR, and perhaps even seeing one in a retro paint scheme would be all the more awesome!  Smile

I've read that the new US Airways will go by the three letter identifier "LCC" which ironically also stands for Low Cost Carrier - is this correct?

And will the new US Airways will not be reffered to as "Cactus" anymore simply giving way to "US Air?"

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCapicuuu From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10029 times:

I think part of the agreement for the loan was to be an A350 launch customer... but I may be wrong

User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10007 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Thread starter):
US Airways has 10 of the eldest 767-200's and I am wondering when they will eventually be replaced and by what aircraft?

A350's, obviously, since Airbus put that as a stipulation in part of the "bailout"/"loan"/whatever you want to call it.

Quoting AirRyan (Thread starter):
Ten 787's in new US Airways colors would go a long way to continue their good PR, and perhaps even seeing one in a retro paint scheme would be all the more awesome!

Not likely to happen, see above, they've got their heads planted firmly up Airbus' collective butt, because of the financing package.

Quoting AirRyan (Thread starter):
I've read that the new US Airways will go by the three letter identifier "LCC" which ironically also stands for Low Cost Carrier - is this correct?

Yes, there was a whole thread about it a few weeks ago.

Quoting AirRyan (Thread starter):
And will the new US Airways will not be reffered to as "Cactus" anymore simply giving way to "US Air?"

Most likely USAir, as that is the name of the "new" airline.


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 9960 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Thread starter):
US Airways has 10 of the eldest 767-200's and I am wondering when they will eventually be replaced and by what aircraft?

More A330's to continue their fledgling A330 fleet?

AmericaWest, whose management will now be running the company has a $250m loan with Airbus in agreement that they will buy new aircraft from them in the future, but I think that might just be for A320's.

US's 767s aren't even close to being the oldest ones out there, they were delivered from 1987-1993.

They'll be replaced by 10x A330-200, to be delivered from 2009-10.

US also has on order 20x A350-800, for expansion, to be delivered from 2011-13.

Quoting AirRyan (Thread starter):
I've read that the new US Airways will go by the three letter identifier "LCC" which ironically also stands for Low Cost Carrier - is this correct?

LCC will be their stock ticker symbol.

Quoting AirRyan (Thread starter):
And will the new US Airways will not be reffered to as "Cactus" anymore simply giving way to "US Air?"

As the US certificate should be the surviving one, USAir is likely to remain the call sign.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 9926 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 2):
Quoting AirRyan (Thread starter):
US Airways has 10 of the eldest 767-200's and I am wondering when they will eventually be replaced and by what aircraft?

A350's, obviously, since Airbus put that as a stipulation in part of the "bailout"/"loan"/whatever you want to call it.

I did a search and all I could find was that they would buy some new Airbus aircraft, but I couldn't find anything to confirm the A350. It very well could have been A320's for the older 737's unless the A350 was specfied.

Quoting A330323X (Reply 3):
They'll be replaced by 10x A330-200, to be delivered from 2009-10.

US also has on order 20x A350-800, for expansion, to be delivered from 2011-13.

I must have read some bad info as I thought the 767-200's they had from the mid 1980's. The A350 even at 2011 is a long way out, how much sooner will Boeing have the 787 out? And why so long on the A330's 4 years? Is that planned or just the best they could get?


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 9869 times:

The A-350 is confirmed with 20 on order as part of the financing deal. There is a thread about it under US Airways somewhere on the forum here.


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9740 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 4):
And why so long on the A330's 4 years? Is that planned or just the best they could get?

That's what they wanted. They were originally to be delivered in 2007-09, but US pushed them back.

And, again, the 767s are quite capable of making it to 2009. There's no reason to retire them earlier than is necessary.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9688 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 6):
And, again, the 767s are quite capable of making it to 2009. There's no reason to retire them earlier than is necessary.

I think there is more than one 767 carrier who has bought 787's to replace them long before their 767's were expired. Who knows, maybe they just plan on selling them off to somebody else and not necessariliy throwing them out to the boneyard. 20 A350's will be quite a buy, I trust that the new US Airways will be quite successful by the time they take delivery of their last A350!


User currently offlineBrokenrecord From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 772 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9473 times:

As mentioned, A350 is the deal, and many 737-300/400's will be returned to lessors in favor of utilizing HP A319/320's.

User currently offlineFlyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1016 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9447 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 4):
And why so long on the A330's 4 years? Is that planned or just the best they could get?

They very possibly could have pushed their delivery date back in order to get a refund of their deposits from AirBus for the delivery slots.


User currently offline11Bravo From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9430 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 4):
And why so long on the A330's 4 years? Is that planned or just the best they could get?

Maybe it's because they are broke, in bankruptcy, and bleeding money all over the place.



WhaleJets Rule!
User currently offlineHZ747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1647 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9391 times:
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Quoting AirRyan (Thread starter):
AmericaWest, whose management will now be running the company has a $250m loan with Airbus in agreement that they will buy new aircraft from them in the future, but I think that might just be for A320's.



Quoting Capicuuu (Reply 1):
I think part of the agreement for the loan was to be an A350 launch customer... but I may be wrong

No, you're right!  thumbsup 

I just want one of the new A350s to be on a new PHX-Nadi-Sydney run, to make it easy on my to grandma and the folks. Not likely, but it would be cool to have it US start PHX-LGW after the merger is finalized.



Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlineBrokenrecord From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 772 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9356 times:

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 11):
I just want one of the new A350s to be on a new PHX-Nadi-Sydney run, to make it easy on my to grandma and the folks. Not likely, but it would be cool to have it US start PHX-LGW after the merger is finalized

I'm pretty sure that there will be PHX-LGW service coming...

I'd love to see US buy landing rights and gates from NW at NRT, and fly the 350 on PHL-HNL-NRT. I know it's a pipe dream, but still.  Smile


User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 9008 times:

Isn't there a stipulation with the A350 order that if it does not meet the standards of the 787 then the deal is off and US gets out with the money.

User currently offlineHanginOut From Austria, joined May 2005, 550 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8778 times:

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 13):
Isn't there a stipulation with the A350 order that if it does not meet the standards of the 787 then the deal is off and US gets out with the money.

Jdwfloyd is right.

There is a provision in the agreement that if the A350 can't meet certain performance standards (compared to the 787), then the deal is off.

Good memory, also thanks for reconfiriming this info for me. Its nice to see someone else remembers it as well, as I was starting to second guess myself when no one else pointed this out.  highfive 

HanginOut



Dreaming of the day I can work for an airline
User currently offlineIMac7477 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8594 times:

If US Airways is to expand its fleet with either the A350 0r the 787, what routes do you think they might open up with those aircraft? Which routes do you think would be viable?

User currently offlineBrokenrecord From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 772 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8590 times:

IMac, as I mentioned previously, the A350 will open the Pacific to them, even from PHL.

User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8561 times:

Quoting IMac7477 (Reply 15):
If US Airways is to expand its fleet with either the A350 0r the 787, what routes do you think they might open up with those aircraft? Which routes do you think would be viable?

They have the main spots in Europe covered well with their A330's so I would like to think that they would look at Pacific routes from their relatively conveinant PHX hub to Japan, China and perhaps even Australia.

US Airways 787? It's not completely out of the question as of at least now!

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00005742.jpg

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00005743.jpg

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00005746.jpg

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00005745.jpg

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00005744.jpg


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24652 posts, RR: 86
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8552 times:
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Quoting AirRyan (Reply 17):
US Airways 787? It's not completely out of the question as of at least now!

Anything in life is possible, I guess, but why are you hanging on to this?

http://www.americawest.com/awa/conte...anyprofile/usair/pressrelease.aspx

"Another $250 million will come from Airbus in the form of a loan. The companies have also agreed that the merged company will be the launch customer for the Airbus A350, with deliveries scheduled from 2011 to 2013."

"To rationalize international flying, the merged company will work with Airbus to transition to an all-Airbus international fleet of A330 aircraft and, beginning in 2011, A350 aircraft."

The intention is that the airline's international fleet be all A330 and then A350.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8532 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
Anything in life is possible, I guess, but why are you hanging on to this?

Mostly just because I loved the recently released retro liveries! I just came across these older style modified 787's and thought I would just share since I like every single one of them!

However, with the merger and considering that HP leases like 95% of their aircraft and the current US Airways about 75%, they could get rid of their Boeing 737 classics and 767's real easy and go all Airbus.

I guess I'm just not particularly fond of an all-Airbus fleet for the new US Airways for a handful of reasons but one in particular being because an airline named after the United States operating an all foreign built Airbus fleet seems oxymoronic to me!  

Thanks for the link - I've read a lot about the merger but I missed this!

Quote:
Fleet/Route System
US Airways/US Airways Express currently serves 179 cities and America West/America West Express serves 96 cities. When merged, the combined airline will become the nation’s fifth largest airline, as measured by domestic Available Seat Miles (ASMs). The combined airline is expected to operate a mainline fleet of 361 planes (supported by 239 regional jets and 57 turboprops for feed into the mainline system), down from a total of 419 mainline aircraft operated by both airlines at the beginning of 2005.

US Airways projects returning 25 additional aircraft by the end of 2006, in addition to the 46 aircraft that US Airways already has announced it plans to return. Nearly all of the aircraft are being returned to General Electric Capital Aviation Services (GECAS). The combined airline also will take delivery of 13 Airbus A320 family aircraft previously ordered by America West Airlines. Airbus has also agreed to reschedule and reconfirm 30 narrow body A320-family aircraft deliveries from 2006 - 2008 to 2009 - 2010. To rationalize international flying, the merged company will work with Airbus to transition to an all-Airbus international fleet of A330 aircraft and, beginning in 2011, A350 aircraft.

Once fully integrated, the airline plans to have primary hubs in Charlotte, Phoenix and Philadelphia, and secondary hubs in Las Vegas and Pittsburgh. The merged airline plans to have focus cities in Boston, New York/LaGuardia, Washington, D.C., and Fort Lauderdale.



[Edited 2005-08-25 06:15:43]

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24652 posts, RR: 86
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8490 times:
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Quoting AirRyan (Reply 19):
an airline named after the United States operating an all foreign built Airbus fleets seems oxymoronic to me!

You don't think it is oxymoronic that British Airways flies American aircraft?

Or that that the 787 will be one third Japanese?

It won't say "Made in the USA" on the side, it will say "Made with Japan."

 Smile

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8485 times:

With all this in mind how is the A350 doing. I have not heard too much on it. Will it keep up with the 380?

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24652 posts, RR: 86
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8473 times:
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Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 21):
I have not heard too much on it. Will it keep up with the 380?

No, thank goodness. These endless threads on the A380, with everyone saying the same thing, over and over and over.

I get the feeling that if a pilot farts on an A380 test flight, we'll know about it.

Myself I prefer the quieter development of the B787 and the A350.

 Smile

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8456 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 20):
You don't think it is oxymoronic that British Airways flies American aircraft?

Or that that the 787 will be one third Japanese?

It won't say "Made in the USA" on the side, it will say "Made with Japan."

I know of what you speak but I am referring to an ALL Airbus fleet. I'll admit that I have a preference for Boeing aircraft but I can respect Airbus the aircraft and would have to go with them if I were in a position and after crunching the numbers came to the conclusion that they were going to be better for my business.

To me, the A320 series aircraft pale in comparison with the aesthetics at least to that of the 737NG's with the front ends in particular - the A320 series looks like a dork with the long nose gear strut and the goofy nose and front windows and like I say in my opinion just pale to that of a 737NG, especially with the 6' winglets!  Smile

I do however love how Air France seems to have a preference for Boeing heavies!  Smile


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24652 posts, RR: 86
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8419 times:
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Quoting AirRyan (Reply 23):
I am referring to an ALL Airbus fleet.

Is the plan for an all Airbus fleet, across the board?

I know they are committed to the concept of Airbus for international, but I hadn't thought this included the domestic fleet.

Mind you, there is a long (and farily colorful) history between America West and Airbus. They've helped each other out more than once.

I agree, the winglets on the 737NG look good, and I've always liked the nickname, Fat Albert. Or was that just the original 737?

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 23):
I do however love how Air France seems to have a preference for Boeing heavies!

Which is odd, give how Americans seem to hold the French in such disregard.

cheers

mariner

[Edited 2005-08-25 07:01:26]


aeternum nauta
25 A330323X : It doesn't. US/HP doesn't have nearly enough A32X on order to replace the B737, even given the ones US is returning, let alone the B757. Of course, U
26 Bhmbaglock : I think that David Bronner(RSA) and the Airbus plant in Mobile were also factors. Remember that he controlled the board at the time of the deal and R
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