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Bits Of Varig's Restructuring And Long Term Plan  
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4026 times:

Considering RG's restructuring plan go through well, a new member of RG's main shareholder council (the FRB, also responsible for putting RG into this mess) stated a few cost-cutting measures:

1. Lay-offs are likely if the labor contracts revision proves not to be enough. RG currently employ a labor force the same size when they had 118 a/c (11.500 people), now down to 78.

2. Fleet simplification (4-5 years): Now at 12 different types of planes and engines, RG plans to reduce that number to two: B777s and B737s. He also mentioned that RG would like to work with Embraer.

3. RG needs to reduce costs by 40%, largely due to aviation fuel which currently makes up 35% of their operational costs.

4. Even possible new routes were announced (they seem to be getting a little too enthusiastic if you ask me), including ORD, IAH, YYZ and -- not again -- JNB. For the routes they may come to stop operations, expansion in the codeshare agreements will be utilized. This is all due in 2007, two years away.

5. VarigLog, RG's cargo subsidiary, has been sold to a U.S. investment fund. More information here:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/2286584/

So it seems that the MD-11s time with RG are on count down, as well as the B767s. Interesting to see an interest in Embraer, hope they go forward with that plan.

Now the most interesting of all must be the B777 and B737 deal, sounds good to me, later on the B739 (speculation here) could substitute the B757s.

RG's labor union asked for pay cuts instead of lay-offs if it comes to that, but I think we will see both.

This all, of course, could change if an investor (such as TAP) decide to invest in RG.

Cheers,
PPVRA

Edit: a more appropiate title

[Edited 2005-08-24 01:25:28]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3984 times:

Those are huge fleet cutbacks! Form 118 to 78! Wow RG had been doing bad, hope the plan turns them around. It can be done! (see other examples: TA and AV)


Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11630 posts, RR: 61
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3983 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Thread starter):
Even possible new routes were announced (they seem to be getting a little too enthusiastic if you ask me), including ORD, IAH, YYZ and -- not again -- JNB.

I agree -- a bit too overzealous. I think I can confidently say that ORD and IAH will never get off the ground, or if they do, neither will last long. Both are markets that are already domainted by a U.S. carrier -- UA in the case of ORD and CO to IAH -- and neither is a particularly huge market, especially Brazil-ORD, which apparently exists solely because of some connections, as the O&D is not that huge.

JNB and YYZ could definitely work, but probably only 3-4x weekly, IMO, and both from GRU only, not GIG.


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7582 posts, RR: 42
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3965 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Thread starter):
RG plans to reduce that number to two: B777s and B737s. He also mentioned that RG would like to work with Embraer.

It is interesting that in the medium term the MD-11 will no longer have a place within RG's fleet. The MD-11's are highly emblematic of RG, so it will be a sad loss for many. Nevertheless, this means too that RG will have to expand somehow the 772 fleet. Let's see what happens.

Quoting PPVRA (Thread starter):
ORD, IAH, YYZ and -- not again -- JNB.

I agree these are strange choices for new routes. ORD is partner SA)">UA's main hub so maybe RG is negotiating with SA)">UA in order for the two carriers to work together on this; otherwise, I also believe that this route would not last long. As for IAH, I also see this as a strange choice. SA)">CO will probably act very aggressively to protect its turf if RG goes ahead and launches this route. I don't know if cargo plays an important part of this plan, or perhaps it is the fact that Brazil's energy industry is very strong and Houston is the hemispheric capital of oil and gas. With respect to JNB, RG is probably wondering if a new attempt at JNB would be profitable since SA seems to have very profitable operations to Brazil. In any case, I tend to believe that one Star Alliance carrier flying the route for itself and on behalf of its partner is more than enough (of course I may be wrong). Finally, YYZ may work. AC is upgrading GRU from 763ER to A343 and yields seem to be very good. Maybe RG can now codeshare with AC to NRT from YYZ... this could improve the chance of success for the GRU-YYZ route.

Quoting PPVRA (Thread starter):
B739 (speculation here) could substitute the B757s.

That would be nice (I am sure you are talking about the 737-900ER's). I guess that adding such type to the fleet depends on whether the destinations served by the 752's at the moment can be reached by the 738/739ER without payload restrictions. A wingletted RG 739ER would look very nice!



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3940 times:

Interesting.

Expecting to see what happens when these measures take place with destinations that are currently served by 763, namely BOG and CCS.

I would expect 73G service to BOG again, just right for RG's overall performance in the route, and instead, they could push for a new bilateral between Colombia and Brazil to allow daily service.



SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3939 times:

One problem for RG in North America is that they doesn't serve any Star Alliance hub in the east. So it is impossible for RG offer onward their long haul flights to MIA and JFK.
They can for sure offer service to nearly any North American city through their codeshare partner AC and UA, but you can't fly RG to North America and have an US onward connection.
In Europe they can bring their passengers to the Star hubs of LIS, MAD. LHR and FRA by their own and offer onward flights by their partners.

The second options sounds more profitable for RG than the first.


I wonder what word the future owner of RG will have regarding their future fleet. If TP takes them over I could see a harmoniced long haul fleet order for them both.


User currently offlineCslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3900 times:

RG should consider launching flights to the "NEW" US Airways primary hubs of CLT, PHX and PHL.


--cslusarc from YWG
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3874 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Today Varig sold their cargo business (Velog) to north american funds (for US$ 100 mm).

They announce that the money will be used to pay some past due leasing, and to put 9 aircrafts back to service (which could improve their revenues). Two of those aircrafts are in fact Boeing 777-200 (PP-VRA and PP-VRD). With more aircraft, RG will probably increase offer of service (they already announce new GRU-JFK and GRU-MIA daily light, the GIG leg is back for SCL daily light and the POA-GRU-CDG has been realocated in favor of GIG).

Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 6):
RG should consider launching flights to the "NEW" US Airways primary hubs of CLT, PHX and PHL.

Good idea and better than ORD and IAH in my opinion.

Regards,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3865 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Thread starter):
Even possible new routes were announced (they seem to be getting a little too enthusiastic if you ask me), including ORD, IAH, YYZ and -- not again -- JNB

What RG management said was IAD and not IAH! I think IAD could work well, but it would have tough competition since UA will start its second daily IAD-GRU in Oct/05.

I also agree with the option above of exploring US Airways new primary hubs such as CLT, PHX and PHL, but I still see IAD as a better hub for RG connections.

Quoting PPVRA (Thread starter):
So it seems that the MD-11s time with RG are on count down

Good!

Quoting PPVRA (Thread starter):
. Interesting to see an interest in Embraer, hope they go forward with that plan.

I think this is a political statement...

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
and the POA-GRU-CDG has been realocated in favor of GIG).

Lipe: the correct itinerary of the flight is POA-GRU-CDG-AMS! Indeed, it will be relocated to GIG-GRU-CDG-AMS as of 4 Sep/05.

Rgs,


User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3828 times:

Hi!

Although I like MD11 I agree that RG need to shape down a bit its fleet. I don't know if having just 2 models will be wise. Only 777 and 737 I think it's just very few. What will happens to routes that the 777 is too big?
In my opinion RG should have 3 models, the 777 yes, the 787 and the 737NG. At this moment RG have 737-300's, 400's and 500's, they then should migrate to the 600, 700, 800 and 900?
The 787 could not only make some long-haul flights replacing the 767 but also work around Brazil and even around South America. The 777 would be used on those real "heavy" routes like London, Paris and Amsterdam.
This is just my humble opinion of course. The MD11 because is a tri-jet and seeing the wai prices are going it will be a very expensive airplane to operate from now on!!! Sad but true!
Regards


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3791 times:

Quoting CV990 (Reply 9):
The 777 would be used on those real "heavy" routes like London, Paris and Amsterdam.

Also FRA (already B777 rwo daily), MXP, MAD, LIS, CPH, LAX, MIA, JFK (already B777), in other words, all intercontinental routes should be operated with the B777.

Quoting CV990 (Reply 9):
In my opinion RG should have 3 models

Agree. Some intra-South American routes need an intermediary a/c. Of course, selective South American destinations such as MEX, EZE and SCL already receive the B777.

Rgs,


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3772 times:

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 4):
Expecting to see what happens when these measures take place with destinations that are currently served by 763, namely BOG and CCS.

I agree, a little strange not to have an intermediate a/c. Although maybe increasing frequencies (BOG is 1X daily by RG, no?) could prove more succesfull.

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 5):
In Europe they can bring their passengers to the Star hubs of LIS, MAD. LHR and FRA by their own and offer onward flights by their partners.

The second options sounds more profitable for RG than the first.

MAD, LIS, MUC is what I have thought about... but I agre also, Europe would be a better way.

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 5):


I wonder what word the future owner of RG will have regarding their future fleet. If TP takes them over I could see a harmoniced long haul fleet order for them both.

And TAP is to announce a fleet renovation plan in September, the same month they will announce a new take-over plan to RG.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
What RG management said was IAD and not IAH!

Yes indeed!! My fault guys, sorry!!

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
Quoting PPVRA (Thread starter):
. Interesting to see an interest in Embraer, hope they go forward with that plan.

I think this is a political statement...

I kinda took it in the same way, but who knows...

Cheers,
PPVRA



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3729 times:

Quoting CV990 (Reply 9):
The MD11 because is a tri-jet and seeing the wai prices are going it will be a very expensive airplane to operate from now on!!! Sad but true!

And now RG doesn't even have Velog anymore. It was one of my hopes to still see RG M11s around for a while...



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32782 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3732 times:

Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 6):
RG should consider launching flights to the "NEW" US Airways primary hubs of CLT, PHX and PHL.

Varig is trying to make money, not lose more.



a.
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3688 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 11):
BOG is 1X daily by RG

BOG is 4 x week with the B763ER.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Varig is trying to make money, not lose more.

Good one!  Smile

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 12):
And now RG doesn't even have Velog anymore. It was one of my hopes to still see RG M11s around for a while...

I'm sure VarigLog's new owners will keep the MD-11 on the fleet. Maybe they even keep the name VarigLog since 5% will remain with 5% stake in the company.

Rgs,


User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3646 times:

If RG starts IAD (what makes sense in terms of having a star hub in USA), star would have 3daily flights to there. A little bit of an overkill.

But UA couldn't just end it's 2nd daily IAD-GRU without loosing the traffic rights to one of it's competitors.
So will UA has three options: remain it's 2nd daily, move it to anywhere else or just let their authorities be dormant and risk to loose them.

Maybe UA could use one of their authorities to fly an daily IAD-GIG. So far star has no nonstop flight from GIG to anywhere in the USA. With their hub in IAD UA could capitalize on that.


User currently offlineBSBIsland From Brazil, joined Jul 2005, 379 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3594 times:

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 15):
Maybe UA could use one of their authorities to fly an daily IAD-GIG. So far star has no nonstop flight from GIG to anywhere in the USA. With their hub in IAD UA could capitalize on that.

AA flies daily MIA-GIG nonstop with 763 and at some point this year they will increase to 12x week.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3585 times:

Quoting BSBIsland (Reply 16):
AA flies daily MIA-GIG

I think JoFMO meant Star Alliance flights and indeed, apart from RG seasonal MIA-GIG, there is no nonstop Star flight from GIG to the US...IAD-GIG could be an option in the future.

Rgs,


User currently offlineBSBIsland From Brazil, joined Jul 2005, 379 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3565 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 17):

Sorry, I didn´t notice the "star" word there


User currently offline123 From Bolivia, joined Nov 2003, 745 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3548 times:

737's are sometimes too small, for instance this 27.08. RG is flying GRU-VVI-GRU with a 767 due to the high demand. With the new fleet proposal, a replacement of a 737 with a 777 would probably not take place, and thus, pax would fly with the competition = loss for RG. Surely, a mid-size plane between the 737 and 777 would be needed.

User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5925 posts, RR: 40
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3526 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 14):
Maybe they even keep the name VarigLog since 5% will remain with 5% stake in the company.

I am sure they will keep the Name VarigLog, well the name is well known in the market (not always as a good one) but its known.


regards



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3527 times:

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 15):
But UA couldn't just end it's 2nd daily IAD-GRU without loosing the traffic rights to one of it's competitors.
So will UA has three options: remain it's 2nd daily, move it to anywhere else or just let their authorities be dormant and risk to loose them.

By the time RG actually begins said service ther should, I hope, be a new U.S.-Brazil bilateral agreement.

Quoting 123 (Reply 19):

They can always increase frequency. Or even divide VVI and LPB into different flights.

JJ seem to be doing fine with only 2 a/c types (not counting the F100s).

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 14):
I'm sure VarigLog's new owners will keep the MD-11 on the fleet. Maybe they even keep the name VarigLog since 5% will remain with 5% stake in the company.

Hope you're right, they are good looking birds.

Cheers



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3440 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
Lipe: the correct itinerary of the flight is POA-GRU-CDG-AMS! Indeed, it will be relocated to GIG-GRU-CDG-AMS as of 4 Sep/05.

Hardi, thanks for the correction. I forget about AMS.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 21):
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 14):
I'm sure VarigLog's new owners will keep the MD-11 on the fleet. Maybe they even keep the name VarigLog since 5% will remain with 5% stake in the company.

Hope you're right, they are good looking birds.

I do expect it too. The M11 seems to be one of the best choices in terms of second hand plane for cargo.

Rgds
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinePersotvik From Norway, joined Nov 1999, 274 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3417 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 10):
Also FRA (already B777 rwo daily), MXP, MAD, LIS, CPH, LAX, MIA, JFK (already B777), in other words, all intercontinental routes should be operated with the B777

CPH is still served by M11, I saw it there yesterday evening, departed for LHR Smile



Just love flying
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3328 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Persotvik (Reply 23):
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 10):
Also FRA (already B777 rwo daily), MXP, MAD, LIS, CPH, LAX, MIA, JFK (already B777), in other words, all intercontinental routes should be operated with the B777

CPH is still served by M11, I saw it there yesterday evening, departed for LHR

The only routes served by RG 777 nowadays are GIG-FRA, GRU-FRA, GRU-MEX and GRU-JFK. All the others keep M11 and 763ER service. I believe Hardi tried to explain only the future of the routes, not the present.

Rgds,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 TP727 : Are there any plans for new acft? Are they planning on getting those planes on the second hand market or there are planes to place new orders? It´s d
26 EddieDude : The resolution of a U.S. court due very soon regarding the repossession of some leased aircraft will be crucial to the continuation of the operations
27 LipeGIG : See guys: RG has plans to lease some 763's on the short run. With the money received on VELOG's sell, they probably will put at least 75% of leasing p
28 Post contains images Brasuca : I cannot count up to 12. Can you clarify? I don't think tihs will happen, as LipeGIG has just mentioned: "the money will be used to pay some past due
29 SOUTHAMERICA : Going from the current 4 weekly flights to daily and downgrading BOG to 73G would probably be viable, but the bilateral between Brazil and Colombia o
30 LipeGIG : I don't think RG will drop LAX route. What probably will happen is drop LAX-NRT leg. LAX could be even more profitable as this is the only South Amer
31 LipeGIG : SouthAmerica, i think that this re-structure will wait for the new F100 fleet. OceanAir and AV could take advantage of this and start a code-share wi
32 SOUTHAMERICA : Could be. Though AV's plans are to basically put the F-100s on regional and domestic routes which currently see F-50 service and have exceeded the pr
33 Hardiwv : RG offers more seats in the market. RG operates to BOG B763 for the 4 weekly flights while AV operates 2 x week B767 and 2 x week B757. Loads may not
34 Post contains images Hardiwv : Your Dutch improved really quickly? You have to tell me what happened in AMS after we last saw each other! I will send you an email this weekend. Che
35 SOUTHAMERICA : Not enough to justify the huge difference in loads between AV and RG. Take this past June for example, 12.457 seats were offered in the BOG-GRU-BOG m
36 Hardiwv : Tks for the data. However, my statement still holds: RG offers more seat in the market. RG dominates the market from Brazil, while AV captures market
37 Post contains images SOUTHAMERICA : Yes, true, I never said you were wrong. RG offers more seats, AV carriers more passengers. I don't get it. First you said that you didn't believe AV
38 Hardiwv : Tks for recomnirming my statement. It would be interesting to look at the yields. RG performs quite well on Business Class in its Latin American netw
39 Post contains images Brasuca : Can't wait to read from you Dank u wel Leasing EMBs might not be the toughest part.. Yes, it's actually cheaper to lease them abroad, but it sounds l
40 RCS763AV : You mean BOG-Brazil? Dont think so. Its a tie. To do what? BOG-CTG-BOG? The segment is so short i dont think it is reasonable to drop it...of course
41 FLYYUL : So Varig wants to compete with Air Canada 343's daily on the route. If Im Varig... re-thinking is needed
42 Hardiwv : Interesting, so in fact AV wants to operate GIG nonstop. Why? Nadson: Tks for the insights! Rgs,
43 PPVRA : There was an article that counted up to 13, but they also included different interiors. This is what I have: B777 - Two different engines (2) MD11 -
44 FLYYUL : Because there is simply not enough demand for two carriers to fly side by side on YYZ-Brazil.
45 Avianca : totally agree! AV is in specially very strong from Venezuela (CCS) to many destinations on the AV network (AV is always the cheapest option to travel
46 SOUTHAMERICA : Man, think, I'm sure it doesn't hurt. If AV drops the GRU-GIG-GRU segments, it would translate in an arrival to BOG nearly 4 hours earlier !. If the
47 LipeGIG : I don't think they want to drop GIG as RG offers this leg. Remember that a 10 to 20% share on its customers means 460 to 920 customers.... which could
48 123 : Earlier in this thread I posted, that todays´RG flight to VVI was to be a 767 instead of the normal daily 737. Turns out, I saw around noon an RG 757
49 Hardiwv : Correct, and AV fares CCS-GRU via BOG are much cheaper than what RG offers. It is almost impossible to find a fare cheparer than USD900 (!!) to fly R
50 RCS763AV : Indeed. It appeared in an interview that Semana made to Efromovich. he also talked about MAO and other destinations. Well, then cut the turn around t
51 Hardiwv : I think Efromovich will ask for a revision of the Colobia-Brazil bilateral. Plans for Mexico are well advanced and GOL will start operations there in
52 PPSMA : PPVRA Just as a note: don´t forget that the T7 fleet (5 acfts, I believe?) have at least three distinct configurations, and one of them (I couldn´t
53 AF022 : Really? Where are they going to get these aircraft? Make them themselves? The B763 market is comically tight. Good luck finding any.
54 SOUTHAMERICA : A completely subjective opinion. For some passengers it would be inconvenient having to wake up earlier, but for others travelers wishing to connect
55 LipeGIG : In fact they have 8 aircrafts with 3 different configurations. (PP-VRA and B, PP-VRC and D, E to J) In fact not only the B763 market but also all mar
56 Brasuca : Just doing some search and came across some details surrounding Varig Restructuring Plans: (...)O vôo São Paulo-Tóquio, com escala em Los Angeles e
57 LipeGIG : Varig has been successfully in close an extension with ILFC in order to keep 11 planes (2 772, 4 752, 2 738 and 3 733). They get an extra 10 days to p
58 Brasuca : Good rumours around Varig. One representative of an anonymous group interested in RG stated that VARIG is a good business opportunity, for one who's g
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