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India And Singapore Agree To Allow More Flights  
User currently offlineAirish From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 259 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6071 times:

India and Singapore agree to allow more flights

http://www.dgca.nic.in/bilateral/singa0805.pdf


Worlds Only Reputable Airline Air India! Some Of The Least: BA, Jet (9w), Kingfisher!
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHimmat01 From India, joined Dec 2004, 1047 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6046 times:

Really quick on part of DGCA to put it up on its website almost immediately.

I guess SQ can start daily flights to BLR now. That's great news for the IT guys proceeding to the US. I was hoping for more frequencies from MAA.

Himmat



An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
User currently offlineBlrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1426 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5920 times:

Great news!! Am glad to hear that SQ is starting daily services to BLR. However, NW/BA/AF too are starting daily flights to blr, and these flights have less layover time, plus BA & NW have daily flights from SEA to europe. Quite happy now  Smile

BTW, how many seats does 1 B747 unit translate to? The agreement speaks in terms of B747 units.

Are there any SQ flights making use of 5th freedom rights through India?


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5908 times:

Quoting Himmat01 (Reply 1):
Really quick on part of DGCA to put it up on its website almost immediately.

Their update is very good.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineAseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2046 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5910 times:

funny that Nimmish hasn't responded to this thread, or is he still jumping with joy?
Boys!! keep digging at Devanahalli, planes are coming your way.
cheers!!
VT-ASJ



ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
User currently offlineBlrBird From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5749 times:

Quoting Blrsea (Reply 2):
how many seats does 1 B747 unit translate to

= 400 seats.

(existing + additional) = (Total)
BLR
2.25 + 3.7 = 5.95 (2380 seats)
SQ uses B772 (288 seats) (3x weekly)on this route, they can go daily(772) or 6x (747) to BLR or Is 3K going to get any slot?

HYD
1.8 + 1.6 = 3.4 (1360 seats)
MI uses AB320 (146 seats) 4x weekly, they can go daily with MI or switch to SQ B772 with 4x weekly

CCU
4.25 + 1.6 = 5.85 (2340 seats)
SQ uses B772 4x weekly and 3K uses AB320 (180 seats) 3x weekly, they could go daily now I guess.

Quoting Aseem (Reply 4):
Boys!! keep digging at Devanahalli

They are digging, but HAL is planning to expand the current airport to handle what the new airport(4.5 million capacity) wont be able to handle in 2008 (projected pax 7.5 to 8 million). We'll have to wait and see how this battle will turn out  Confused



from star dust....
User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3284 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5655 times:

Quoting Blrsea (Reply 2):
Am glad to hear that SQ is starting daily services to BLR

While I'm hoping they do make it a daily, I haven't seen an explicit announcement to that effect from SQ. I wonder if some other Singapore based airline (LCC maybe?) will grab the additional weekly seats!

Quoting Aseem (Reply 4):
unny that Nimmish hasn't responded to this thread, or is he still jumping with joy?

Unfortunately I was buried with work last night so did not browse a.net until this morning. Hence the delay in replying! I'll start jumping with joy the moment I hear that some airline is using those frequencies! Besides, I'll really start jumping when I can get seats to Europe/US at the last minute at a low fare  Smile Hopefully that day is not too far away!



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5641 times:

Can't they offer some special additional flights for Texdravid to MAA?  bigthumbsup 

User currently offlineSpink From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 319 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5615 times:

Quoting BlrBird (Reply 5):
(existing + additional) = (Total)
BLR
2.25 + 3.7 = 5.95 (2380 seats)
SQ uses B772 (288 seats) (3x weekly)on this route, they can go daily(772) or 6x (747) to BLR or Is 3K going to get any slot?

Just as a data point, the saturday flight 3 weeks ago, august 6th, was a 773 and not a 772. And as usual, it was full.


User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3284 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5605 times:

Quoting Spink (Reply 8):
the saturday flight 3 weeks ago, august 6th, was a 773

And Monday nights used to be 744s - also full.



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineEjazz From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2002, 724 posts, RR: 34
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5582 times:

Since SIA is already suspending some flights due to a shortage of pilots, poor loads and high oil prices I wonder how they will be able to mount these flights. I guess no leave for the year yet again.


Etihad Girl, You're a great way to fly.
User currently offlineSnehnath From India, joined Apr 2005, 100 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5456 times:

If you read the agreement carefully, there seems to be some disagreement on the reciprocal rights India will receive for allowing SQ to fly to the non-metros. Basically SQ seems to be saying that the previous agreement pretty much agreed that they could fly to those airports, and designated Indian airlines would get nothing in return. The Indian side seems to be trying to get out of a really bad deal it made the last time.

User currently offlineCloud4000 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5418 times:

Quoting Snehnath (Reply 11):
If you read the agreement carefully, there seems to be some disagreement on the reciprocal rights India will receive for allowing SQ to fly to the non-metros. Basically SQ seems to be saying that the previous agreement pretty much agreed that they could fly to those airports, and designated Indian airlines would get nothing in return. The Indian side seems to be trying to get out of a really bad deal it made the last time.

India and Singapore should just sign an "Open Skies" agreement. Of course, this would make too much sense for the Indian government since AI and IC would be eaten alive by Singapore Airlines, a much superior carrier.



Boston, USA
User currently offlineTKMCE From India, joined May 2002, 841 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5411 times:

Quoting Cloud4000 (Reply 12):
ndia and Singapore should just sign an "Open Skies" agreement. Of course, this would make too much sense for the Indian government since AI and IC would be eaten alive by Singapore Airlines, a much superior carrier.

Not exactly- SQ doesnt get into price discountimg too much and targets the sixth freedom traffic (which they get plenty) because of their connections. Ath te same time there is also a price sensivtive market, esp from Chennai which is basically Labour traffic to SIN and KUL. Thid is being absorbed by both AI and IC (as well as MH who feeds some traffic to SIN).

ASEAN open skies was ill thought out as was SAARC open skies where Emirates gota back door entry to lucrative markets like CCJ thanks to Srilankan. SQ has already made full use of ht operating services from places like ATQ and AMD hitting AI as well.

SQ is now basically targetting TRZ and CJB where MI (no SQ) will cream off the labour/ethnic traffic. After that happens ( may be even now since they have got some additional capacity) they will upgrade HYD to 4 SQ flights from the current MI. THe current A320 flights are causing problems for them because of lack of belly hold capacity- (80% of the pax in that route are lugging around their 2 PC 64 KG oversize bags to the US).


User currently offlineBlrBird From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5361 times:

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 13):
ASEAN open skies was ill thought out as was SAARC open skies

Yes, India does come up with some wired laws/policies!! To mention, no Indian carrier can fly international unless the company is 5 yrs old with a minimum (?) aircraft capacity. But they will allow a foreign carrier with out any of these restrictions ex JetStarAsia (3K).

It makes you wonder who is driving these policies!



from star dust....
User currently offlineStealthpilot From India, joined May 2004, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5308 times:

Long overdue. It was good to read the article that was recently published in the TOI which showed that ppl from BLR buy more international tickets than MAA or CCU. In fact after BOM and DEL, BLR sells the most tickets. BLR can easily handle doubling its international frequencies, but maybe not overnight.
And in the meantime i am sitting in BOM, having to fly AI because i cant fly out of BLR  Sad Damn nice new terminal tho  Smile
Nikhil



eP007
User currently offlineSshank From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 309 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5279 times:

Long overdue. It was good to read the article that was recently published in the TOI which showed that ppl from BLR buy more international tickets than MAA or CCU. In fact after BOM and DEL, BLR sells the most tickets. BLR can easily handle doubling its international frequencies, but maybe not overnight.
And in the meantime i am sitting in BOM, having to fly AI because i cant fly out of BLR Damn nice new terminal tho


Is this some kind of a joke? I suspect that this another of Girish Rao's article claiming that BLR is some kind of an aviation hotspot. MAA does 3X the volume BLR does - and most amusingly BLR is behind places like TRV, COK and HYD. There might be more demand now due to the tech traffic - but that's a small portion of the overall international traffic. MAA has 28 weekly services just to Singapore - and I would guess that is comparable to all international services BLR sees in a week.


User currently offlineAirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1436 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5262 times:

Any chance this will lead to an upgrade to mainline equipment on SIN-HYD from the MI 320s to SQ 772s?

Cheers,
Kaz



t.dot photography
User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3284 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5168 times:

Quoting Sshank (Reply 16):
MAA does 3X the volume BLR does - and most amusingly BLR is behind places like TRV, COK and HYD

Are these statistics published anywhere? Would make for an interesting read.



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineTKMCE From India, joined May 2002, 841 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5153 times:

Quoting Airish (Thread starter):
Are these statistics published anywhere? Would make for an interesting read.

Yes they are. AAI website has the details in "Traffic NEws" updated monthly. Their Mar 2005 issue has the whole year (Apr 04 to Mar 05) figures as well as comparison with the previous year.

Quoting Sshank (Reply 16):
Is this some kind of a joke? I suspect that this another of Girish Rao's article claiming that BLR is some kind of an aviation hotspot. MAA does 3X the volume BLR does - and most amusingly BLR is behind places like TRV, COK and HYD.

Not exactly - The traffic figures can be misleading. BLR was severely capacity constrained by bilaterals (only now have things opened up). Asa result till now a lot of pax were travelling ex BOM or ex MAA and so tyhe traffic figures would not paint a true picture. More realistic would be the MIDT data but then that comes at a price!


User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3284 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5141 times:

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 19):
Asa result till now a lot of pax were travelling ex BOM or ex MAA

Tell me about it  sarcastic . The number of times I've had to go to BOM or MAA to catch an international flight is not funny. And I have to do it again next month - go to BOM to catch BD to LHR. Then again in OCT - go to MAA to catch LH to LHR. In the statistics, I'm sure I will appear as a regular ex-BOM/MAA pax, not a ex-BLR pax. And I know that there are many others in my shoes.

I'd also like to compare the kind of traffic ex-MAA vs ex-BLR. As you've rightly pointed out, the traffic ex-MAA has a large portion of labour/ethnic market travelling short haul to SIN/KUL etc. While from BLR, it's a lot more hitech oriented, flying predominantly to Europe, North America, Far east etc. In terms of the ASKM, I'm sure BLR and MAA may be comparable?



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineSshank From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 309 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5072 times:

Not exactly - The traffic figures can be misleading. BLR was severely capacity constrained by bilaterals (only now have things opened up). Asa result till now a lot of pax were travelling ex BOM or ex MAA and so tyhe traffic figures would not paint a true picture. More realistic would be the MIDT data but then that comes at a price!

Sure BLR is capacity constrained - so, even if you say the demand in Bangalore is twice the current capacity, it would be less than MAA. So it will take a leap of faith to really believe that the people traveling to BOM and MAA make up such a huge amount to make ultimate demand there higher than MAA.

Tell me about it. The number of times I've had to go to BOM or MAA to catch an international flight is not funny. And I have to do it again next month - go to BOM to catch BD to LHR. Then again in OCT - go to MAA to catch LH to LHR. In the statistics, I'm sure I will appear as a regular ex-BOM/MAA pax, not a ex-BLR pax. And I know that there are many others in my shoes.

Well, I will! Every winter I am forced to do a pit stop in BOM because I cannot get a return to the US from MAA. Does this mean that MAA does more volume tan BOM? It just means that MAA is relatively more capacity constrained than BOM - it says nothing about the absolute demand. For example, lets say BOM demand is 110 and cap is 100, compared to MAA where demand is 60 compared to Cap of 40. In BLR it may be the Demand is 40 compared to Capacity of 20 - feeding the notion of some mega demand. I suspect all of the above is because people can't get tickets on the one LH flight that connects BLR to rest of the world  Smile

I'd also like to compare the kind of traffic ex-MAA vs ex-BLR. As you've rightly pointed out, the traffic ex-MAA has a large portion of labour/ethnic market travelling short haul to SIN/KUL etc. While from BLR, it's a lot more hitech oriented, flying predominantly to Europe, North America, Far east etc. In terms of the ASKM, I'm sure BLR and MAA may be comparable?

Huh? What would be the point? Is BLR an airline to make ASKM comparisons? As a passenger, from where do I have more options to fly out of? Think about that. Cheers!


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5060 times:

Quoting Sshank (Reply 21):
Well, I will! Every winter I am forced to do a pit stop in BOM because I cannot get a return to the US from MAA.

You should tie up with Texdravid here Big grin

Pretty soon BLR will have great capacity increase, and the corresponding chaos at that airport (which will make it worse than BOM). But when this new airport stands, BLR will be a wonderful place to fly in


User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3284 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5057 times:

Quoting Sshank (Reply 21):
Well, I will! Every winter I am forced to do a pit stop in BOM because I cannot get a return to the US from MAA. Does this mean that MAA does more volume tan BOM? It just means that MAA is relatively more capacity constrained than BOM - it says nothing about the absolute demand. For example, lets say BOM demand is 110 and cap is 100, compared to MAA where demand is 60 compared to Cap of 40. In BLR it may be the Demand is 40 compared to Capacity of 20 - feeding the notion of some mega demand. I suspect all of the above is because people can't get tickets on the one LH flight that connects BLR to rest of the world Smile

The reasoning here is logical. It's also likely that demand from BLR may be 40 compared to a 60 in MAA (after all every third techie in BLR is from MAA, and might want to fly through MAA  Smile ) I think we'll get a better picture of the true situation, after we have the additional flights from BLR this winter.



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineBlrBird From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4997 times:

Sample(SE Asia & EU/USA) route stats for MAA and BLR

MAA (weekly)
CMB
IC 7x, 9W 7x, UL15x, S2 7x
SIN
IC 14x, SQ 7x, AI 7x
KUL
AI 7x, MH 7x, IC 7x, 9W 7x, S2 7X
BKK
IC 3x, TG 4x
FRA
LH 7x, AI 1x
LHR
BA 2x (6x Oct 30), AI 1x
CDG/JFK
DL 7x

BLR
SIN
SQ 3x, IC 7x
KUL
MH 3x
BKK
TG 5x, IC 2x
CMB
UL 7x
FRA
LH 5x (7x Oct 30), AI 2x
CDG
AF 5x (Oct 30)
LHR
BA 5x (Oct 30)
AMS/SEA
NW 7x (Oct 30)

MAA has a very strong ethnic market and BLR does not! EU/US routes are comparable.



from star dust....
25 Post contains images Sshank : You should tie up with Texdravid here Perhaps I should. That said, TexD seems to have gone AWOL. The reasoning here is logical. It's also likely that
26 Texdravid : Nope, I am not AWOL, much to the chagrin of MrNiji!! I do agree that flying out of MAA is tough because of the high demand to number of seats ratio. T
27 Laxdesi : Didn't someone suggest in another thread that DL has low load factor from MAA. Is it pricing or lack of effective marketing? I have not heard of compe
28 Blrbird : It may not happen anytime soon, as the recent ASA agreement mentions HYD or MAA. For some reason KLM choose HYD over MAA. I thought it was yield rath
29 TKMCE : quote=Blrbird,reply=28]t may not happen anytime soon, as the recent ASA agreement mentions HYD or MAA. For some reason KLM choose HYD over MAA. [/quot
30 Post contains links Stealthpilot : Sorry for the late reply, was stuck in EWR thanks to AI!. Here is the link to the article i was talking about. http://www1.timesofindia.indiatimes.com
31 Post contains images Stealthpilot : I didn�t mean to argue that BLR was bigger than MAA; I mean to say that it�s being held back more than any other city. Of course MAA has mor
32 Nimish : The latest I've heard is that SQ has asked for a 2pw increase in frequency (from 3 pw to 5 pw). That's still not using the entire allocation, so it's
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