Braybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5545 posts, RR: 33 Posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5605 times:
The 747 below is taking off, which I know from reading the caption. Without a caption, I am unable to tell if it's taking off or landing. What are the telltale signs for the non-flyers amongst us to show whether it is taking-off or landing, the angle of the flaps, the angle of the aircraft?
Lando From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5590 times:
Well, I am no expert, but one way you can tell is if the plane is still near the beginning of the runway its landing...no plane would be touching down that far down the runway...it would have to go around...
Take-off is similar but no smoke, less flaps, and no thrust reversers.
Obviously, there are exceptions to every rule thanks to possible MX issues, pilot error, bizarre weather conditions, funny camera settings, and post-processing. However, these are some general guidelines you can use.
[Edited 2005-08-25 00:53:11]
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Braybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5545 posts, RR: 33
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5390 times:
Thanks guys. It's looks as if the tyres on one of the wheels are barely touching the runway so I wouldn't expect the absence of smoke to indicate anything here. And don't the thrust reversers only come on when all the wheels have made contact with the runway?
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31525 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5044 times:
Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 8): And don't the thrust reversers only come on when all the wheels have made contact with the runway
Not All.There are exceptions.
The Position of the TE Flaps around 1,2,5 for T/O & 30 or 40 for landing normally.
Check for T/R deployment on Landing.
Check for Speedbrake Deployment on landing.
Most large airplanes takeoff with some flaps and land with full. Just look at the angle they 'flap' down, if it is steep, it it about to touch down. It's the only way I could tell. But if it were crusing at low speed and needed it's takeoff flaps setting, I would not be able to tell.
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Olympus69 From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 1737 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4933 times:
Quoting SATX (Reply 12): Wow. I never knew of (and never experienced to my knowledge) any cases where thrust reversers were intentionally in operation while the plane was still in the air.
You will never see thrust reversers activated in the air on planes with engines below the wings. A rearward force below the center of gravity would cause a downward force on the nose. However, with rear engined planes the thrust is closer to the c. of g. and has less effect on the pitching moment. Even so, the only aircraft that regularly employs thrust reversers in the air is the Russian IL-62. There could be others but that plane is the only one I personally seen doing this. Here's one example
Starlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16520 posts, RR: 66
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4922 times:
Quoting Olympus69 (Reply 14): Even so, the only aircraft that regularly employs thrust reversers in the air is the Russian IL-62. There could be others but that plane is the only one I personally seen doing this. Here's one example
Other examples of planes that can use idle T/R in the air:
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Halophila From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 633 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4643 times:
Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 8): And don't the thrust reversers only come on when all the wheels have made contact with the runway?
I believe at least one accident (an AC DC-8) occurred when T/R were deployed while the aircraft was still airborne above the runway, causing a hard landing, forcing a go-around, but the damage to the aircraft caused the plane to unfortunately crash while on repeat descent (I believe with all hands lost). Of course there's also the Lauda 767 which crashed when one T/R deployed at altitude, again sadly resulting in the loss of the aircraft and all souls aboard. Albeit the Lauda accident was not during T/O or landing.
Spacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3391 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4454 times:
Quoting SATX (Reply 18): When taking off the incline of the plane is much steeper than when landing.
This doesn't really seem like a consistent rule to me, even if just based on the photos here on A.net.
It is a general rule, though, like all the other rules posted so far. Most planes will take off between 5 and 10 degrees and land almost flat (usually 2 or 3 degrees).
Of course, if you see a shot taken *during* takeoff rotation, it might look closer to a landing attitude, but then to think it was a landing you would expect to see trailing smoke because the wheels would be on the ground, which would rule that out. Plus, there'd still be the flaps to look at.
The shot at the top, I could tell was a takeoff just from the angle. 747's don't generally land with such an extreme angle of attack (that'd be about a 15 degree AOA, by the looks of it).
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