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777 And 737 Collide @ SEA  
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9633 posts, RR: 68
Posted (9 years 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 20410 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

The wing of a United Airlines jet bound for Narita, Japan, struck an Alaska Airlines jet while pushing back from the terminal at Sea-Tac Airport Wednesday. Both planes were damaged but no one was injured.

United spokesman Jeff Green says the Boeing 777 was leaving the terminal with 217 passengers and 14 crew members when it hit the Alaska Airlines plane early in the afternoon. No one was injured, but flight 875 was delayed while the airline worked to fix a wing tip light.

Alaska Airlines spokeswoman Amanda Tobin says Alaska's Boeing 737-900 was parked at the gate with no one on board at the time of the accident. No one was injured, and she says the accident did not delay any flights since the airplane was not in service at the time.



http://www.komotv.com/stories/38733.htm

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2006 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 20332 times:
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Ouch! I'd hate to be that tug driver!


It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
User currently offlineASMD80 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 20279 times:

How bad was the damage. Did anyone get any pics of the incident?


Some things are actually better at 30,000+ feet...
User currently offlineSeptember11 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3623 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 20233 times:

Not again... this is not the first wing strike for UA 777


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Photo © Matthew Lee - Contrails Aviation Photography



June 3, 2001 @ IAD



Airliners.net of the Future
User currently offlineDan2002 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 2055 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 20172 times:

Quoting September11 (Reply 3):
Not again... this is not the first wing strike for UA 777



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Photo © Matthew Lee - Contrails Aviation Photography



June 3, 2001 @ IAD

Not again.



A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
User currently offlineFlanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1638 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 20088 times:

Whoa, talk about bad training. The lead for the flight must have been sleeping.


Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 20057 times:

Union or not - those that can't figure it out need to be fired!

User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6143 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 20044 times:

So sounds to me like UA backed into AS? I had not heard anything, but I am not at work so kinda out of the loop. EA CO AS, R where are you?

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineDL1011 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 386 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 19995 times:

Just watched it on the news. Looks like the 777 was pushed back too far and hit an empty Alaska jet. The rudder on the 737 was damaged as was the left wing tip on the 777

User currently offlineFlanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1638 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 19985 times:

Were the wing walkers sleeping too? Such a stupid mistake!


Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6143 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 19949 times:

I think the AS plane is N309AS, it was out of service earlier. Let you knwo if I hear anything.

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineHikesWithEyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 816 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 19663 times:

The AS aircraft damaged was 317.
The UAL flight was pushing back and the wingtip impacted the rudder
of the AS jet. The AS jet was undergoing unscheduled maintenance
prior to the incident.



First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 19502 times:

At least United saved money by having lower paid employees doing the pushback instead of the better trained mechanics. That's wha'ts most important here.

Or...something like that.

I keep reading on this website from the anti-union crowd why it makes no business sense to have mechanics do receipt and dispatch (R&D), that's it's costly and unproductive. But take the long view...compare the higher labor cost for a mechanic to do R&D vs. all the damage done by rampers doing R&D instead (both to their company a/c and other aircraft...UA will have to pay for the damage the AS plane, too) and see how much is REALLY being saved in the end! Where were the wingwalkers in all of this? Why wasn't the person driving the tug fully aware of what was going around him/her?

I'd love to see figures on damages to aircraft before mechanics were forced to give up R&D vs. having the rampers do it. Similar time frames...not 25 years vs. 6 months... Yeah sure

Mechanics are responsible for the aircraft while it is on the ground...not the pilots, customer service, or flight attendants...the MECHANICS. And for that reason, among others, R&D should be done by MECHANICS, not rampers.


User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2954 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 19172 times:

I am no English expert but doesn't 'collide' mean something more serious. Like high momentum mass to mass incident.
Granted I assumed it would be a small clipping incident with no fatalities/injuries but some people on this net should really check their grammar, so misconceptions do not develop (particular topic headers).


User currently offlineChgoflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 19139 times:

"Collide" of all the words to use in english... perhaps bump or hit.. but collide sounds a bite dramatic.


Will someone please wake me up in 4 years
User currently offline242 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 498 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 18917 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 6):
Union or not - those that can't figure it out need to be fired!

Attitudes like that kill people. Harsh punishments can cause incidents and aircraft damage to be covered up or not reported for fear of instant termination.

Granted, someone who makes repeated mistakes needs to be dealt with appropriately. Retraining or disciplinary action up to termination are some options.

This event was witnessed by many people, but had something similar happened in the middle of the night with no one around, why would the people responsible be inclined to report it? What if the damage was slight enough to not be seen by the flight crew on their walkaround but caused problems in flight?


User currently offlineC172pic From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 18533 times:

Not shocking, I have seen UA push 777s at IAD with zero wingwalkers, oh, the insanity!

User currently offlinePictues From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 17790 times:

Up here in Canada, Mechanics only push planes back if they are being towed to the maintenance hanger (AC). At AC, WJ and Globeground airlines the ramp workers push the aircraft back. With Globeground contracts we Two the aircraft to the Hanger if needed.

User currently offlineRampRat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1537 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 17730 times:

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 12):

You really need to get over yourself Steve. I bet there were just as many accidents when the mechanics had R&D. Maybe your dad can tell me what his coworker was doing while he put this aircraft into the grass? Maybe thet should only have trained pilots do run ups huh?


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User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 17584 times:

Quoting RampRat74 (Reply 18):
I bet there were just as many accidents when the mechanics had R&D.

Again...I'd love to see an independent, fact-based comparison covering similar time periods before I reevaluate my position. Short of that, I'll stand behind what I said.

Quoting RampRat74 (Reply 18):
Maybe your dad can tell me what his coworker was doing while he put this aircraft into the grass? Maybe thet should only have trained pilots do run ups huh?

Not to nitpick, but this incident happened during the day, my Dad worked nights, so I know it wasn't someone on his crew. I don't know the facts behind this particular 737 incident at PDX, so to try to guess what happened here doesn't accomplish anything. In addition, the topic at hand is about R&D, not run-up and taxi incidents.

Would the pilots allow that kind of language (i.e. run ups) in their contract? I doubt it.


User currently offlineKanebear From United States of America, joined May 2002, 953 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 17509 times:

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 12):
I keep reading on this website from the anti-union crowd why it makes no business sense to have mechanics do receipt and dispatch (R&D), that's it's costly and unproductive. But take the long view...compare the higher labor cost for a mechanic to do R&D vs. all the damage done by rampers doing R&D instead (both to their company a/c and other aircraft...UA will have to pay for the damage the AS plane, too) and see how much is REALLY being saved in the end! Where were the wingwalkers in all of this? Why wasn't the person driving the tug fully aware of what was going around him/her?

Where is the correlation between union membership and competence? Are you stating that union members are more competent than non union members? It would serve to follow then that an employee could increase their competence by joining a union. How wonderful, what a great way to redeem incompetent workers... they join a union and are suddenly skilled.

Let's get to brass tacks, mechanics can get it wrong just as easily as ramp rats and wingwalkers. It's down to the INDIVIDUAL... the person makes the difference, not the union and not the workgroup. Where are the mechanics on the hundreds of UA flights pushed and received every day worldwide entirely without incident? What about the errors, accidents and collisions that happened on MX watch? Are you saying the rate of incident was lower? Provide a source, please.


User currently offlineShenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1710 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 17473 times:

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 19):
Again...I'd love to see an independent, fact-based comparison covering similar time periods before I reevaluate my position. Short of that, I'll stand behind what I said.

Review the NTSB database, I'm sure there are all kinds of incidents that could be attributed to mechanics on the ground, as well as others.

Shit happens, nothings perfect, and if it was... there would be a lot less jobs in aviation.


Cheers


User currently offlinePictues From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 17228 times:

I've pushed quite a few planes back without any incedent, I'm not a mechanic and I don;t even work for an airline, I work for GlobeGround. I'm a ramper, we do all our pushes and tows, MX does the brakes, but at one time we did that too until a few incedents and Hudson General (at the time same company) decided it wasn't worth it so the mechanics do the brakes but that is all. I know at Air Canada the rampers do the normal push backs and tows for gate to gate, and maintenance does their tows to the hanger.

User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 16857 times:

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 19):
Again...I'd love to see an independent, fact-based comparison covering similar time periods before I reevaluate my position. Short of that, I'll stand behind what I said.

It's fine to back up your opinion, regardless of how limited your tunnel vision is. Of course, your signature must not apply to yourself. Here's an example of these "expert mechanics"...

This spring...GQ had a plane clip a QX de-ice truck (was a/c N182YV I believe). Guess who was taxing it, AND who had declined a marshaler and a wing walker? You got it right, some mechanic. Remind you this was in the gate area. A lead ramper tried to get his attention, but he just taxied away...and right into the truck. Until I see this 'fact-based comparison', I'll stand by the fact that following SOP, even if it's around an MX hanger during R & D, an actual pilot and/or rampers seem to have a better clue as to how to handle aircraft.


User currently offlineRampRat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1537 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 16798 times:

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 19):
Again...I'd love to see an independent, fact-based comparison covering similar time periods before I reevaluate my position. Short of that, I'll stand behind what I said

Well, the mechanics only did the R&D in about 25% of the system stations. That means Ramp Servicemen, and Customer Service reps have been doing R&D in 75% of the system before the mechanics lost it. If us ramp rats, and keyboard pushers were damaging so many aircraft in the past twenty years. Why didn't WHQ have maintenance take over R&D in all the stations then? I don't care if it's a $30.00 a hour mechanic, or a $8.00 a hour ramper. Things like this happen.


25 HAWK21M : Damn.These things should be avoided. Any link that lists reported Ground Incidents. regds MEL
26 MX757 : I agree with you but I can guarantee that it is still cheaper for ramp agents to push back aircraft. No matter how much damage they do. I think airli
27 Sudden : Hi guys, lets try to keep this a bit professional. I worked as loadmaster for 4 years at GOT and we never had a wingman walking with us. We also never
28 DeC : Word. My heart almost stopped when i saw the topic title!
29 HPRamper : Back to the good old argument...how much training does pushing an aircraft take? Because obviously, pay scale reflects how "good" of an employee you
30 Pilotaydin : what are the ramifications? will anyone get fired? or is it cheaper to retrain someone?
31 Sudden : I second that as I was responsible for all actions being done around the A/C. Also to give clearance regarding push (safety issue) to flightdeck. Pil
32 Starlionblue : What's with the sudden urge to fire someone? If you fire someone based on one mistake, that only ensures that others will try to hide their mistakes,
33 777adoration : Same here! When you see collide and planes in the subject line, I don't know why but I tend to think the worst.
34 242 : Depending on the company, a typical punishment for a first incident like this would be a drug test, a detailed written report from each worker involv
35 CWAFlyer : Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't United's ramp people in SEA union (IAM)? Stuff is gonna happen sometimes regardless of unions and pay. Didn't Nor
36 StevenUhl777 : Yes..ramp is IAM in SEA, as elsewhere. Only mechanics at UA are in AMFA (like NW). That comment wasn't needed...if you want to disagree with me, hey
37 Francoflier : I agree. He/She might be given a slap on the wrist, a few days off with no pay and a few 'tender' words from his/her crew chief. Plus, as said above,
38 Christao17 : It would be interesting to see these numbers. I suspect that the airlines that no longer have mechanics do push-backs didn't make the decision to do
39 Gilligan : Well maybe at UA but not necessarily elsewhere. I've seen plenty of fine mechanics do some stupid things that resulted in AC damage, not to mention s
40 KBGRbillT : Wouldn't a collosion be two moving objects coming in contact under their own power? This is just a ground accident, lets not so dramatic Clickhappy!!!
41 AeroWesty : "Collide" is usually "a brief event in which two or more bodies come together", one of which may be stationary, and "bodies" do not have to be human.
42 As739x : I just got some pic's from the scene. It's not aweful. Alaska got the worse end of things. Half way up the rudder the 777 wing tip put a 3 inch slice.
43 UAcosCS : Not the first for any airline, this happens several times a year with Multiple airlines. Have you ever been around a busy ramp before? I disagree, I
44 MattRB : Any reg on the UA plane? Edit: NM.. just checked the FAA site - they have it listed as N223UA[Edited 2005-08-26 00:05:49]
45 727Stretch : One of the reasons we may see more incidents with Ramp doing the R&D is they only have two (or less) years experience performing the task at UA. Righ
46 StevenUhl777 : I was being VERY sarcastic when I posted the original comment...If you read my other posts, you'll see I'm in support of R&D staying with the mechani
47 Flyabunch : First of all, I am not an airline employee, just a regular passenger. I fly at least 80 flights per year and I usually sit in a window seat. One of th
48 ACDC8 : Just a question. I don't recall seeing very many wingwalkers in Europe, only the tug driver and sometimes the ramp agent who's in radio contact with t
49 UAcosCS : 2 YEARS? The most Jr in our station has 8 1/2 years. Is that enough time to perform such a task? I disagree, why pay a guy 40+ dollars an hour to pus
50 Pictues : Possibly the amount of time since the mechanics stopped pushing the aircraft
51 HPRamper : People often work better when given extra responsibility. This isn't all people mind you, but if someone told me that all I was ever going to do was w
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