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Sleeping On The Job Allowed?  
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17338 posts, RR: 46
Posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4433 times:

I've noticed at several airlines that there seems to be a problem with employees sleeping on planes overnight, especially if the plane has first or business class seats. I'm not familiar with contracts but I'm guessing that no matter what your job is, sleeping is not allowed while you are on the clock. Does this happen at your airline? Who in their right mind thinks it's ok to sleep while you're on the clock? Is it actually in a contract?

[Edited 2005-08-25 20:47:01]


E pur si muove -Galileo
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4418 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Thread starter):
Does this happen at your airline

No time for Sleeping.Although there are a few characters that dose off during spare time.
All Pax Airlines out here,Employees are not permitted to be seated in the Foward seats unless Cabin cleaning has not started.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offline242 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 498 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4380 times:

It happens. There are always a few people that try to get away with as much as they can. I'm sure similar goofing off goes on at other workplaces.

Another situation is late night irregular ops. With crew lounges overflowing, many times I've seen stranded flight/cabin crews seek refuge in overnight aircraft.


User currently offlineFiaz From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4176 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I know that it is a CRIME for any crew members to fall asleep on any PIA flight

Fiaz


User currently offline777Purser From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 219 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4156 times:

It is contractual that crew member have the right to a rest period. The "Crew Rest" varies depending on the length of the flight and the breaks are coordinated by the Purser. While Crew Rest seats are often designated, inconspicuously enclosed or covered by a curtain, it happens that sometimes if they are broken or INOP, BC seats or FC seats are designated for Crew Rest. Pilots for instance always get 2 blocked seats in the FC cabin on Long range flying. Much to your surprise, crewmembers are human beings that need to rest...we even eat and go to the bathroom sometimes...

Some of you wannabe airline people in this forum just have no common sense...


User currently offlineTrolley Dolley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4106 times:

Sorry, your post is not clear. When you say overnight, does this refer to the time the aircraft is on the ground between the last flight of the day and the first of the morning, or on an overnight flight?

User currently offlineSonOfACaptain From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1747 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4095 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Thread starter):
employees sleeping on planes overnight, especially if the plane has first or business class seats.

Ah yes, I see it now. "Due to cutbacks at Airline ABC, we have decided that instead of giving aircrews a hotel to sleep in at nights, they will now be forced to sleep on the plane on their trips."  wink 

-SOAC



Non Illegitimi Carborundum
User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2224 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4088 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Yes it happens all the time and yes, it can even be a firing offense especially if it's happened before. It is considered theft of time.


Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineVHXLR8 From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 500 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4075 times:

Quoting 777Purser (Reply 4):
Much to your surprise, crewmembers are human beings that need to rest...we even eat and go to the bathroom sometimes...

I'm shocked and appalled!!! Don't be stupid 777Purser, we're not supposed to sleep or eat or use the bathroom!! We're flight attendants, not people!!

Haha, don't you love the looks you get from some pax when they come into the galley and see you eating. Or when you're eating J class food (as is the norm) and pax comment about eating the 'good stuff'.


User currently offlineAlanUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4025 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Thread starter):
I'm guessing that no matter what your job is, sleeping is not allowed while you are on the clock.

Nah! Who needs to rest on a 16 hour duty from Singapore to London? What do you think?!!!

Yes, we are ALLOWED to sleep, in fact, the law in the UK requires airlines to give their staff HORIZONTAL rest of 3 hours if the duty day exceeds 12 hours...

I'm always amazed by this sort of comments... Just like passengers still sometimes ask me "are you going back now then?" when I land in, let's say Mexico, following a 11hour flight from London! My answer is always "oh yes, but we are flying via Hong Kong first, then home!"

Safe flying all.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3980 times:

Quoting VHXLR8 (Reply 8):
Haha, don't you love the looks you get from some pax when they come into the galley and see you eating

I dont mind that.For they work put in.
BTW they even offer Mx guys a Coffee too when they prepare the galley for the 1st flight after We are all tired from the snagged night  Smile
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineFlybmi330 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3974 times:

On my transatlantic flights, once the service is finished, I'll let 2-3 crew at a time go on a break, can be 1-2 hours depending on flight time/pax loads.
If they want to grab some shut eye, that's fine with me.
Looking after the crew has a direct result on the way the pax are treated.
Steve


User currently offlineVgnAtl747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3856 times:

We had a couple instances where our high-speed RON aircraft came in late, resulting in the crew only being on the ground for about 3 hours. The captain decided it wasn't worth them wasting an hour (30 minutes each way) to the hotel, so they chose to nap on the aircraft.

Is that what you're refering to?



Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
User currently offline777purser From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 219 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3812 times:

[quote=VHXLR8,reply=8]Haha, don't you love the looks you get from some pax when they come into the galley and see you eating. Or when you're eating J class food (as is the norm) and pax comment about eating the 'good stuff'.

HAHAHAAA!! Yes, they look at you surprised...like they have never seen someone eat...and then quickly glance at your plate to see what you are eating, followed by the "eating the good stuff commentyou refer to....Geeez!

I'll tell you what else, sometimes on short flights we serve no food and then the pasengers start asking how come we are eating (food we bring from our homes or buy at the terminal) As a matter of fact, there have been complaint letters sent to management from passengers bothered by FA's eating on "beverage only" flights.

Also, I like to buy magazines and newspapers...well they even want those! I got a huge paycut 3 years ago, still buy my food and reading material...passengers want 39.99 fares and all the amenities....AND GOD FORBID YOU SLEEP....EVER!


User currently offline777Purser From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 219 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3799 times:

Quoting M404 (Reply 7):
Yes it happens all the time and yes, it can even be a firing offense especially if it's happened before. It is considered theft of time.

HUH? What is it that you do for a living? If anything it can be considered an FAA violation as a safety issue as no one is monitoring the cabin. However, breaks are coordinated so there is always a FA awake in every cabin for safety purposes and to attend passengers needs.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17338 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3752 times:

Quoting Trolley Dolley (Reply 5):
When you say overnight, does this refer to the time the aircraft is on the ground between the last flight of the day and the first of the morning, or on an overnight flight?

I'm not talking about crews on longhaul flights--crew rest is built into their contract and their flight pattern and that's understandable. I'm talking about mechanics, airport employees, aircraft cleaners, etc taking naps in planes when they have a normal 8 or 10 (or whatever) hour shift.

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 9):
Nah! Who needs to rest on a 16 hour duty from Singapore to London? What do you think?!!!

Not what I'm talking about!!!

Quoting VgnAtl747 (Reply 12):
Is that what you're refering to?

No. Legal/contracted crew rest is exactly that--legal and in their respective contract.

Quoting 777purser (Reply 13):
Or when you're eating J class food (as is the norm) and pax comment about eating the 'good stuff'.

On an unrelated note, it's a pet peeve of mine when people comment on the stuff you're eating. I empathize with crew members eating, standing up, in the back galley trying to gain some privacy while passengers are circulating through the lavs.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3607 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3747 times:

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 9):
Nah! Who needs to rest on a 16 hour duty from Singapore to London? What do you think?!!!

Rest, yes... sleep?? Not so sure about that. Who can't go 16 hours without sleeping when they're being paid to work?

My wife works double shifts as a nurse sometimes. 24 hours straight. You think she gets to sleep? I doubt she even makes any more money than you. Sometimes she doesn't even get to eat, much less take a break of any length.

In the US, any 8 hour shift is supposed to have one 30 minute break for meal time. (Contrary to public belief, there is no requirement for breaks other than that.) So a 16 hour shift would have a mandatory one hour rest period, or two 30 minute rest periods. That's it. I suppose you could sleep during that time, but if I owned the company you worked for, you sure as hell wouldn't be doing it in front of the passengers... (that's why planes have crew rest areas.)

I'm sure F/A union contracts stipulate longer or more frequent breaks than what's required by law. But a lot of people in the world work 16 hours or more without sleeping - I'm not sure why some of you are acting like this is impossible for human beings to do. Especially when you consider that you don't do that every day, you have off days in between. (To go back to my previous example, most nurses only work 3 days per week, 12 to 24 hours per shift. From what I know of F/A schedules, it's a similar situation for long-haul service.)



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineKLMcedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 810 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3679 times:

One must not forget that working conditions on a plane are slightly
different then at sealevel.
The amount of oxygen you have is comparable to a high skistation.
This may seem unnoticable two most of passengers, but try to compare
with doing physical efforts in the mountains.
Also the humidity level is approx. 10 times lower than on the ground,which
is also not the most comfortable workcondition.
You can not compare working in the air with on the ground.
It is not only in our,but also in the passenger's best interest that we get
some horizontal rest on longhaul flights.
Even if it's only for one hour or so, I feel almost reborn after such a rest period.I'm then completely ready to go give my best to the pax, and much more alert might emergency situations occur.
Maverick, I know you didn't refer to crew, but some other posters in here seem not to understand why crew badly need some rest on 10 to 16hrs shifts.
Regards.


User currently offlinePat From Belgium, joined Aug 2000, 110 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3613 times:

Well my friends, I guess that FA also need some rest indeed on some long haul flights in some conditions ( short night-stop, etc, ...), on the other hand being a full paying pax in C class turns me mad sometimes when I think of some crew members having had a 3 days stop + their "siesta" in the afternoon after the flight and who still need to rush rush the meal service in order to collapse on their crew rest seats ... and I refer to flights of 8h or less ...

Don't forget that the revenue pax are still the one paying your wages by the end of the month ... think it had to be said, right ?

Pat


User currently offline777Purser From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 219 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3515 times:

Hi Maverick, thank you for clarifying what your posdt was about, I am glad you do have an understanding of crew rest on long haul flights. As for the other employees...ground personnel and such...I guess techniically they would not be allowed to be napping on the aircraft...but aircraft utilization is such nowadays that a plane does not stay on the ground too long ...ever...they are cleaned and turned around ASAP...my best guess is they would not have too much time for that purpose anyway... PEACE

User currently offline777Purser From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 219 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3483 times:

Quoting Pat (Reply 18):
some crew members having had a 3 days stop + their "siesta" in the afternoon after the flight

Hey Pat, you are going to have to give me the name of the airline that still has such sequences because where I work we even have all nighters to South America, short layover during the day and then all nighter back the same day in the name of productivity... Oh well...I guess we should just be glad we still have a job for 30% less than what we were making 3 years ago, no rest, no food...seems to be the point of view of many people out there...OH! and lets not forget lower fares than ever as the passenger is so price sensitive....

HI, I am a ZOMBIE...Welcome aboard!  Wink


User currently offlineAlanUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3468 times:

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 16):
Rest, yes... sleep?? Not so sure about that.

What difference does it make? The crew are out of sight of passengers when this occurs, so whether the crew "rest" or "sleep" in the bunks... Why should you care? The main fact is that half the crew is still on duty at any one time.

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 16):
wife works double shifts as a nurse sometimes. 24 hours straight.

Exactly... double shift, so she CHOOSES to do that, and even if she doesn't, she has agreed to her conditions. I've agreed to mine, which says 3 hours in a bed on a long range flight.

Quoting KLMcedric (Reply 17):
One must not forget that working conditions on a plane are slightly
different then at sealevel.

Thank you!

Quoting Pat (Reply 18):
on the other hand being a full paying pax in C class turns me mad sometimes when I think of some crew members having had a 3 days stop + their "siesta" in the afternoon after the flight and who still need to rush rush the meal service in order to collapse on their crew rest seats ...

Crew shouldn't be seen "colapsing on their crew seats", the airline provides dedicated rest areas out of sight, usually in the forms of bunk beds below the tails or in the belly of the aircraft.

To finish off, I would say that it's better to have crew rested than not, as the outcome will be a better, happier service.

Safe flying all.


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3320 times:

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 16):
(Contrary to public belief, there is no requirement for breaks other than that.)

Depends on what state you're in. In California, you are required to take (and your employer is required to give) one thirty minute unpaid break for each period of six or more hours wourked. You are also required to take (and must be given) one 15 minute paid break for every four hours worked. (So, for an 8 hour shift you would have a :30 unpaid lunch and two :15 paid breaks).

I'm not sure if this part was an employer reg or part of the state law, but breaks may not be taken at the beginning or end of a shift.

According to California's Department of Labor you (the employee) MUST take all of these rest periods and may not waive/refuse to take any of them. I tried (hince the official opnion I got from the DOL after asking "do I really have to waste all of the time or does the employer just have to offer it?"  Smile).



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineContinental From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5506 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3307 times:

Quoting 777Purser (Reply 20):
Oh well...I guess we should just be glad we still have a job for 30% less than what we were making 3 years ago, no rest, no food...seems to be the point of view of many people out there...OH! and lets not forget lower fares than ever as the passenger is so price sensitive....

I don't wanna be a jerk, but that's the job you chose, and if you don't like it, then quit. And who cares if we do want our fares cheap? With the economy the way it is today, of course passengers are going to be price sensitive.


User currently offlineAlanUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3273 times:

Quoting Continental (Reply 23):
I don't wanna be a jerk, but that's the job you chose, and if you don't like it, then quit.

I don't wish to answer for Purser777 (I'm sure he/she will answer you directly), but Continental, I'm afraid you are a JERK for saying that!

It says you're a 16-20 year old student, then I suggest you start studying hard because that kind of statement will get you no-where in the working world, especially not if you are in a position that involves management!

Purser777, like me, joined the airline industry with a contract that was agreed at a time. That is the job we chose to do, and the conditions we agreed to.

To expect staff to take pay cuts, change in working practices without a battle is unfair, and your remarks about quitting are just wrong. If we had agreed to a contract and then complained about it, perhaps we should reconsider our career paths, but there is obviously a big difference for Purser777 between the terms and conditions of employment at date of joining and now.

Whichever career you decide to commit to, I do hope your conditions remain the same for your life of employment, but if they change don't expect sympathy from me!

In the meantime, safe flying!


25 777Purser : Thanks Alan, I really did not feeel like getting into it with some clueless teenager. I will tell you though, that in a way we have adapted and are op
26 Legacy135 : On all the airlines I know and I worked for, a "part" of the crew can go for a sleep if the flight is of a real long duty. Normally on those aircrafts
27 Continental : What are you talking about!? If anything, it'll get me even farther! I was basically saying suck it up and stop complaining! Seems to me Purser777 wa
28 777PURSER : Read my last post, see if you grasp a couple things....read the whole theard I am sure you are a smart guy and will follow better what was being disc
29 Dougloid : Back in the day I was supposed to get some B727 overnight maintenance training from TWA....they had an agreement with the FBO I worked for....so the
30 Post contains images Leezyjet : You really think that do you. Sounds like you have an awful lot of growing up to do before you are ready for the real world. Ass might and I stress m
31 Dougloid : Mirabile dictu, as my old Latin teacher used to say all those years ago...words to live by. Thanks for a reasoned and well thought out statement with
32 Post contains images Continental : Yes, yes I do. Maybe it's different in the UK, but here in the US if you get pay cuts, benefit cuts, etc., you take it as it is otherwise you're done
33 Post contains images AndrewUber : Only union employees can sleep on the job. I see it every night. Oh and they do it for $60,000 per year, too. And people wonder how an airline like NW
34 Dougloid : The reason that scabs do not sleep on the job is the same reason a whore can't sleep on the job-the pimps won't allow the whore any rest. when you ar
35 Syncmaster : As a 'scab', I can tell you that's 100% Untrue.
36 Post contains images AndrewUber : Vindictive? Party of one? Your table is now available. When you're a scab (or when you employ a group of scabs as I do), you learn the meaning of wor
37 Dougloid : You guys just don't get it. You're there until someone comes in with a lower price. Then you're done. Nobody-nobody will hold the bag for you. When t
38 Post contains images AndrewUber : ...but our bills will have been paid, our wives and kids will be fed, and we will be waiting for the next band of union superheroes to walk off the j
39 AndrewUber : Druglord - Does your "buddy" know that you think he's a bottom-feeder? Does he know you have no respect for him? Your true colors are shining through
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