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What Ever Happened To United Express BAe APT  
User currently offlineLiedetectors From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 360 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5205 times:

Hey sports fans!

I was bored tonight so i got to thinking about older airplanes and airliners that were used in the US. One thing that got me thinking was what ever happened to the United Express Fleet of ATPs? I do not have much knowledge as to the specifics of this airplane so if you guys could answer the following questions that would be great.

*What years were they flown
*Where were they flown too
*Which airline offically operated the flights
*Why were they retired
*Has anyone here ever flown on one
*Do these people have any stories/memories to share

[img]http://www.airliners.net/open.file/729448/M/ [/img]

Thanks.


If it was said by us, then it must be true.
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLiedetectors From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5195 times:

lets try this again.



I see this is operated by Air Wisky, did any others operate it?

[Edited 2005-08-26 04:16:05]


If it was said by us, then it must be true.
User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7542 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5171 times:

Going back in my archives,I found this. They were called "United Feeder Service" . callsign was 'Feeder-flight'. Cities served were:AZO,CAK,FWA,GRB,ORD,PIA,SBN & YNG.

Ownership was UFS Inc , associated with Trans States Airlines.

IATA was 'U2'

They had 9 ATP's that were Y64.

I saw a bunch @ IGM this Spring.

That's about it.



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineKjet12 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 976 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5122 times:

I flew them many times between CWA and ORD. It was probably the nicest turboprop from a pax perspective. I believe these aircraft were replaced with DO-328s, which were ultimately replaced with the CRJ.

Kris



AA - Doing what we do best.
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7737 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5126 times:

The aircraft in the photo is the first production aircraft, G-MATP (note the ATP in the reg) and was never operated by United Express but was painted in their c/s by BAe for promotional purposes.

I saw three of the aircraft that were operated by United Express at Chicago O'Hare on 10/27/91. All were in full United c/s with United Express main and Air Wisconsin supplementary titles. They were N851AW, N856AW and N857AW. On 7/24/92 I was again at ORD and again clocked three of these aircraft, namely N852AW, N857AW (again) and N858AW. All were in United c/s with United Express main titles but now none had any supplementary titles. I think this change was because the aircraft were leased by United Feeder Service from Air Wisconsin.

I believe that the a/c that were operated in United Express c/s were in the reg range N851AW to N860AW.

At least one of the aircraft was converted into a freighter and is I believe now operated by West Air Luxembourg (LX-WAN). Some were and may still be stored in Arizona.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5844 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5084 times:

United Feeder Service operated one ATP route I had a chance to fly years ago on a ORD-CAK-YNG routing. Interesting flight, I was used to being asked to change seats for balance on turboprops. But at CAK all of us headed for YNG were asked to move to seats in the rear of the aircraft. First time I'd done that at an intermediate stop.


"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3847 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5069 times:

whyed they get rid of them? they look alot larger and than saabs. Was it a workhorse too?

User currently offlineN774UA From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 343 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5020 times:

You can go to www.airlinerlist.com and search the ATP spreadsheet.

regards
N774UA



...follow his instructions, switch off at the stand.
User currently offlineDerik737 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 333 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4965 times:

From what I remember, the ATP was an airplane plagued with problems. The airlines that purchased them were very dissastisfied and and therefore sales never took off.

User currently offlineJamake1 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1023 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4943 times:

On a road trip to the Grand Canyon a few years back, I saw a whole fleet of them parked in Kingman, AZ after they had been withdrawn from United Express service...


United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4938 times:

Emerald Airways of Liverpool have some of the old Air Wisconsin ATPs

User currently offlineRedDragon From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 1135 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4908 times:

Quoting Kjet12 (Reply 3):
It was probably the nicest turboprop from a pax perspective.

Really? I've always got the impression that the ATP was a hateful aircraft, but that's not really from any direct sources. In fact, any information about the ATP would be gratefully received!  Smile

Rich


User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4902 times:

They are a pig to work on, pilots hate them and they are British through and through Big grin And noisy! Only thing to compare with them was a C-130 Big grin

One nickname for them was "The Bomber" - speaks volumes doesnt it.

Andy  old 



Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
User currently offlineRedDragon From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 1135 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4895 times:

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 12):
[litany of disaster]

Don't forget "ugly"!


User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4826 times:

The Avro/HS/BAe 748 was a rugged and succesful aircraft in the mould of the F-27 to which it came 2nd in sales but with which it provided access to many remote, difficult and low yield destinations on a profitable basis.

Testament to their success is the number still in service, still providing reliable daily service without special handling or maintenance.

BAe, looking at the growth in the commuter market and the way the ATR42/72 and Dash 7/8 market was shaping decided to stretch a winning formula and, using just about every upgrade it could think of, produce another Woodford Winner.

Sometimes you can upgrade stretch and develop but a gap of over 25 years between the start of the 748 project and the ATP project was a stretch too far.

Sometimes it's best to start over with a blank sheet of paper. That's what BAe failed to do and they designed a lemon.

From the long nose wheel to allow commuters the luxury of using an airbridge to the over sophistication of the cockpit, from problems with the engines to collapsing undercarriages, through unacceptable noise levels to some very interesting stories of rough air handling, if it could be wrong the ATP made it so - or so it seemed.

Too late to the market, too big for most commuter airlines and not as versatile or rugged as the 748, this unloved and unlovely last civilian design from Woodford pretty much equalled the horrendous reputation the first post war airliner from the same stable - the Tudor - had. Thankfully it hasn't had the accident record the Tudor had but it looks as if it will end up as the Tudor did - hauling freight in small numbers until the cost of spares becomes too much.


User currently offlinePresRDC From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 664 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4748 times:

I'm a veteran of many UFS ATP flights on the SBN-ORD route. Not my favorite aircraft, but it always did the job -- getting us across the Lake.

User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4616 posts, RR: 23
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4705 times:

Flew the plane a couple times in the old TOL-ORD run. Not a bad plane. They operated them 4 times a day between TOL and ORD, along with 4 Dash 8-300s before they pulled out in Feb of 92.

User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2999 posts, RR: 31
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4659 times:

Air Wisconsin bought them and were the only US operator to do so if I recall correctly. For a time Wings West (folded into American Eagle) was going to get them to backfill former AirCal routes for AA that were not supporting 737's like BUR-OAK. But that fell through.

United bought Air Wisconsin and along with it owned the BAe 146 and the ATP's. After a couple of years when United spit out Air Wisconsin, the broke them into three divisions. Mesa took over some of the Denver flying, Air Wisconsin itself (in the current incarnation) was born again with the 146's, and the ATPs were spun off into UFS United Feeder Service, which indeed was related to TranStates. So by virtue of that, UFS was also an ATP operator, but it was the same Air Wisconsin routes and markets.

UFS did not have a particularly good reputation or record, although because they were an all-ATP airline I'm not sure the the ATP's bad rep came from UFS core problems, or if UFS bad rep came from ATP problems.


User currently offlineLiedetectors From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4617 times:

This is all intresting news, i am instrested in pre 1990 airline operation, (i dont know why). few more questions:

was United Feeder Service operate as that name (like the Shuttle by United)?

or was that a brand name like United Express?



If it was said by us, then it must be true.
User currently offlineKjet12 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 976 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4551 times:

Quoting RedDragon (Reply 11):
Really? I've always got the impression that the ATP was a hateful aircraft, but that's not really from any direct sources. In fact, any information about the ATP would be gratefully received!

About a year ago, I was non-revving on an Air Wisconsin flight and ended up being seated next to a pilot from the company. We breifly chatted about the aircraft and he mentioned that he flew them for a short while and they were basically a pile of junk.

My perspective as a passenger was that they were quite spacious (more so than the current CRJ-200s), and no louder than a Saab 340 or ATR. They were definately an interesting aircraft.

Kris



AA - Doing what we do best.
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4542 times:

I remember a story a former Air Wisconsin pilot (now flies for Midwest) told me in MKE...

He flew the ATP, and once on landing, one of the engines shut off...so about 75% of the pax asked why, and he just said it was normal. Truth be told, it happened a lot.


User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4465 times:

I also hear this aircraft was not pressurized, and had tons of W&B problems... seeing as the baggage was up front, they had to seat the back of the airplane first and there were rows that would be blocked off until those seats were filled. The aircraft could not fly above 10,000 ft... so I'm told.

User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4438 times:

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 21):
I also hear this aircraft was not pressurized, and had tons of W&B problems... seeing as the baggage was up front, they had to seat the back of the airplane first and there were rows that would be blocked off until those seats were filled. The aircraft could not fly above 10,000 ft... so I'm told.

Do you believe everything you are told behind the school yard bike sheds?

The aircraft is pressurised, has a service ceiling of 29,000 feet and any aircraft that is going to operate outside a certain load level will have rows blocked for weight and balance.


User currently offlineUPSMD11 From United States of America, joined May 2003, 819 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4410 times:
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I had the privelege of flying one of these between ORD and Peoria, IL once. It was a non-eventful flight but I was a bit taken aback by the whole experience as I felt I was slipping back a decade or so in regards to air transport.

Glad I have it in my list of planes I have flown... Concorde will never be and I doubt a 747SP will be at this point.

Cheers,
John


User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3539 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4402 times:

i flew on this a few times between MLI and ORD when i was a little kid. I very much preferred the Bae-146 just because i always thought it was sweet. I always thought the ATP looked pretty cool, it was just quite dingy on the inside from what i remember. I remember going to pick up my aunt at MLI and watching from the gate as her airplane landed and it was an ATP...

good times those days



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