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Delta To Add 30% New International Flights?  
User currently offlineNotdownnlocked From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 919 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11570 times:

I had heard from some different sources that DL was planning to add 30%+ more international flights than they have now. Some of these people have been in meetings over the last few days with CEO Greinstien. We all know that many 767's(most models) and 738's will transferred over to international flights. My question is this: Some that have attended these meetings have said they were told these are routes have been applied for but cannot be named for competitive reasons, but if I have seen that once an airline applies for a specific route especially in the US it becomes public knowledge especially since one can search the government documents online. I have even been told that many of the 763's flying domestic now will retain their domestic seating arrangements but will fly internationally especially South from ATL (a/c 1701-1705) no matter what the present catering provisions are or anything else. I know of routes applied ATL-China, JFK-EZE/MEX, and have read here about ATL-ANU/MGA/various Mexican cities. Please post here what you see as the newest route authorities applied for and please document also. Example:ATL-MGA. Thanks.

67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 11504 times:

Well, my fingers are crossed.


The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4011 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 11475 times:

It would be a shock to see that much of a rise in international flying and have Delta NOT have Boston be part of the mix. Bottom line: how telling would it be if Delta bypassed Boston right after debuting its big, new terminal there?
To be sure, I don't know of any obvious winners in terms of Boston flights--at least those that aren't already served by other carriers. But S. America is one region with very little in the way of nonstops out of Boston. Europe is practically maxed out, and don't expect Delta to try London again (that they are trying SFO and LAX again surprises me, in a 'haven't-we-seen-this-movie-before' sort of way).

In any event, with no untapped nuggets to Europe it would seem that Delta's likely foray for international flying out of Boston might well be South America. Then again, if it were such a goldmine then someone would have tried before.

And that leaves Asia. Thanks to the high-tech meltdown that hasn't really subsided, the demand for Asian flights out of Boston is nil. Gone is Korean Air, and the only other flight we 'almost had' was the nonstop MD-11 to Narita that American Airlines announced, scheduled and advertised...but never started.

Chris in NH


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5900 posts, RR: 40
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 11470 times:

hope they will improve the service to colombia one day (mde, clo service from atl) + jfk service from bog, (overnight flight ex jfk too bog).

regards



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineTpaewr From United States of America, joined May 2001, 450 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 11439 times:

And so it begins. The majors have and will still more so turn to int'l to shield them from the tumult of the domestic market, which I think will get ever more ugly as time passes. As the LCCs struggle to place the hundreds of planes ordered in the past few years,and as RJs reach a saturation point ; You'll see more atypical behavior such as WN code sharing. More collapes and BKs.

Even Int'l will remain no harbour. Already many Latin and beach markets in the range of a narrow-body are seeing LCC beachheads. Sending the majors farther afield with their widebodies.

I think we will see the near int'l market (ie 737/320 range), the "low lying" fruit flooded shortly as well. Already much of the CRBN has seen it's yield plunge. There after as AA,CO,DL and et al send their fleets farther out, it will be the quickest and most nimble who make it. Those late to the party will find little is left.


User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 11400 times:

It makes sense. Yields to Latin America and Europe are higher than Domestic. But you will most likely not see a pulling out of domestic markets all together, just a paring of frequency and gauge. Cutting Domestic ASMs by 10% would allow for a shift that large.

Ironic that what AA gained in DFW with Delta's withdrawal they just might see taken away in Latin America yields/revenue.

Now queue the AA Latinophiles that will say shift this large will "have no effect on them"....LOL


User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 11353 times:

tpaewr

This is only temporary. It will not take that much to trash Intl yields as well. Delta's is not the only major to look at expanding Internationally. By the time this equilibrium is reached between Domestic and International the full service carriers will have narrowed the cost gap yet again.


User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 11327 times:

YTD 2005 Yields and Yield Growth from the ATA

Domestic 11.64 (1.8)
Atlantic 10.89 5.5
Latin America 12.27 (1.6)
Asia 9.96 5.6


User currently offlineZone1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1034 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 11237 times:

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 2):
It would be a shock to see that much of a rise in international flying and have Delta NOT have Boston be part of the mix. Bottom line: how telling would it be if Delta bypassed Boston right after debuting its big, new terminal there?

I really can't see DL flying international out of BOS until Massport allows them to have a customs facility in A. Massport is a bunch of crooks and it wouldn't suprise me if there was some closed door deal making to not allow customs in A. Everyone says Massport doesn't want customs in A because they just built E, but it really doesn't make any sense. More flights = more money.

Since it seems like DL is going more after Latin America they have some gaps to fill: http://www.delta.com/planning_reserv...route_maps/south_america/index.jsp

It's too bad they don't have the equipment to go after the higher yielding Asia routes. Restarting HKG would be nice. A flight to KUL to feed MH once they join SkyTeam would also be good.



/// U N I T E D
User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 11218 times:

Quoting Notdownnlocked (Thread starter):
I had heard from some different sources that DL was planning to add 30%+ more international flights than they have now. Some of these people have been in meetings over the last few days with CEO Greinstien.

Who are these people please?


User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 11218 times:

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 2):
Then again, if it were such a goldmine then someone would have tried before.

Don't be so sure. Boston-South America is definitely not a priority but I think a well-timed flight to GRU or GIG would do well. And I do think a flight may have already started if it weren't for the economic downturn the past 4-5 years. It certainly would be a coup for DL over AA who is generally perceived as the main carrier to the Caribbean/Latin America.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 11172 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 9):
Who are these people please?

Maybe it's the new VP of route development? The guy the brought over from Alitalia who was previously was at Continental?


User currently offlineWorldflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 11117 times:

DL is actively seeking new US-Mexico authority:

CVG-SJD eff 12/3, Sat/Sun
ATL-MID eff 3/25, Sat/Sun/Mon
NYC-CZM eff 3/4, Sat
NYC-SJD eff 3/4, Sat
NYC-PVR eff 3/4, Sat
NYC-ACA eff 3/11, Sat

http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.c...m?documentid=343167&docketid=22243


User currently offlineRojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2431 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 11078 times:

Quoting Notdownnlocked (Thread starter):
I know of routes applied ATL-China, JFK-EZE/MEX, and have read here about ATL-ANU/MGA/various Mexican cities. Please post here what you see as the newest route authorities applied for and please document also. Example:ATL-MGA. Thanks.

They already fly JFK-MEX and hold route authority, which hopefully they will keep. Although I am not that sure; their recent withdraw from the LAX-MEX market makes me think DL does not have a clear strategy on flights to Mexico!!! For example, they only fly B757's to MEX which sometimes is too big for certain markets...


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11117 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10963 times:

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 5):
Ironic that what AA gained in DFW with Delta's withdrawal they just might see taken away in Latin America yields/revenue.

I don't think AA really needs to worry too much.

Quoting LH423 (Reply 10):
Boston-South America is definitely not a priority but I think a well-timed flight to GRU or GIG would do well.

No way, IMO. The O&D on BOS-South America is too small, and BOS is too close to JFK.

Quoting LH423 (Reply 10):
It certainly would be a coup for DL over AA who is generally perceived as the main carrier to the Caribbean/Latin America.

Not really much of a "coup," IMO, as DL is still, even with all of its new, applied for, rumored, or proposed here on A.net routes, a drop in the bucket compared to AA in virtually every metric imaginable -- flights, routes, cities, gateways, frequencies, capacity. You name it, AA has DL beat every time.


User currently offlineNotdownnlocked From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 919 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10934 times:

In reply to reply number 9, these are people invited from different departments within DL to attend this meeting that was held in ATL on 8/25 I believe the same day the CEO had a BBQ cookout for other DL employees. It wouldn't matter if I named them as you probably would not know their names anyway and I must protect their privacy.

In reply to reply 13-I should have said "ATL-China, JFK-EZE/VARIOUS Mexican cities", excepting MEX which the majority of us know JFK-MEX is a route that has been in existance for quite a number of years. I wish to see some of these authorities that have been applied for and have not been mentioned in previous threads. Most of us have also seen the thread that mentions MEX-PVR/ACA and others and ATL-PVR/MID and others.


User currently offlineGLAGAZ From UK - Scotland, joined Feb 2004, 1982 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10543 times:

Read on here last year that DL had applied for ATL-GLA but nothing came of it. Perhaps a Summer 2006 start with the 763?

Gaz



Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
User currently offlineDeltaA380 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 84 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10470 times:

Get the 777's and possibly the 764's out of European/Latin American and Domestic routes; start committing to serving Asian routes that we can gain access to and hopefully then money making routes like Beijing will come. I don't think we got the DOT approval for Beijing because we don't have any real committment to Asia. Seoul, with our SkyTeam partner KE would be a good place to compliment NRT service that a 764 should be able to do from LAX for example; it's a start until we can afford to get more 777's.

Oh, if only we could pull the Tristar's out of the desert and put them back in the clouds where they belong!



Vote Democratic in '06 and '08
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4792 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10442 times:
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It's really not that surprising when you consider the recently announced routes as well as the applications in progress, most of which are in the Carribbean, Central, and South America:

Announced/Approved:
ATL-GIG New
ATL-PUJ New
ATL-BGI New
ATL-SDQ New
ATL-MGA New (tba)
ATL-LIM Increase
ATL-SCL Increase
ATL-SXM Increase
ATL-CUN Increase
ATL-LIR Increase
CVG-MBJ Increase

Applied for:
JFK-EZE
JFK-ACA
JFK-SJD
JFK-CZM
JFK-PVR
ATL-MID
ATL-ANU
CVG-SJD
MCO-CUN
LAX-CZM
LAX-PVR
SLC-CZM

I'm sure I'm missing a few more applications in progress, especially for Mexico.


User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6840 posts, RR: 64
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10401 times:

If this 30% is true, will it have any bearing on Delta's apparent reluctance to take more 777s? It seems odd that UA and AA fly very large fleets of 777s and even CO have (or soon will) 20 or so but DL use just eight and don't much want the remaining five on order. (Even then, they'd have only 13.)

By the way, is it the case that DL really don't much want their last five 777s or that they would love to take them (and more?) but simply can't afford to?

I'd understand the latter but it has seemed for some time that DL almost wish they'd never ordered the 777 in the first place. They seem to show no enthusiasm for it. If so, I'm puzzled. It's obviously an excellent plane and very popular with all of DL's major US rivals (except NW). Why not DL?


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4792 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10366 times:
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Quoting PM (Reply 19):
It seems odd that UA and AA fly very large fleets of 777s and even CO have (or soon will) 20 or so but DL use just eight and don't much want the remaining five on order. (Even then, they'd have only 13.)

The problem is DL's network does not really require significantly more 777s. They probably could do with a few more for some European hub flying (CDG, MXP) but not many more. Both UA and AA use 777s heavily on LHR and transpacific routes, both of which are essentially absent from DL's network. If they were to start up more transpacific service, they would need them but at this point, they don't really have the financial resources to heavily invest in starting those up (not to mention the fact that they don't really have strategically important Western U.S. hubs for profitable transpacific flying)


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 46
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 10023 times:

IMHO 30% is not that unlikely if already known additions/applications within the last 6 months are included, but without those, it might be a bit much. But let's take a look at the possibilities:
-The 777 is already used to their max, so there won't be any additional flights with them, unless DL wants to give up having a back-up plane for NRT.

-The 764 is always rumored to be reconfigured with BizE for certain Euro routes where the 763 is too small and the 777 would be too big. IMHO, DL could possibly pull 5-7 764s off Florida routes, if they manage to make up for the capacity loss with more p2p routes on CRJs, but currently I doubt that, especially with half of the 764 fleet needed for Hawaii flights. Though I'd call it highly likely to see the 764 being deployed on more Caribbean/Lat Am routes like LIM, without the need for reconfiguration. Potential routes might be ATL-CUN/BOG/SDQ, and possibly even JFK-SDQ.

-The 763ER is pretty much maxed out, but capacity will be increased when the 8 domestic-configured 763Ers will be reconfigured back for international ops, with 4 reconfigured this winter and next winter. 2 are assigned for ATL-GIG during the summer, the other 6 allow for new routes or additional frequencies.

-The 763 will probably be used even more intensive to the Caribbean, based on its good carg capacity and of course also pax capacity, as is done on ATL-CUN/MBJ/SDQ, JFK-SDQ/STI (seasonal).

-The 757 and the ETOPS rumor. We’ll see about that, but should DL decide to get ETOPS for their 757s, I’d expect both DL mainline and also Song to use them to Europe.

-The 738 will be the main aircraft for the Mexican/Lat Am expansion, plus also the thinner Caribbean routes.

-The E70/CR7/CRJ will likely also be used to allow for more transborder routes from all hubs, depending on demand.

As for routes, of course new Euro routes can always be expected from both ATL and JFK.
We might also see lots of new routes to Canada, primarily from SLC on CRJs, mainline and/or CRJs from ATL and CVG, and on CRJs from both BOS and JFK.
Mexico routes are obviously important for DL now, and both ATL (with 738s) and SLC (with 738s and E70s) offer for a lot of potential new routes. JFK and CVG will likely be treated only secondary.
Caribbean/Lat Am/South Am will likely continue to be focused on ATL, JFK and SLC (in that order), though I wouldn’t be surprised to see a few Caribbean markets added from Florida as well.
As for exact routes, I could come up with quite a few, but I’ll write about those later (off to the A380 visit to Hamburg now  Wink )


User currently offlinePeachair From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 364 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9965 times:

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 2):
It would be a shock to see that much of a rise in international flying and have Delta NOT have Boston be part of the mix. Bottom line: how telling would it be if Delta bypassed Boston right after debuting its big, new terminal there?

Keep in mind that the new terminal in BOS does NOT have an FIS. In addition, the big plans DL had for BOS were in place long before 9/11 which changed things considerably. BOS airport was Leo's baby.

DL is going to put the airplanes where the money is.


User currently offlineRobertS975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 931 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 9552 times:
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Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 21):
We might also see lots of new routes to Canada, primarily from SLC on CRJs, mainline and/or CRJs from ATL and CVG, and on CRJs from both BOS and JFK.

Several years ago, DL had about 5 mainline flights a day to YUL, a route they inherited from Northeast Airlines. Then, the route was given over to DL Connection. Sadly, they have abandoned the route completely.

I have not heard any rumors about new DL long range international service from BOS during my Crown Room chats. I am a BOS based DL Platinum Medallion.


User currently offlineZone1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1034 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 9357 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 21):
Song to use them to Europe.

Song to Europe? I really can't see that happening. I doubt that they would serve cites both with mainline and Song. Who in their right mind would fly mainline when you have Song. Would they start new cities to Europe with Song instead? Because BOS is out (no FIS in A), BDL and JFK would be the only gateway cities. I doubt BDL could support international service, and I doubt they would want to cannibalize their mainline loads at JFK, unless they go to new thinner routes using Song.



/// U N I T E D
25 ERJ170 : Any possibility of new non-hub P2P transcon/international?
26 DAL767400ER : Massport is the main problem here, which would prevent Song from going to Europe (or DL int'l flights from BOS in general), I'm aware of that. One co
27 MAH4546 : Can't do BOS-CUN, AA and US do. And given AeroMexico's $1M+ losses on BOS-MEX, I don't see that happening. As in RDU-CUN? I wouldn't expect it.
28 B4real : If they are really gung-ho on Int'l expansion, I'd love to see 1x daily CVG-MEX on the MD-90.
29 RobertS975 : Pardon my ignorance, but what foes FIS stand for?
30 Delta4eva : I'd like to see Delta pull the 777s from European routes all together and devote them entirely to Asia. They could pull 8, maybe 9 764s from domestic
31 DAL767400ER : FIS= Federal Inspection Service, aka Immigration.
32 DeltaMIA : Federal Inspection Station - basically it is US Customs and Immigration. You are going to need to take into consideration it would be done with a tot
33 Post contains images DAL767400ER : I hardly ever consider anything posted on a.net factual, unless posted with a press release .
34 Post contains images DeltaGuy767 : You're damn right it couldn't, however BDL-JFK and then connection from JFK-Europe would be nice. Massport has been pulling this crap for years BOS h
35 BA747400 : Although I don't see it happening, I would GLADLY fly Song to Europe! The AA 757's don't have the PTV's in them....(I am flying BOS-MAN in November,
36 Cslusarc : I'm no fan of DL. DL doesn't have a chance to attract me to fly it, work for it or invest in it. I don't live in a city served by DL. [To take a DL fl
37 CVG777 : Delta's Business Elite seat is dramatically different from their Domestic First Class product. The International has a recline to 160 degrees, PTVs,
38 Post contains images YUL332LX : ROTFLMAO!!! Freakin' hilarious
39 LH423 : The Boston area has one of the largest Brazilian populations in the world outside of Brazil. Also, the Brazilian community is one of the more affluen
40 Zone1 : I don't really see any reason for them to be pulling this crap, other than to please someone else. If they were acting in Boston's and the airport's
41 ChrisNH : That there is no FIS at the new Delta Terminal A is an interesting point. Clearly, if Delta's new frontier for Boston and their new terminal were to b
42 RCS763AV : They will go to 763 on BOG-ATL. Dont think BOG-JFK is happening, given the results AA had on the route and that it is already codeshared with AV. Als
43 RwSEA : Umm ... both KE and OZ have non-stop SEA-ICN flights ....
44 Notdownnlocked : I had also heard that these changes concerning the 30% additions were projected to be completed and in place schedule wise in the March time period. A
45 RobertS975 : The original plans for Terminal A at Logan was to have full Customs/Immigration facilities and to have both AF and AZ flights arriving and leaving fr
46 LH423 : Again people, where did I say that I thought this would happen? You're right. For now connections via other hubs are fine. I do, however, feel that a
47 United Airline : Wonder when will we see DL back in Hong Kong again.... They used to fly HKG-LAX. If they ever return I suppose they will do HKG-ATL
48 RCS763AV : Yes! Forgot....sorry i sometimes say dumb things. But if you change the BOS code to YYZ,it works! Another option could be returning to Egypt, Israel
49 SafetyDude : In regards to BOS, would it possible (not to be confused with convenient) to taxi into E or wherever there is FIS, deplane the pax and crew and off-lo
50 2travel2know : Out of BOS the only DL international flight we may see is AUA, because AUA does have a FIS and arriving passengers could disembark directly in DL term
51 DAL767400ER : It would certainly be possible, but it would mean disembarking pax from, say CDG, have to make the long walk over from E to A, instead of just from g
52 Airbazar : You should inform yourself a little more before making statements like these. We could only wish that all state agancies were self financed and used
53 RCS763AV : SJO is very small with O/D pax, very doubtful it would work. Small markets but a flight from ATL could work. Plus they already codeshare with AV in C
54 EddieDude : As Rojo mentioned, JFK-MEX is a current DL route, operated once daily with a 752. In connection with that route, I have a thought. AM flies MEX-JFK t
55 BigGSFO : I can't see SLC receiving any major international service outside of Canada and Mexico. Look to DEN as a guage - if it isn't bveing served from DEN, t
56 MAH4546 : USAirways also flies BOS-CUN, so Delta can't enter the market. AeroMexico has a charter contract to provide Boston-Cancun charter flights on Saturday
57 VORFMD : What´s about VIE. VIE spokesman said they are in negotiations with Airlines for a ATL-VIE Service. Only DL comes to my mind then as OS has not enough
58 RobertS975 : That used to happen with the 2 AF flights as well as the old Sabena and Swissair codeshares. And Virgin used to tow over to B for departure. But now
59 EddieDude : Thanks Mark for the updates. Perhaps AM's charter contract will give it a chance to assess the possibility of competing with AA and US as a reguarly s
60 2travel2know : UA isn't flying DEN-SJO once per week? Maybe if Frontier would fly DEN-MBJ, DL may consider MBJ out of SLC too.
61 Notdownnlocked : As for DL flying to VIE I think it would have to be done from JFK and then only in the summer. Possibly 3-4 times weekly from ATL also seasonally coul
62 Positiverate : You would be surprised who I know over there. I'm just surprised they let you keep this thread going. When I posted the Saturday before the ASA sale
63 MAH4546 : No, they are not.
64 LawnDart : DL serves BDA out of BOS - have for years. You mean to say that if DL received ETOPs qualifications for their P&W2037 powered 757s, and suffered enou
65 Positiverate : I'm with you, I think it only effects the fleet flying those engines...
66 Post contains images MGA : Anybody have Links, any announcement, ANYTHING!!! ??? I know I seem desperate, but we´ve had the SAME airlines for a loooooong time now... MGA
67 Post contains images DAL767400ER : There's no official press release yet. But be relaxed, you will get your ATL flight . Just sleep a few more nights, and then wake up to read the offi
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