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US Majors Fleet Choices  
User currently offlineTIMC From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 133 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3093 times:

Why do none of the US majors fly 747's these days?

Had a quick look in the photo database, and of AA, DL, CO, none of them have any recent shots of a 747!

Surely there must be some routes with high enough yield that they can justify it?

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineChrisA330 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 632 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3082 times:

Quoting TIMC (Thread starter):
Why do none of the US majors fly 747's these days?

Last I checked UA and NW are still US Majors.


User currently offlineJamesbuk From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 3968 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3070 times:

dont united airlines count as an airline. i think the reason is as there are new aircraft with longer range like the 777-200LR and the 787 also the a380 coming along so i dont think theres any room in the market for them now except maybe in the cargo market


You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
User currently offlineMainliner From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2996 times:

United still operates the -400


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sam Chui




Northwest still operates the -400


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jing-Kai Chiou



...and the -200


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Miguel Snoep




Every flight counts.
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6477 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2926 times:

Quoting TIMC (Thread starter):
Why do none of the US majors fly 747's these days?

For the same reason that none have ordered the A380. It is too big for their needs. This also applies to BA and JL. By the way, when did NW and UA drop out of the major category?


User currently offlinePhilly Phlyer From United States of America, joined May 1999, 317 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2927 times:

The only US majors that use the 747 (excluding freight operations) are those carriers with large and long-standing Pacific operations (United and Northwest). The basic reason for this is that, for the US carriers in the US domestic, Latin American, and Atlantic markets, the consumers prefer frequency and convenience over larger aircraft. As a result, a carrier flying from Philadelphia to Los Angeles, would prefer to offer 5 flight times using A319s and A321s over offering 2 flights a day using a much larger aircraft.

Advances in aircraft and range have made this possible now that smaller jets have the range that only their big brothers had just 20 years ago. This also is why many Midwest hubs (Memphis, St. Louis, Kansas City, etc) aren't as important as they used to be. They just aren't needed due to advances in aircraft range.

In the same manner as domestic flights, the Atlantic traffic is dominated by 767s and 330s because that allows for more frequency and it allows for non-stops from smaller cities. You don't have to force all trans-Atlantic flights through Boston and New York due to the smaller twins having the range to bypass these historic hubs. Logan and JFK aren't as important as international jumping points and, as a result, are not as congested. The smaller jets actually can help reduce congestion since people are not forced to fly to airports they don't want to fly to in order to connect to flights. Also, the twins are cheaper to operate and maintain than three engine (MD-11s) and four engine (747 and 340) aircraft.

Continuing the trend, 777s and, eventually, 787s and 350s will replace most 747s on the ultra-long flights. People prefer the flexibility of additional flights and the airlines prefer to not put too much metal in the sky. Nobody lost money putting too little capacity in the air. Money is lost when you put too much capacity in the air.

Sorry for the long post.


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2926 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2916 times:

UA does still operate the 747...with the exception of this one:



oops tried to add the photo of the infamous UA 744 on it's a** at SFO.  Smile Guess I didn't do it right.

[Edited 2005-08-28 18:06:38]

User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2739 times:

American, Continental & Delta have sworn-off on 4-engined aircraft for good. Too big of an aircraft to justify it's costs on fuel & maintenance. The biggest aircraft we may see with AA, CO & DL would be the 773. And even then, that will not happen in the foreseeable future, due to the industry's turmoils. Regards.


"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
User currently offlineHunUtazo From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 235 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2637 times:

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 7):
The biggest aircraft we may see with AA, CO & DL would be the 773. And even then, that will not happen in the foreseeable future

AA & CO will, relatively soon. duck 



dude
User currently offlineAbirdA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 292 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2630 times:

Quoting HunUtazo (Reply 8):
AA & CO will, relatively soon.

AA has stated their lack of interest in the 773's capacity for some time now. Where does your information come from? I don't think we'll be seeing any 773s at AA anytime soon. CO is somewhat suspect in that regard as well.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2612 times:

Quoting AbirdA (Reply 9):
Quoting HunUtazo (Reply 8):
AA & CO will, relatively soon.

AA has stated their lack of interest in the 773's capacity for some time now. Where does your information come from? I don't think we'll be seeing any 773s at AA anytime soon. CO is somewhat suspect in that regard as well.

I agree. AA does not need or want anything bigger than their B-777-200ERs. CO and DL may eventually buy either the B-777-300ER or the B-777-200LR, but it will not be for a long time, if at all. DL will wait until their financial situation is settled before ordering anything.

With the debut of the B-787-800 in a few years, I see DL, CO, and AA all ordering this airplane as their long haul airliner.

But, you never know. AA might just order the B-747-ADV for their DFW-Japan flights, if cargo continues to pick up. They currently do very well with freight on the B-777-200ERs from DFW-Japan. But, there is not much additional capacity.


User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5242 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2481 times:

From what I understand, AA is not interested in the 777-300ER, since it isn't offered with the RR Trent engine.

AA also has no interest in a plane with 4 engines, whether its the 747, the A340, or the A380. It simply doesn't need a plane that big with that much additional maintenance needs.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2461 times:

Quoting HunUtazo (Reply 8):
AA & CO will, relatively soon.  

No reason to believe that, from either carrier. CO especially has an easy upgrade path to the 773ER.

N


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6923 posts, RR: 63
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2359 times:

Quoting TIMC (Thread starter):
AA, DL, CO, none of them have any recent shots of a 747!

If your memory goes back far enough, you'll recall that none of these airlines was ever a major operator of 747s. None has flown the 747 for many years and it seems safe to say that none ever will again.

Only Pan AM, TWA, United and Northwest (of the American majors) are, or have been, big 747 operators. Indeed, it's an interesting phonomenon that the 747's success (unlike that of every other Boeing jet) has been achieved without selling large numbers 'at home'. You'll find the biggest 727, 737, 757, 767 operators in the USA but the great majority of 747s are registered in other countries and its 'foreign' airlines who have the biggest 747 fleets. Something similar has so far happened with the 777.

By the way, are Boeing still the world's biggest exporter in terms of $ sales?

And that would be post #1,000...


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2151 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
With the debut of the B-787-800 in a few years, I see DL, CO, and AA all ordering this airplane as their long haul airliner.

CO already has 10 Firm orders and 5 options.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2041 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
With the debut of the B-787-800 in a few years, I see DL, CO, and AA all ordering this airplane as their long haul airliner.

CO already has 10 Firm orders and 5 options.

And NWA will be the first North American airline to begin using the 787 in revenue service with their recent order for 18 firm and 50 options.  Smile


User currently offlineMX757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 628 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1899 times:

I work for CO and I've checked the long term order sheet for the next 5 years and we have 2 777-200ER's on order. Numerous 737NG's and of course 787's.
That's not including options. Management has not expressed any interest in the 777-300ER. But never say never. We don't have capacity requirements that require such a large airframe right now.



Is it broke...? Yeah I'll fix it.
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1803 times:

Didnt Delta technically not fly the 747, rather it was flown by Pan Am?


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
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