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Top Destinations From AA  
User currently offlineA300AA From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 394 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10237 times:

Here are the top 5 destinations out of MIA in terms of profitability.

EZE
PAP
PLS
POS
BOG

and the most profitable sistemwide
MIA EZE
JFK GRU
MIA BOG
DFW GRU
This is according to a meeting that we had a month ago.

Any thoughts?

155 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1372 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10178 times:

Is this on a per flight basis, cargo, passenger, what?

No mention of LHR. I'm no airline financial genius, but I would think this station would be there somewhere.

I had heard that Central/South America was profitable, but no Europe??

Maybe Mark can provide some more insight.

Interesting...


User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1596 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10169 times:

that Latin America is a cash cow for AA!!!


Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5925 posts, RR: 40
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10165 times:

Quoting A300AA (Thread starter):
MIA BOG

sounds logical... Smile

would say AA is making on the route money due the pax, as the cargo rate is rock-bottom....

regards



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineA300AA From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10150 times:

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 1):
No mention of LHR. I'm no airline financial genius, but I would think this station would be there somewhere.

LHR was on the 8 th place.

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 1):
Is this on a per flight basis, cargo, passenger, what?

I think its in general, the whole route.


User currently offlineFlewGSW From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10126 times:

Most seats in one market:
DFW-LAX

Most flights in one market:
LAX-SAN

Shortest flight in distance:
ORD-MKE

Longest flight in distance:
JFK-NRT


User currently offline738_Driver From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10005 times:

And who was the meeting with and what did it cover?

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9963 times:

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 1):
Is this on a per flight basis, cargo, passenger, what?

I believe this is on a per-flight basis. For example, JFK-GRU brings in more money per-flight than MIA-GRU, but MIA-GRU, with three daily flights, brings in a lot more profit overall. I do know that AA 943/908 (MIA-EZE-MIA) is the single most profitable flight in AA's entire system, and, outside of a short time during the Argentine economy collapse, that has been the case for a long time.



a.
User currently offlineScott4AA From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9938 times:

Interesting. Wasn't there talk of downgrading DFW-GRU back to 7x weekly?


American Airlines - We Know Why You Fly
User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4009 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9883 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

What about the best performing domestic and European trips?

User currently onlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11436 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9814 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

An AA executive in Rio annouced that the 91% loads on GIG-MIA puts the route as one of the best in South America. Whats the correct position for this route, do you have info on this A300AA ?

Quoting Scott4AA (Reply 8):
Interesting. Wasn't there talk of downgrading DFW-GRU back to 7x weekly?

Yes, but with this issue i probably imagine that GIG-MIA on Rio high season is really a money machine (but GIG-MIA do not appears in the list!). Also, AA will offer the 5 frequencies from GRU-DFW on GIG-MIA only during around 3 months. After that probably they will come back to GRU-DFW.

Rgds,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9754 times:

Quoting Scott4AA (Reply 8):
Interesting. Wasn't there talk of downgrading DFW-GRU back to 7x weekly?

It will, to increase MIA-GIG back to 12x weekly in December for the winter. The second flight has had a huge negative effect on the flight's passenger yields, but the additional cargo revenue has kept things on the bright side.



a.
User currently offlineStock1985 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 9619 times:

I was just looking at AA Flights between MIA-EZE-MIA (900 & 943, 908 & 909) and the loads overall do not look that impressive when looking into the near future. While I realize this is not high season, I looked at all cabins and First and Business cabins were not even close to full. How could these flights be so profitable? Are there corporations who heavily subsidize these flights? I know that there is a huge VFR market, and many wealthy Argentines vacation in the Miami area, but what really makes this more profitable than a Heathrow flight or a flight to Narita. I am just really surprised to see the flights not going out as full as I would expect.

Also, I was looking into the future for a flight between MIA-EZE-MIA throughout the fall, up until Christmas...average fare was around $750, that does not spell high yeilding. Business class averages just around $4500, less than an LHR return flight. What really makes this flight the most profitable??? Obvious reasons: a very wealthy VFR link, cargo, business links, what else...is it just the sheer amount of the above that makes it really shine?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9605 times:

Quoting Stock1985 (Reply 12):
I was just looking at AA Flights between MIA-EZE-MIA (900 & 943, 908 & 909) and the loads overall do not look that impressive when looking into the near future. While I realize this is not high season, I looked at all cabins and First and Business cabins were not even close to full. How could these flights be so profitable? Are there corporations who heavily subsidize these flights? I know that there is a huge VFR market, and many wealthy Argentines vacation in the Miami area, but what really makes this more profitable than a Heathrow flight or a flight to Narita. I am just really surprised to see the flights not going out as full as I would expect.

Also, I was looking into the future for a flight between MIA-EZE-MIA throughout the fall, up until Christmas...average fare was around $750, that does not spell high yeilding. Business class averages just around $4500, less than an LHR return flight. What really makes this flight the most profitable??? Obvious reasons: a very wealthy VFR link, cargo, business links, what else...is it just the sheer amount of the above that makes it really shine?

Many factors make the flight profitable. Going to aa.com and checking out fares gives no indication as to a route's profit margins. And, as you said, it is the slow season. Between the end of August and early October, traffic between Miami and Latin America literally nosedives, and AA and others reduce capacity for the eight week period (which also allows planes to into maintence). Reasons that make AA 943/909 the single most profitable flight in AA's network:

1) High fares. I know you might be finding good $750 fares, but that is far from the average. I purchased a discount Y ticket on this flight last winter, and it cost me $1,100, despite flying the redeye on Christmas Eve.
2) Lots of business travel means lots of last minute travelers.
3) People pay full-fare C and F on this flight; much more so than on AA's JFK-LHR flight. Getting an upgrade on this flight is a difficult task most of the year.
4) Limited compietition. A total of seven airlines fly NYC-LON. Only two, AR and AA, fly MIA-EZE (this will become three this winter with LANArgentina's new daily MIA-EZE flight).
5) AA does not offer a comparable business class product on NYC-LHR versus the compietition. Virgin Atlantic and British Airways' offer an substationally better business class product; and BA's First product is also arguably better. As well, Kuwait Airlines and Air India keep the Y fares low. American Airlines offers the best premium product on MIA-EZE, no questions asked. AA loses a lot of higher fare pax in the London market to BA/VS.
6) Cargo revenue.



a.
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25165 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9589 times:

I have seen a profitability report for AA's entire international network for 2004.

In terms of operating margin here were the top routes per region.

South America
MIA-EZE
JFK-GRU
DFW-GRU
MIA-CCS
MIA-GYE

Asia
DFW-NRT

Atlantic
ORD-MAN
MIA-LHR
DFW-FRA
LAX-LHR
DFW-ZRH

Before everyone jumps on some of the routes and ask "what about xxx-xxx", the stats are based on the routes overall profitability margin.

For instance a route like ORD-MAN while not being a significant business market operates with overall consistent high load factors and strong cargo loads, thus it has managed to produce a strong positve operating margin.

On the other hand a route like JFK-LHR while significantly bigger and certainly much more a business oriented does not necessarily translate into as high of a profitability margin as the airline experiences lower load factors, and also plenty of low yield economy seats on their multiple daily flights.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9518 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
I believe this is on a per-flight basis. For example, JFK-GRU brings in more money per-flight than MIA-GRU, but MIA-GRU, with three daily flights, brings in a lot more profit overall

Correct.

I was aware that GRU was AA's most profitable destinations sistemwyde out of DFW and JFK.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
but with this issue i probably imagine that GIG-MIA on Rio high season is really a money machine (but GIG-MIA do not appears in the list!).

GIG-MIA is not in the list simply because it is a money machine in the high season only, traffic and average fares reduces substantially in the low season.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Limited compietition. A total of seven airlines fly NYC-LON. Only two, AR and AA, fly MIA-EZE (this will become three this winter with LANArgentina's new daily MIA-EZE flight).

Indeed, I'm sure MIA-GRU brings in a lot more money, but with TAM and RG in the market, and more than 40 weekly flights, AA profit margins are affected.

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 2):
that Latin America is a cash cow for AA!!!

No doubt.

Rgs,


User currently offlineGLAGAZ From UK - Scotland, joined Feb 2004, 1983 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7915 times:

Out of personal interest, does anyone know how profitable the seasonal ORD-GLA flight is for AA?

Gaz



Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
User currently offlineFLY2LIM From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1184 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7420 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 14):
I have seen a profitability report for AA's entire international network for 2004.

In terms of operating margin here were the top routes per region.

South America
MIA-EZE
JFK-GRU
DFW-GRU
MIA-CCS
MIA-GYE

Out of pure curiosity, how profitable are the LIM routes for AA?

FLY2LIM



Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
User currently offlineBilly From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2000, 895 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6672 times:

Glagaz, GLA just broke even last year.

Fly2LIM, the MIA service makes money in the peak, but loses a ton of cash off-peak. The DFW also loses money heavily in the off-peak, wiping out the peak period profits. AA is not happy.


User currently offlineGLAGAZ From UK - Scotland, joined Feb 2004, 1983 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (9 years 23 hours ago) and read 6520 times:

Quoting Billy (Reply 18):
Glagaz, GLA just broke even last year.

Whats the main problem with the route then? Loads are always healthy so I presume the yields are low?

Gaz



Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
User currently offlineRICARIZA From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 hours ago) and read 6266 times:

There is an article in today's financial paper in Colombia about this: (In Spanish)
http://www.portafolio.com.co/port_se...B-NOTA_INTERIOR_PORTA-2511234.html

(A quick translation, sorry for the mistakes)
American Airlines grew in the market of Colombia during first semester

For the high season an increase in the Bogota-Miami flights to three daily is predicted. The extension in the demand from trips to the United States has generated a true commotion between the companies that serve in this route.

American Airlines, that this year completes 15 years of operations in Colombia, has designed new strategies to take care of this flow of travelers. The company has transported in the 2005 more than 250,000 passengers in its route to Miami and more than 4.5 million load pounds towards E.U. and the world, from Bogota, medellin and Cali. In the last year of operations, a growth of 3.8 percent in Colombia. In front of other operators who fly from Bogota to the United States, American Airlines has a participation in the market of the 33 percent; from Cali a 41 percent and Medellin with a 45 percent. In the last 15 years the company has strengthened his presence in Colombia, for that reason he has increased his routes and also he has initiated the promotion of the coffee zone, in the United States.


PAX between Jan-July 2005.


The company counts on two daily flights to Miami from Bogota, which are increased to three during the high season; a daily flight from medellin to Miami and Cali-Miami. Of another side, Marta Patntin, of American explained that the idea of the company is to continue growing in Latin America, region that represents a great percentage of its income, over Europe, specially in the places in where it is operating. In Colombia it has 200 direct employees, of which 120 correspond to flight attendants. In the world the number of civil employees approaches the 90,000 and although it has reduced the number of airplanes, its current fleet is near the 1.000 planes.



I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2159 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 hours ago) and read 6255 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
An AA executive in Rio annouced that the 91% loads on GIG-MIA puts the route as one of the best in South America

Load factor is nice, but yields make the route. Yields to Rio are notoriously bad.


User currently offlineBilly From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2000, 895 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 hours ago) and read 6227 times:

GLAGAZ,

With a seasonal service it is tough appealing to the corporate market. USAirways is experiencing a similar issue on PHL. If they could get year-round then the route would work. I understand that AA might be looking at yearround 757 instead of seasonal 767.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 hours ago) and read 6216 times:

Quoting AF022 (Reply 21):
Load factor is nice, but yields make the route. Yields to Rio are notoriously bad.

Not in the high season. I dispute the fact that yields to Rio are so bad, otherwise AA would not relocate 5 frequencies out of GRU to GIG.

Rgs,


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 hours ago) and read 6214 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 14):
have seen a profitability report for AA's entire international network for 2004.

In terms of operating margin here were the top routes:

South America
MIA-EZE
JFK-GRU
DFW-GRU
MIA-CCS

I thought MIA-BOG would be in the list since it is one of AA's most profitable routes out of MIA.


25 LipeGIG : Agree. And Rio also demand more service to MIA and also JFK. Yields to Rio proved not to be bad as people think in the past: AF, IB, TP, AA, RG all w
26 Commavia : I think it's quite telling, though -- three of those five airlines are European, and one is from Brazil! I could be wrong, but it is at least my perc
27 FLY2LIM : Thanks, that makes sense. In reading an article about Peruvian aviation that was included in another a.net thread, it stated that airport fees for LI
28 MAH4546 : That is definitley not the case. Many major European carriers have long since ended GIG service - including Swiss, Lufhansa, KLM, and Alitalia. TAP,
29 SOUTHAMERICA : Don't forget IB. S.
30 MAH4546 : Yes, of course. Thanks.
31 LipeGIG : Mike, please include IBERIA on your list. They serve both GRU and GIG non stop. Your comments are quite perfect. But Rio is not only a destination cit
32 MAH4546 : I said was a playground for the rich, not is. Rio de Janeiro's former glory is now long gone, with most wealthy European chosing to vacation in the m
33 Billy : Fly2LIM, The decision to switch to the A300 on MIA is based upon cargo potential. The Peruvian asparagus market needs all the cargo capacity it can ge
34 FLY2LIM : That is what my "sources" tell me. They are really cutting costs and may shut down the f/a station some day. FLY2LIM
35 Hardiwv : Walk around Leblon-Ipanema and you wont get surprised to pass by Naomi Campbell, Calvin Klein or Gisele Bunchen...Rio still has its glory, but it att
36 Hardiwv : Correct. Currently about 60% of Rio's hotel occupation is business-related. Rio's economy has been one of the best-performing in Brazil for the last
37 MAH4546 : I'm not denying Rio de Janeiro still has it's charm. I'm not saying it's not a beautiful city or that you won't find some celeberities. I was there t
38 Air Palingus : Woww!! I had never imagined that EZE-MIA would be AA's most profitable route en Latin America and the world!! Indeed, I have spent my summer vacations
39 Dellatorre : Well history is about to change, GIG is growing fast and will surprise many who keep saying it is a poor yield destination. AA is increasing flight t
40 Laxintl : Amazing how lately any discussion regarding Latin America turns into one regarding Rio de Janeiro. I guess no one cares to discuss those destinations
41 Post contains images Hardiwv : I can testify to this fact. No doubt Rio still enjoys its glory, and they are far from gone. It is part of the discussion. What we are predicting is
42 LipeGIG : Rio is also part of Latin America and the reason for the discussions is that many people keeps thinking that Sao Paulo is the only good market in Bra
43 SOUTHAMERICA : Very true, I was talking the same thing with a couple of users recently. Not that it's bad, but it's getting repetitive. The arguments are always the
44 Post contains images FLY2LIM : Felipe: Next trip, fly up to Northern California, starting in San Francisco and work your way down to Carmel, Monterey, and Santa Cruz. You may think
45 Neo : And what we are arguing is that this is about to change. GIG will grow a lot and will become much closer in numbers to GRU. OF COURSE GRU will still
46 SOUTHAMERICA : It's not hard to understand, it's hard to believe. There's nothing to understand, you guys are simply predicting, but until now not much has happened
47 LipeGIG : Hi SouthAmerica, I respect all opinions here and even predictions, comments and all other ways of communication. Please do not understand that i belie
48 LipeGIG : Fly2LIM, i believe you're 100% right as we were highly recommended to visit the cities along San Francisco-LA coast. As i probably need to come back
49 Post contains images Hardiwv : I disagree. Felipe's post have been very instructive. I dont find anything repetitive. And what we are stating is that GIG is growing and could (agai
50 AlitaliaMD11 : I would think that San Juan, Puerto Rico would be a big route out of MIA? There is know Jet Blue or Song to compete with like at JFK.
51 SOUTHAMERICA : Felipe, I understand your points and your position. Again, I have absolutely nothing against Rio de Janeiro because I have never been there, but, spea
52 Commavia : Yes, they did. Several winters ago, AA flew MIA-GIG nonstop, daily with a 777, but the flight did not perform as well as 12x weekly 763s because the
53 Dellatorre : As Hardi said there are facts that base what we are saying here about GIG: This is a reality not just predictions.. GRU/CGH do not have space for gro
54 MAH4546 : The short-lived 777 service on MIA-GIG was winter season after 9.11. To make up for the fact that the flight was reduced to 1x daily, they upped capa
55 PPVRA : So you guys rather instead talk about GRU all the time? GIG's got an interesting dynamic going on and it's interesting to see what's going to happen t
56 LipeGIG : Lets talk about Sao Paulo and its restrictions (one of the Top AA destinations): Okay, so lets try to understand why yesterday (thr sept 01) just beca
57 SOUTHAMERICA : Those are the type of cheap arguments that I simply refuse to buy. With domestic airlines I agree... ...But, you are implying that foreign airlines w
58 FLY2LIM : Felipe: I live in Santa Cruz, which is a beautiful little town on the Monterey Bay. It reminds me a little of Lima, same coast and same type of ocean
59 Hardiwv : Anyone has specific information about this KL flight? SOUTH, calm down! GIG is growing in a sustainable way. Airlines are increasing their operations
60 Post contains images LipeGIG : Hey FLY2LIM, nice history, i heard some of them from my new Californinan and New Yorker friends (but also i have to agree that brazilian womans are a
61 LipeGIG : Hardi, im just in my way back to Brazil (in fact at MIA Intl on Concourse E waiting for my flight to Rio) and i have send a couple e-mails to some fr
62 MAH4546 : That is not what a low-yield market is. In fact, in many cases, airline upgrade equipment in low yield markets, like AF going a high-density 744 in R
63 SOUTHAMERICA : Huh? Be it Brazil, Cosa Rica or Mongolia, I still find very hard to believe that because the main aiport is at full-capacity then all airlines will f
64 LipeGIG : Or an increase on revenues as i dont believe a 10% increase in seats (while reducing Biz seats) could give you the idea of low yield. Its a global st
65 MAH4546 : Yes, it does. By adding 10% capacity, and reducing the number of premium cabins, like Air France did, you can increase revenue on routes with poor pe
66 BSBIsland : I´ve heard hundreds of times people in this forum saying that Rio is a mainly touristic destination, low-yield, bla bla bla. That is also very repeti
67 PPVRA : Full capacity and expensive. Look at Delta, 2 daily GRU while 50% of their pax connect onwards. GIG gets 25%, which is half load of an aircraft, and
68 Gokmengs : Does anyone have a report similar to this one on DL?
69 SOUTHAMERICA : You definitely have a point there in your above post. DL must be aware that by introducing GIG they'll be walking in relatively firm terrain, and tha
70 N77014 : Because AA's MIA, and to an extent JFK operations, are well situted for all aspects of the market. MIA in particular enjoys onward feed.
71 Post contains links and images Hardiwv : Very correct this statement. Couldn't have said it better! [I will be in BSB 18-22 September, maybe we could meet?] Indeed, this is an important aspe
72 Hardiwv : ...in addition to what I just stated above, GIG is one of the few "lucky" destinations worldwide to get AF's NEV (premium, top business class product
73 Neo : Agree with you 100% about this!!! This is one of cheapest, non-sense, comparisons that I ever seen, and that very well demonstrates your lack of know
74 Post contains images BSBIsland : Sure! Just contact me.
75 SOUTHAMERICA : Please people, get real, we're not discussing about Mars or Jupiter here, it's Brazil, of course the largest and most populated country in Latin Amer
76 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Living in the Bay Area, I 2nd that notion...........plus SFO is great for spotting too.... I would recommend you coming and take an opportunity to sp
77 Post contains links Hardiwv : Correct. Apparently you are. I never said that. Could you please show me the sentence. I said (am I repetitive?) that AF makes MORE profit in GIG and
78 MAH4546 : The NEV concept is great. It is also a high-density 747-400 configuration that removes first class in favour of a better business product, which is m
79 Post contains images Hardiwv : Tks for confirming that GIG performs better than GRU. Average Y fare on AF-GIG are higher than on AF-GRU. Again, loads (Y and C) to GIG are also high
80 BSBIsland : That´s the point, Rio is not just a "secondary city". São Paulo is indeed the main city in Brazil, but Rio has still a 11 million inhabitants metro
81 SOUTHAMERICA : AF seems to think otherwise according to the equipment they use. The NEV argument is getting as old and boaring as any of the other stories you guys
82 SOUTHAMERICA : I'm not comparing Rio with Medellin and Maracaibo. I was comparing the proportions between Bogota-Medellin, Caracas-Maracaibo with that of Sao Paulo-
83 Avianca : AF is doing very good on the german-gig market for example, many many passengers tooks the service ... and they are looking to get more of the market
84 BSBIsland : Difficult to understand or to accept? Rio is also oil and fashion industry by the way, but way more than just this.... still very nonsense comparison
85 BSBIsland : Too simplistic.... Proportions??????That shows even more your lack of knowledge about this....
86 BigGSFO : Back on topic, does anybody think the new service to PVG or DEL will make this list?
87 SOUTHAMERICA : Never heard of them? If comparing 18million/10million with 7million/3million [in rough numbers] doesn't work for you, then I'm seriously thinking tha
88 Hardiwv : Correct Correct Correct, but Southamerica does not undertands this simple fact. Good one... Indeed, GIG gets the better equipment, the better lounge,
89 Hardiwv : You certainly lack it. Rgs,
90 Post contains images BSBIsland : Well, dear friend, when you take into consideration aviation market, you don´t just take this simplistic comparison. You make reasonable proportions
91 Hardiwv : And Rio's GIG is the 6th biggest hub in Latin America...still, according to some it is "just" a small, irrelevant, low-yielding airport, relegated to
92 PPVRA : I thought this was about GIG expansion, not high/low yielding crap. As long as the destination is making $$$, who cares? You have to look at GRU also.
93 Laxintl : As I have mentioned before it is truly amazing how this entire topic has been basically hijacked and relates near solely about the importance of Rio n
94 BSBIsland : Well, speaking for myself, I wasn´t saying that Rio is more important or anything than São Paulo. Just about some myths about Rio de Janeiro that h
95 Neo : You better come up with something that makes more sense next time, otherwise we are going to start thinking you are stupid other than just stuburn. T
96 SOUTHAMERICA : Just as I imagined, making one comment different than the general flow means that I now have all this amusing mafia behind me, and still, I have yet t
97 MAH4546 : I never once said that. I never said it didn't, though. All I said was that by sending a high-density 747-400 to Rio, Air France is able to get bette
98 Post contains images LipeGIG : Thanks for your comment Jacobin777 SFO is a place which probably i will visit next year. But i will try to stay more 2 days at San Diego. That airpor
99 LipeGIG : Thanks very much! Probably because we have the day by day info as well as in many cases uses Rio airports. If you try to explain me why a saturday ni
100 Post contains links Hardiwv : Excellent summary, which I totally subscribe. Interesting, that most of these members are not from Rio, some from Sao Paulo, and indeed some even fro
101 Hardiwv : Interesting. Tks for the info, Avianca. Rgs,
102 SQ2 : is there any AA 777s going to asia?
103 Hardiwv : I am sure AA flies the B777 on DFW-NRT, as many pax connect from GRU to NRT in DFW. In Latin America, the only destinations which receive AA's B777 a
104 MAH4546 : All of AA's Asian routes, obviously, operate with 777s. JFK/LAX/ORD/SJC/DFW-NRT DFW-KIX ORD-NGO/PVG/DEL
105 SOUTHAMERICA : Once again, that doesn't necessarily have to do with yields. Nobody is criticizing GIG's ability to fill the plane, in fact, it wouldn't surprise me
106 A300AA : that's false. What makes Latin America so profitable is that their costs are much lower than the competition. Latin America F/A are paid much less th
107 PPVRA : Thanks Mark. SOUTHAMERICA, One more thing to chew on: GRU loses a lot of flights to CGH (#1 SAO airport in pax & movements). Rio has been reduced to
108 Hardiwv : Correct! Fill not only economy class but business class as well. Have you looked at AF B747 CDG-GIG for the coming Saturday? Full business class, spa
109 Neo : Would anyone have the list of Top Destinations for DL?? Rgs, Neo
110 LipeGIG : See reply 99, items 1 to 4, after try to use some academic concepts like demand and offer. I cannot drive airline operations, i only fly and its alwa
111 Commavia : Question: Does anyone have any more details on this news? Is Brazil truly ready to liberalize its U.S. aviation bilateral to allow access to the Braz
112 Post contains images BSBIsland : If new frequencies to other cities in Brazil were allowed, I think BSB could make much sense, specially for connecting passengers as it is the best co
113 MAH4546 : Brasilia is priority for American Airlines. AA is watching the US-Brazil air treaty negotiations very closely, and is prepared to launch service to B
114 Post contains images PPVRA : So did Varig btw: Cheers
115 BSBIsland : I had no idea RG had ever served MIA from BSB. MAO-MIA was operated for many years, but BSB is totally new for me. And those 73Gs were on a delivery
116 PPVRA : Okay, one of them does say it's a delivery flight. Missed that. But I do remember reading that RG offered flight to MIA from MAO, not sure about BSB-
117 MAH4546 : Varig never offered MIA-BSB service; only TransBrasil (non-stop) and TAM (via MAO) have. Varig did fly MIA-MAO until 2003. 2x a week - 763 one day and
118 LipeGIG : Agree 100% but remember that its US Embassy, UN, World Bank, IADB and some other agencies the only beneficiaries with US flights. I think Embassies u
119 MAH4546 : I don't imagine that Delta or Continental will be going to NE Brazil in the near term, outside of possibly Salvador. There isn't much room for one th
120 LipeGIG : Mark i agree with you that AA will be very agressive but i don't know DOT rules and i can't say that AA will win this fight for more frequencies (i k
121 MAH4546 : In US/Brazil bilatteral negotiations, the United States will settle for nothing short of Open Skies. They may make some sort of compromises (like Ope
122 Post contains images Hardiwv : That was a good one! Your posts are great, Felipe! Your "carioca" sense of humour made my day!! Correct. Agree. There many other international organi
123 Post contains images LipeGIG : Specially on Brazilian Independence Day Very good info, now i have to excuse and agree with you and BSBIsland. Rgds, Felipe
124 FLY2LIM : Again, that is what a crew member out of LIM told me. They have eliminated security personnel (that's a contracted company now), they have reduced f/
125 Incitatus : So Infraero is not content in leaving Sao Paulo without a proper international terminal? They also want to stick it to the passengers with a hefty ta
126 Commavia : One problem, though: what connections would CO and DL offer that passengers actually want or need? I don't think there is too much traffic going to n
127 PPVRA : Agree, there is very little market outside major U.S. cities and the NE of Brazil. DeltaVacations could do well in the NE, but we first need more fli
128 MAH4546 : Having Lima-based crew, as mentioned, actually saves money. The F/A's are paid less and work less.
129 LipeGIG : I don't agree. In fact the Infraero CEO and CFO are from São Paulo, both indicated by the Government (also from São Paulo). We will agree that it's
130 MAH4546 : Sadly, it isn't. Americans don't travel on vacation to Brazil often, and most of them that do happen to be from South Florida and NY/NJ. The initial
131 Commavia : No. As MAH said, the market from the U.S. to Brazil is probably (making an educated guess here, no hard statistics/facts) about 75% MIA, about 15-20%
132 Post contains links and images BSBIsland : Well, from stories I´ve heard, most Americans don´even t know where Brazil is, maybe a big jungle somewhere. Brazil NE as destination is quite new,
133 MAH4546 : No, it wouldn't. While AA's proposed service to Manaus and Brasilia would be daily, the rest would not be. Markets like FOR and REC would fluxuate be
134 BSBIsland : I don´t understand Manaus would get daily instead of REC or SSA. Manaus is much smaller and I don´t see a bigger potential there. If SSA or REC cou
135 MAH4546 : Many reasons: 1) Heavy business traffic between the US and Manaus 2) Heavy cargo demand between the US and Manaus (cargo revenue will be the profit d
136 RCS763AV : Every topic transforms into GIG is nice now huh...im with SOUTHAMERICA in this, just get over it. Being picky, it more like 8 million/3 million in the
137 Post contains images PPVRA : I can attest to that. I've met several people who have been to MAO but nowhere else in Brazil in ATL (except GRU for connections, LOL. And one Biolog
138 MAH4546 : Not surprising. And the popularity with Americans to Manaus keeps on growing rapidly. Americans love Manaus and the Amazon, but when it comes to goin
139 Post contains links BSBIsland : Just to clarify something, in the Top 10 most visited cities in Brazil, Salvador is in the 4th place. Manaus is not even among the 10. Considering th
140 MAH4546 : I see where you are coming from, but ut doesn't prove anything. Most Americans going to Brazil go to Rio and Sao Paulo, taking sidetrips to nearby ar
141 BSBIsland : Just as far as Salvador from Rio or Sao Paulo. BTW, not many people go to Porto Alegre, just a city, nothing special. It is a BIG joke comparing POA
142 LipeGIG : Mark i agree that Cargo and business traffic are strong to Manaus (due to the high concentration of multinational corporations), but mainly investors
143 MAH4546 : Strong US-Manaus tourism traffic is thanks to eco-tourism. Americans don't go to Manaus to see the actual city, they go for the Ecotourism. People who
144 Post contains images Hardiwv : Agree. Resort cities in NE Brazil have direct competition of the well-established resorts of the Caribbean (which are much closer to the US and dont
145 Post contains images Brasuca : Ops! We're now two from Brasília. Here I am. LOL!!! Saudade, Hardi!
146 BSBIsland : POA is close to Argentina and Uruguayans. The ones who go there are Argentinians or Uruguayans, not Americans.
147 BSBIsland : POA is close to Argentina and Uruguay. The ones who go there are Argentinians or Uruguayans, not Americans.
148 MAH4546 : Americans do indeed go to Porto Alegre, and I'd be willing to bet you'll find more Americans in Porto Alegre than anywhere on the Notheast Brazilian
149 LipeGIG : And i said: i believe ! I don't want to see data. Please, don`t think i`m a 10 year old boy because you don`t agree with me in something i can`t agre
150 MAH4546 : That was not directed at you. You never asked me for a source, BSBIsland did.
151 Post contains images BSBIsland : We are discussing about cities as touristic destinations... I have nothing against Porto Alegre, just some nonsense comparisons made here. I give up
152 Post contains images Hardiwv : Well...although I love POA, and even more FLN, Florianopolis and the Southern region, it is hard to believe that there are more American vacationers
153 LipeGIG : True and due to immigration traces, German, Swiss and Italy comes as big touristic origin for POA and the entire Rio Grande do Sul state. I agree wit
154 Hardiwv : ...Monsanto and GM... Ford was supposed to establish its plant in the region around POA, but if you can recall, they changed their plans and now have
155 Post contains links Hardiwv : And having a closer look at official statistics...we see that foreign tourists arriving in Brazil are selecting more NE Brazil instead of South Brazi
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