Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Future Of SAS Long-haul Division  
User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1914 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 11 months 1 day ago) and read 7461 times:

A Norwegian financial newspaper announces that SAS long-haul division (Scandinavian Airlines International) will have to spare 450 millions Swedish kroner (roughtly 50 millions USD or Euros) before any expansion plan may be considered.
Savings understood to come from a 20 to 30% increased productivity of crews, reduced ground handling costs and better refueling contracts.
It is also mentioned that the long-haul activity has never been profitable (about 25 millions USD or Euros in the red for the first half of 2005, for ex.), but is very important to the company as a whole.

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 1 day ago) and read 7447 times:

Hi!

SAS has a long tradition in their long-haul division. They used to fly mostly all over the world in the past. Of course things changed dramatically in these last few years but I still think SAS has a niche in their network. One thing I notice is the fact that beeing in the northern part of Europe sometimes can punish them for anyone that needs to fly anywhere in the world. Let's see, if someone from Portugal needs to fly to SEA, maybe the cheapest flight is with SK via Scandinavia ( maybe not too... ) but just because you need to fly almost 4 hours to get your main flight sometimes that doesn't give motivation for people to do it! I would mind, but I belong to a special breed that don't mind to fly at all!!! Reminds me that last April I had to fly from LIS to KIX and the cheapest way was with AY... yes it was and I wanted to book it but unfortunetely the segment Barcelona/Helsinki was full, otherwise I would go!!! But I know that a lot of people would never do that!
Anyway I like SAS, they have an excelent and new long-haul fleet and maybe one of these days I'll try them ( but before that I'll need to process that with my family, I know that they will come to me complainingwhy we needed to fly so much north to get to our final destination!!!
Regards


User currently offlinePanamandy From Austria, joined Mar 2005, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 23 hours ago) and read 7325 times:

hi, i highly doubt that sas long haul is operated at a loss.

their planes are almost full anytime!

and i loved to fly them to lax,gru,ewr,jfk,ord,bkk and sin one of the best in my opinion.

its a shame they cut so many routes!


User currently offlineUpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 23 hours ago) and read 7293 times:

Quoting CV990 (Reply 1):
from LIS to KIX and the cheapest way was with AY... yes it was and I wanted to book it but unfortunetely the segment Barcelona/Helsinki was full, otherwise I would go!!! But I know that a lot of people would never do that!

Never do what? To have a 9-hour Europe-Japan flight instead of the usual 11 or so hours...? Finland is much closer to Asia than any other Western European country, you know... A direct BCN-KIX flight would be only 29 km shorter than the route via HEL! Check the Great Circle Mapper if you don't believe me...



AY and ANA rock!
User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 22 hours ago) and read 7227 times:

Hi!

I'm just saying that with the experience I have here from portuguese citizens! They would just not do it!!!! I got that information from the portuguese travel agency that I booked by flight! Unfortunetely that segment BCN/HEL was not available otherwise I would do it!!!
Regards


User currently offlineUpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 22 hours ago) and read 7160 times:

Quoting CV990 (Reply 4):
They would just not do it!!!! I got that information from the portuguese travel agency that I booked by flight!

So you are seriously saying that the majority would MUCH rather fly 2+10 hours than 3+9 hours?

How do other members feel about this?



AY and ANA rock!
User currently offlinePanamandy From Austria, joined Mar 2005, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 22 hours ago) and read 7146 times:

dont care at all!

i flew vie/fra/sin, vie/cph/gru, vie/fra/dxb, vie/fra/bom, vie/fra/jnb

everything in the other direction first !

as soon as price, quality and safety is ok everything works !


User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 17 hours ago) and read 6899 times:

Hi UpperDeck79!

Lot's of people here have their mind mentalized to fly to major hubs like LHR, FRA or ORY. If you come to a point that a ticket price via HEL is € 650,00 plus taxes and via AMS or FRA is €700,00 plus taxes, they will prefer to get over a close airport! I can understand yr. point and I just didn't do it because unfortunetely no space to get to HEL, otherwise the other flights were plenty of seats, and when I tried to book the trip was in January 2005 and the flight from BCN to HEL was already full!!!! But I'm sure if I had that chance people would come to me and say - "Why are u going via HEL???? That's too far away!!!" Maybe there is still a tabu for portuguese to be in one side of Europe and need to get to the other side of Europe, the middle will be the wisest choise!!! Anyway I'm still chasing a new oportunity in the future!!!
regards


User currently offlineKEno From Malaysia, joined Feb 2004, 1842 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 12 hours ago) and read 6773 times:

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 5):
So you are seriously saying that the majority would MUCH rather fly 2+10 hours than 3+9 hours?

Nobody wants that extra hours but the problem is most people are still unaware that the shortest route (hopefully cheapest too) between Portugal and Japan is via Finland. Most people still think that the only way to travel to the other side of the world is via the larger European hubs.

Don't blame the general public for being unaware of this, Finnair should have done their marketing and promotion better.


User currently offlineBaw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2027 posts, RR: 27
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 6642 times:

If SAS is doing badly on intercontinental routes, then they had better look to other routes than Seattle-Copenhagen. This route has been consistently one of the best producing routes on SAS entire system. On average the route runs an annual load factor of 85%, nearly 100% in the summer months and they can charge a premium now because traveling via Copenhagen is much easier than transiting either Amsterdam or Heathrow. People who fly from Seattle tend to fly over the pole rather than go via the eastern US, since it saves 6 hours at least, and on balance, the service is better on BA and SK. Especially SK.

While SK definitely has a problem with its J class product (not up to "bed" standard), it goes out full almost all the time, since the timing of the flights now allow for more connections to/from central Europe. Since BA is the only bed product out of Seattle, SAS tends to be quite competitive against NW, although since NW has switched to the A330 on Amsterdam, that situation may change a little.

SAS does not do well in other markets, because of the fact that most of the traffic to/from the other US gateways is mostly traffic to/from Scandinavia. From Seattle, the traffic goes beyond Scandinavia into Europe and into the Middle East, which makes Seattle very different than other SK routes. What SK will have to figure out now is how can they market themselves so that they can garner a larger percentage of the beyond Scandinavia traffic. If they can figure that out, then they will do much better than they are on the North Atlantic.

One thing, DON'T TOUCH SEATTLE! Its doing just fine, thank you.

baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2213 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 6606 times:

The same article mentioned by the thread starter also said that if SAS can get the finances in order, then they might think about increasing their long haul flights afterwards.


Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offline747400F From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 6603 times:

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 9):
(not up to "bed" standard),

Will be soon! SAS are changing their J-class seats this coming winter


User currently offlineUpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 5 hours ago) and read 6570 times:

Quoting KEno (Reply 8):
Don't blame the general public for being unaware of this, Finnair should have done their marketing and promotion better.

1) I never blamed the general public. I was asking CV990 if HE really thinks that is the way things stand.

2) Finnair does not serve Portugal on scheduled flights, so there is little marketing to be done in Portugal. I believe the mentality in Spain (where AY flies both MAD and BCN) is different because of the marketing etc.



AY and ANA rock!
User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 5 hours ago) and read 6549 times:

Hi UpperDeck79!

Did you see my post when I told how people think? Well that's the way they think.... not me, but I'm just a minority in this matter and maybe because I understand this the same way has you.... but what can I do? I think mostly portuguese don't really feel connected with Scandinavia and Northern Europe has a hub!!!
I feel sad that AY left Portugal in the past, specially taking in mind that Portugal is a popular place for vacations and they used to regulary fly to LIS via MAD. But they still have charter flights to FAO with 757's.
Regards


User currently offlineFBU 4EVER! From Norway, joined Jan 2001, 998 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 5 hours ago) and read 6498 times:

There are plans to lease 2 A330-200's (new-build a/c) to expand the Intercont. routes.However,the Board of Directors will not grant the Intercont. Division permission to go ahead with the plans until SAS' financial situation has improved. The requirement to save a further 450-500 million Kroner concers all of SAS,not just Intercont.,and is part of the Turnaround-2005 plan which is not yet completed.

I will be transferring from my beloved MD-80 onto the A340 this coming winter,and when that happens I think we'll see a few new routes added to our network.Most likely Asian destinations out of STO.

And yes,SAS will add new sleeper seats in Business Class.Enjoy!



"Luck and superstition wins all the time"!
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2171 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 3 hours ago) and read 6397 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Breiz (Thread starter):
It is also mentioned that the long-haul activity has never been profitable

That was one of the arguments for closing the OSL-EWR twice so far this millennium. The flights went out with relatively high load factors but yields were too low to make a profit.

My auntie flew in EuroClass on that route many times, mostly on the 767, and told me that many seats had to be empty so that a few seats could be converted into sleeper seats/beds. The seats behind would thus be useless as there was no room left. No wonder it wasn't profitable...



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months ago) and read 5602 times:

I always thought that SAS has a geat potential to produce high load factors towards asia. Many European routes actually pass over Scandinavia or not too far to get to Asia. I think CPH or ARN could be some sort of hub for flights towards Asia


A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32602 posts, RR: 72
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months ago) and read 5559 times:

SAS officials have been in close talks with MIA about launching service to the airport. Still a ways off...November 2006 is the earliest the flights would launch, but I put my money on MIA being their next North American city. Before that, though, expect to see Stockholm get a flight to a current Asian destination, possibly Shanghai. The Swedish media has been reporting this.


a.
User currently offlineHanginOut From Austria, joined May 2005, 550 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5368 times:

Does anyone have a link showing what the new Business class seats will look like? Any further information would be appreciated.

Thanks

HanginOut



Dreaming of the day I can work for an airline
User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2213 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5348 times:

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 16):
I think CPH or ARN could be some sort of hub for flights towards Asia

If HEL can be one, then CPH and ARN should at least have the same potential, if not a bigger potential, since these cities are bigger also. One advantage that HEL has, though, is the airport terminal, which in my view is far better for connections than ARN or CPH.



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineBaw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2027 posts, RR: 27
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5054 times:

SAS with bed seats in J class will clean up in Seattle. I mean clean up big time. Can you imagine, a bed seat and SAS service? That is something people here will pay for without batting an eye.

Good move SAS. Of course, this will really damage NW more than BA, since BA's traffic is more O&D SEA-LON. However, if there is a choice of carriers to central Europe, who will you take, NW to AMS on the 330, or SK to CPH on the 340?

From Seattle, you will probably end up on Northwest, because the SAS flight will be so booked up there will not be another choice  Smile

I'll be interested to see which seat product they choose for their J class product. There are so many choices out there...

baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlineScandinavian From Sweden, joined Sep 2000, 267 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4933 times:

Here is a link showing the new business class seat:

http://wpy.observer.se/wpyfs/00/00/0...%20utan%20linjer%20utan%20text.JPG

The new pitch is 61,5 inches compared to today's 50.



"He was a wise man who invented beer"-Platon
User currently offlineYago From Iceland, joined May 2002, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4867 times:

My best long haul flight was with SAS to New Delhi... wonderful experience.

I would love to see the 777 and the 787 in SAS colours  Smile


User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4844 times:

I rather think SAS has enough aircarft types in its fleet! It dosent need to add any new types, although the fleet managers are probably at this moment, in their wisdom, planning to order A380s, 777300s and a couple of 787-3s while leasing in a couple of 757s. Big grin

User currently offlineMaersk737 From Denmark, joined Feb 2004, 678 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4834 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 23):
although the fleet managers are probably at this moment, in their wisdom, planning to order A380s, 777300s and a couple of 787-3s while leasing in a couple of 757s.

I don't think so, but you will never know what these fleet planners are planning Big grin

Cheers

Peter



I'm not proud to be a Viking, just thankfull
25 Orion737 : Especially the loonies that work in SAS fleet planning!
26 Post contains images HanginOut : Thanks for the link Scandinavian Although the seat looks really nice (pod style for privacy), I'm not a fan of the angled lie flat seats. Hopefully,
27 CV990 : Hi! I just arrived a few hours ago from OSL and I had the chance to read SAS magazine and also see their network. Well I must say I was a bit surprise
28 Post contains links and images Scandinavian : Hi CV990! Indeed, SAS did fly to South America. They flow to both Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro. I think that the flights to South America finished in
29 Orion737 : seeing that picture of SAS 747 reminds me of prior mistakes with fleet planning. The 747 was far too big for SKs needs and was soon disposed of. They
30 RedChili : The stopped flying to Israel when the Palestinian terror exploded in 2000. I believe they still had LAX flights until approximately the middle of the
31 Baw716 : Most of the 747s SK had were combis. They carried only about 180-200 pax and two zones of cargo. Of course, this was in the 70s and 80s when the drago
32 Post contains images Scandinavian : I guess that you don´t like those who works in SAS fleet planning! I flow with SAS on this route last October, and indeed the service and the flight
33 CV990 : Hi! Gee..... SAS had a lot of long-haul flights back to the 80's!!!! Any particular reason why they stopped specially the South America ones, LAX and
34 Matt27 : Both. The routes to South America and LAX weren't profitable. I don't know about JNB, did SAS actually go there? //Mattias
35 RedChili : They did fly there a millenium ago, but I believe it was cancelled for political reasons. This was during the apartheid era.
36 OYRJA : SAS also flew CPH-LOS for a couple of years back in the 80's.
37 LCH : Baw716: The 747 that was lost was leased to Avianca of Colombia, but it chrashed in Spain. As for the rumours about MIA, I don't know what to think. I
38 CV990 : Hi! OSL is one of those examples that I still need to figure out in the SAS strategy. It seems that OSL is well served in most of European capitals bu
39 747400F : Yes once SAS had a daily plane to ATH which on alternate dates continued on to DAM, AMM or BEY Also they have served JED and RUH, both nonstop and vi
40 RedChili : If we go WAY back in time, then SK served all kinds of international destinations. When Braathen's (now a part of SAS) was established, their first ro
41 LipeGIG : Nowadays I think that South America is not an important turistic destination (while it could be) but keeps a strong Nordic base of investments. SAS k
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Future Of JAT Long Haul? posted Mon Oct 9 2000 18:38:30 by JAT
New SAS Long-haul Destinations In Future? posted Thu Sep 29 2005 01:13:15 by Avianca
SAS Long Haul Expansion posted Sun Nov 5 2006 10:58:04 by Kevin777
SAS Long-haul Fleet Utilization posted Sat Feb 11 2006 00:15:22 by Scalebuilder
The Future Of SAS? posted Sat Nov 19 2005 02:29:56 by Copenhagenboy
Former SAS Long-Haul Flights (Destinations)? posted Fri Sep 16 2005 00:30:59 by Avianca
The Dire Straits Of KLM Long Haul Economy... posted Sat Jul 30 2005 04:54:17 by Aerokiwi
Who Is The Largest Operators Of 767's Long Haul? posted Mon Dec 13 2004 02:00:24 by Ktachiya
Why The Demise Of The Long-haul Tri-jets? posted Sat May 8 2004 18:38:34 by Saab2000
Finnair And SAS Long Haul posted Sat Apr 10 2004 11:27:49 by Lufthansa