Breiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1860 posts, RR: 2 Posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6787 times:
A Norwegian financial newspaper announces that SAS long-haul division (Scandinavian Airlines International) will have to spare 450 millions Swedish kroner (roughtly 50 millions USD or Euros) before any expansion plan may be considered.
Savings understood to come from a 20 to 30% increased productivity of crews, reduced ground handling costs and better refueling contracts.
It is also mentioned that the long-haul activity has never been profitable (about 25 millions USD or Euros in the red for the first half of 2005, for ex.), but is very important to the company as a whole.
CV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6773 times:
SAS has a long tradition in their long-haul division. They used to fly mostly all over the world in the past. Of course things changed dramatically in these last few years but I still think SAS has a niche in their network. One thing I notice is the fact that beeing in the northern part of Europe sometimes can punish them for anyone that needs to fly anywhere in the world. Let's see, if someone from Portugal needs to fly to SEA, maybe the cheapest flight is with SK via Scandinavia ( maybe not too... ) but just because you need to fly almost 4 hours to get your main flight sometimes that doesn't give motivation for people to do it! I would mind, but I belong to a special breed that don't mind to fly at all!!! Reminds me that last April I had to fly from LIS to KIX and the cheapest way was with AY... yes it was and I wanted to book it but unfortunetely the segment Barcelona/Helsinki was full, otherwise I would go!!! But I know that a lot of people would never do that!
Anyway I like SAS, they have an excelent and new long-haul fleet and maybe one of these days I'll try them ( but before that I'll need to process that with my family, I know that they will come to me complainingwhy we needed to fly so much north to get to our final destination!!!
UpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6619 times:
Quoting CV990 (Reply 1): from LIS to KIX and the cheapest way was with AY... yes it was and I wanted to book it but unfortunetely the segment Barcelona/Helsinki was full, otherwise I would go!!! But I know that a lot of people would never do that!
Never do what? To have a 9-hour Europe-Japan flight instead of the usual 11 or so hours...? Finland is much closer to Asia than any other Western European country, you know... A direct BCN-KIX flight would be only 29 km shorter than the route via HEL! Check the Great Circle Mapper if you don't believe me...
CV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6553 times:
I'm just saying that with the experience I have here from portuguese citizens! They would just not do it!!!! I got that information from the portuguese travel agency that I booked by flight! Unfortunetely that segment BCN/HEL was not available otherwise I would do it!!!
CV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6225 times:
Lot's of people here have their mind mentalized to fly to major hubs like LHR, FRA or ORY. If you come to a point that a ticket price via HEL is € 650,00 plus taxes and via AMS or FRA is €700,00 plus taxes, they will prefer to get over a close airport! I can understand yr. point and I just didn't do it because unfortunetely no space to get to HEL, otherwise the other flights were plenty of seats, and when I tried to book the trip was in January 2005 and the flight from BCN to HEL was already full!!!! But I'm sure if I had that chance people would come to me and say - "Why are u going via HEL???? That's too far away!!!" Maybe there is still a tabu for portuguese to be in one side of Europe and need to get to the other side of Europe, the middle will be the wisest choise!!! Anyway I'm still chasing a new oportunity in the future!!!
KEno From Malaysia, joined Feb 2004, 1842 posts, RR: 29 Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6099 times:
Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 5): So you are seriously saying that the majority would MUCH rather fly 2+10 hours than 3+9 hours?
Nobody wants that extra hours but the problem is most people are still unaware that the shortest route (hopefully cheapest too) between Portugal and Japan is via Finland. Most people still think that the only way to travel to the other side of the world is via the larger European hubs.
Don't blame the general public for being unaware of this, Finnair should have done their marketing and promotion better.
Baw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2018 posts, RR: 29 Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5968 times:
If SAS is doing badly on intercontinental routes, then they had better look to other routes than Seattle-Copenhagen. This route has been consistently one of the best producing routes on SAS entire system. On average the route runs an annual load factor of 85%, nearly 100% in the summer months and they can charge a premium now because traveling via Copenhagen is much easier than transiting either Amsterdam or Heathrow. People who fly from Seattle tend to fly over the pole rather than go via the eastern US, since it saves 6 hours at least, and on balance, the service is better on BA and SK. Especially SK.
While SK definitely has a problem with its J class product (not up to "bed" standard), it goes out full almost all the time, since the timing of the flights now allow for more connections to/from central Europe. Since BA is the only bed product out of Seattle, SAS tends to be quite competitive against NW, although since NW has switched to the A330 on Amsterdam, that situation may change a little.
SAS does not do well in other markets, because of the fact that most of the traffic to/from the other US gateways is mostly traffic to/from Scandinavia. From Seattle, the traffic goes beyond Scandinavia into Europe and into the Middle East, which makes Seattle very different than other SK routes. What SK will have to figure out now is how can they market themselves so that they can garner a larger percentage of the beyond Scandinavia traffic. If they can figure that out, then they will do much better than they are on the North Atlantic.
One thing, DON'T TOUCH SEATTLE! Its doing just fine, thank you.
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
UpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5896 times:
Quoting KEno (Reply 8): Don't blame the general public for being unaware of this, Finnair should have done their marketing and promotion better.
1) I never blamed the general public. I was asking CV990 if HE really thinks that is the way things stand.
2) Finnair does not serve Portugal on scheduled flights, so there is little marketing to be done in Portugal. I believe the mentality in Spain (where AY flies both MAD and BCN) is different because of the marketing etc.
CV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5875 times:
Did you see my post when I told how people think? Well that's the way they think.... not me, but I'm just a minority in this matter and maybe because I understand this the same way has you.... but what can I do? I think mostly portuguese don't really feel connected with Scandinavia and Northern Europe has a hub!!!
I feel sad that AY left Portugal in the past, specially taking in mind that Portugal is a popular place for vacations and they used to regulary fly to LIS via MAD. But they still have charter flights to FAO with 757's.
FBU 4EVER! From Norway, joined Jan 2001, 998 posts, RR: 7 Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5824 times:
There are plans to lease 2 A330-200's (new-build a/c) to expand the Intercont. routes.However,the Board of Directors will not grant the Intercont. Division permission to go ahead with the plans until SAS' financial situation has improved. The requirement to save a further 450-500 million Kroner concers all of SAS,not just Intercont.,and is part of the Turnaround-2005 plan which is not yet completed.
I will be transferring from my beloved MD-80 onto the A340 this coming winter,and when that happens I think we'll see a few new routes added to our network.Most likely Asian destinations out of STO.
And yes,SAS will add new sleeper seats in Business Class.Enjoy!
CRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2131 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5723 times:
Quoting Breiz (Thread starter): It is also mentioned that the long-haul activity has never been profitable
That was one of the arguments for closing the OSL-EWR twice so far this millennium. The flights went out with relatively high load factors but yields were too low to make a profit.
My auntie flew in EuroClass on that route many times, mostly on the 767, and told me that many seats had to be empty so that a few seats could be converted into sleeper seats/beds. The seats behind would thus be useless as there was no room left. No wonder it wasn't profitable...
RootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4180 posts, RR: 43 Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4928 times:
I always thought that SAS has a geat potential to produce high load factors towards asia. Many European routes actually pass over Scandinavia or not too far to get to Asia. I think CPH or ARN could be some sort of hub for flights towards Asia
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31750 posts, RR: 73 Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4885 times:
SAS officials have been in close talks with MIA about launching service to the airport. Still a ways off...November 2006 is the earliest the flights would launch, but I put my money on MIA being their next North American city. Before that, though, expect to see Stockholm get a flight to a current Asian destination, possibly Shanghai. The Swedish media has been reporting this.
RedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2137 posts, RR: 4 Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4674 times:
Quoting RootsAir (Reply 16): I think CPH or ARN could be some sort of hub for flights towards Asia
If HEL can be one, then CPH and ARN should at least have the same potential, if not a bigger potential, since these cities are bigger also. One advantage that HEL has, though, is the airport terminal, which in my view is far better for connections than ARN or CPH.
Baw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2018 posts, RR: 29 Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4380 times:
SAS with bed seats in J class will clean up in Seattle. I mean clean up big time. Can you imagine, a bed seat and SAS service? That is something people here will pay for without batting an eye.
Good move SAS. Of course, this will really damage NW more than BA, since BA's traffic is more O&D SEA-LON. However, if there is a choice of carriers to central Europe, who will you take, NW to AMS on the 330, or SK to CPH on the 340?
From Seattle, you will probably end up on Northwest, because the SAS flight will be so booked up there will not be another choice
I'll be interested to see which seat product they choose for their J class product. There are so many choices out there...
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
Orion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4170 times:
I rather think SAS has enough aircarft types in its fleet! It dosent need to add any new types, although the fleet managers are probably at this moment, in their wisdom, planning to order A380s, 777300s and a couple of 787-3s while leasing in a couple of 757s.