Kjet12 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 975 posts, RR: 8 Posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7330 times:
Note: This post is just a RUMOR I heard from a relative of mine at United.
Normally I am not one to post rumors I hear from my relatives at United, but this one was quite interesting. My relative was saying there is a rumor going around that United is going to purchase Polar Air Cargo as their new cargo division and will move their headquarters down to Honolulu. She also went on to say that the Hawaiian government is behind the plan and will do everything it can to help with the purchase and move. Apparently United already has a building they own that is sitting empty in Honolulu, so finding and purchasing a property is not really an issue.
I would like to gather your thoughts on this. Could this be a part of their exit strategy? United already had a cargo division that failed, could this new plan work out?
Uadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 10 Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7221 times:
united cargo #1 was a flop due to poor planning and the unreliability of the dc10s, i read this rumor about 2 months ago off a transcipt from a alpa(ua) meeting and top ual guys. if i can find it i will post it here. if it does become a reality i think it could work as long as you have alpa and other pertenant groups involved and on board. dont know if polar is alpa or not
AA7573E From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 475 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7157 times:
No way. Not a snowballs chance in hell it will happen. Tell me where they will get the money for the acquisition? They are taking out all debt financing to get out of BK, which will have strong covenants on it. There is no equity in the airline, and everything that they own is already encumbered, to the point that it has no value in terms of raising cash.
HAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2499 posts, RR: 53 Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7143 times:
Yes, Polar is ALPA. They are also in an ugly contract battle with their pilots. Two days after the National Mediation Board released the pilots/management into a 30 day cooling off period, management fired 24 probationary pilots and moved two of the 747-400's to sister carrier Atlas. ALPA is suing because the 30 day cooling off is supposed to be a 'status quo' period with no changes (i.e. firing, moving planes etc).
Also, UAL has precious little cash, and is still in bankruptcy to boot. I don't know if they would be able to purchase anything like that cargo division at this time.
All together, I don't think it looks like too good a match at this time.
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
Petertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3270 posts, RR: 12 Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7054 times:
There might be a bit of a financial problem.
This story reminds me of a program I once saw on TV about SABENA. A new plane had been delivered and one of the SN employees said that as long as new planes where coming in, nothing could be wrong..... a few days later SN was no more. Sorry to say this, but your friend might be deluded.
Crosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2592 posts, RR: 59 Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6989 times:
Has Atlas Air even indicated any willingness to sell Polar Air?
I'd think in United's current dismal financial situation the last thing on their list of priorities would be the acquisition of a non-core business... Where's the business-advantage of this transaction for United?
SRT75 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 252 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6699 times:
First, to the nay-sayers. . . . $3 billion in exit financing and a bankruptcy process which saw the creation of a new division of United--Ted. This rumor is not impossible. (Perhaps improbable, but not impossible.)
Second, probably would be more of a "merger" involving stock as part of the purchase price.
Third, in addition to the mentioned HNL facility, UA has a relatively new and large cargo complex at LAX (an airport also served by Polar). Might be a good fit if UA wants to make a bid to become a major player in Asian cargo.
Avianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5881 posts, RR: 39 Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6405 times:
Quoting 777D (Reply 13): Is it possible that UAL might some how implement a cargo code share?
thats the only possibilty that I thought about, but for what routes? on the transpac it makes not sense for polar as the marekt if full and they could fill up the space without giving space to a partner..... and for europe it would be a bad deal for united, as united isn´t able to fill up the own pax planes with cargo and the md-cargo market is very very well served and the rates are going from day to day down...
ER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2344 posts, RR: 7 Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6293 times:
Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 1): united cargo #1 was a flop due to poor planning and the unreliability of the dc10s
Actually that was United Cargo part 2. They had a large cargo operation in the early 80's using DC-8 freighters and a hub in ORD. I could be wrong on the reason for their dis-continuing these routes, but I seem to recall it was because they would have had to retro-fit all the DC-8's with new quieter engines and decided that it wasn't worth it since by that time they were flying a huge number of pax DC-10's which could carry a substantial amount of cargo in their bellies. Anyone who worked at UA at that time that can verify that or correct me if I'm wrong?
Brucek From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 255 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5775 times:
Quoting Access-Air (Reply 19): "Note: This post is just a RUMOR I heard from a relative of mine at United"
Maybe a rumor, maybe not. Doesn't UA have to really get to do something different or they'll be back in bankruptcy again? With the powerhouse of China still spinning up and consuming more and more of the available resources, cargo sure sounds like a good bet to me. I see in the weekend paper where the LA port has just gone to 24 hours a day and still can't handle the tonnage from China arriving by sea. I think it's got merit- especially if they can do it with stock that doesn't require cash- at least for a while. If I was a creditor, I'd be inclined to stay with a recovery plan longer if a new business plan meant that it wasn't just a return to "plain old vanilla United" (albeit re-worked).
StevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5686 times:
Quoting Dc10rules (Reply 17): I am a fan and was a frequent DC-10 flyer on UA (ORD-LAS, ORD-DTW, ORD-DEN to name a few)
I never experienced a delay except for wx.
Was I just lucky a lot or were the 10's a pain in the arse and unreliable as stated above?
The DC-10's used for cargo were actually DC-10-30s, to handle the longer range routes. The domestic DC-10s you would have rode on were DC-10-10's. The -30s were newer to the UA fleet than the series 10s.
Also, it all comes down (as it always does) to how well the aircraft is maintained. The -30s were getting old as well, and it didn't make sense to invest millions into them. Perhaps UA will be better using what Polar has now, but even then, they're older 747s.
S12PPL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5430 times:
Quoting AA7573E (Reply 2): No way. Not a snowballs chance in hell it will happen. Tell me where they will get the money for the acquisition? They are taking out all debt financing to get out of BK, which will have strong covenants on it. There is no equity in the airline, and everything that they own is already encumbered, to the point that it has no value in terms of raising cash.
Ah, yes...You are the arm chair CEO that knows all. I find it amazing that you know for sure that United never will purchase Polar.
I get so sick and damn tired of people making posts like this. Here's a hint: