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Qantas And Its 777s - Which Routes Are Likely?  
User currently offlineSamurai 777 From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 2458 posts, RR: 4
Posted (14 years 6 months 20 hours ago) and read 3480 times:

Since the 777-200 is very likely to be ordered by Qantas, I'd like to see which routes are likely to be operated by QF 777s.

I believe they'd be great for use on routes long flown by 747SPs and 747-200s, both of which may be retired soon, if not already. SYD-HNL (I'm not sure if QF'd fly 777s into Canada or the US, but it's a possibility), SYD-PER-JNB and from MEL and/or BNE to certain southeast Asian destinations like KUL and SIN (Malaysian, SIA and Thai do fly 777s into MEL, BNE and PER, I think) sound like good bets.

Opinions and answers are very welcome!

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTAA_Airbus From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (14 years 6 months 18 hours ago) and read 3201 times:

Well one of there reasons for purchasing such a long range aircrafts was to be able to connect Perth with London direct. Also theyre looking at Sydney Dallas direct.

Qantas has recently changed to 767 for Sydney Honolulu, however thats probably because of the Australian winter, the pax there will be upped come summer.

Perth J'burg, well etops would be an issue there, if the rating is 207 minutes, well they might just be ok, because I can only think of one port in between Perth and J'burg and thats atleast 7 hours from Perth.

I think theyd want to put a new aircraft on the Perth Singapore route. They currently fly 767s of which are competing against SIAs 777 which now flys 14 times a week, plus the A340 thats flys 7 times a week. I believe SIA are also intending on upping that even more to a total of 24 flights a week making Perth one of SIAs most frequently visited ports in the world. Qantas obviously needs to do something there. Perth's skys will soon be fully owned by an overseas carrier, and we cant have that. Not that I dont like SIA.

But in all seriousness, they can put a 777 on any route  


User currently offlineBNE From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 3188 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (14 years 6 months 16 hours ago) and read 3169 times:

If and when they get their 777s I would think that destinations in Asia would be first, Tokyo, Singapore, Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur. I can't see flying them across the Pacific, even stopping in Honolulu.
Sydney - Dallas no way. Maybe good for Americans flying with American Airlines, for Australians you would stop there just to change planes and fly somewhere else. I have not seen too many package holidays for Dallas or the local area being advertised lately.
Perth - London not likely with the first few, what a long time on a plane. At least with a stop in Singapore you can get up and go for a walk. Isn't Singapore a good place for people from Perth to connect to other points in Asia.
Does anyone know what routes the 747SPs are doing at the moment. Are these planes likely to be replaced first.



Why fly non stop when you can connect
User currently offlineJohnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2597 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (14 years 6 months 16 hours ago) and read 3160 times:

I'm not sure of this, but didn't someone recently produce a map showing that Dallas-Sydney wasn't possible because of ranges?

User currently offlineTSV From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 1641 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (14 years 6 months 15 hours ago) and read 3143 times:

The Boeing charts in the latest Australian Aviation (p27) show that Sydney- Chicago is just outside the 777-200ER's range while Sydney-New York is possible with the 777-200X.

Perth-London might be a long time in one plane but it would be interesting to try and see what it's like.



"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
User currently offlineMas777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2937 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (14 years 6 months 15 hours ago) and read 3143 times:

I can't see Qantas returning to Malaysia myself - since their second withdrawal this year - QF has just about committed commercial suicide in Malaysia. QF had difficulty filling their 767s on the KUL-SYD route before the introduction of BA's 744 service. This gave QF a boost in confidence in Malaysia but after this withdrawal - anyone travelling with QF out of Malaysia would definately have to think twice...only MAS and Lauda Air seem committed to their passengers on the KUL-Oz routes.

User currently offlineFlyBoeing From United States of America, joined May 2000, 866 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (14 years 6 months 12 hours ago) and read 3118 times:

Since Qantas and American are both in OneWorld, it's almost inevitable to use the 777LR for service all the way to Dallas so that the alliance is more fully served.

User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12563 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (14 years 6 months 10 hours ago) and read 3099 times:

One route which mightn't come to mind obviously is Dublin, Ireland. Ireland is Europe's fastest growing economy and of course, a large part of the Aussie population is of Irish descent. QF and BA currently enjoy a majority of the growing traffic between Asia/Australia and Ireland. There is currently no direct service, as both QF and BA use 744s (and BA is hardly likely to fly a 744 to Dublin!) If they don't take the risk, someone like EK or MH will and QF will lose the initiative and some of the valuable premium traffic.

A 2-3 times weekly (for a start) 777 service from Dublin to SYD via BKK or SIN might just help to protect the airline's position in the market.


User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (14 years 6 months 8 hours ago) and read 3080 times:

I think the map in question showed that Dallas was OK, but the route to Miami would go throught the ETOPS no-fly zone. But why would anyone want to go to Dallas to connect for a flight when they could go to LA or SFO instead? Overcrowding at LAX and SFO? (And also why would anyone want to go to Dallas anyway?! )

Aaron G.


User currently offlinePerthWA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (14 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3040 times:

Perth London really wouldnt be that longer flight when you think about it. Aircraft will be the -200LR, when it comes thru.
Flying time will be 3 hours shorter than what it is via Singapore, so really it would only be 1-2 longer than flying from Singapore - London. Thats why it is such a serious idea.
BA have said they will definately commit to this route if they decide to get hold of -200LRs.

As for SPs, these are the routes that have scheduled SP service.
Remember, QFA only has 2 of them.

Sydney- Cairns - Nagoya both ways

hmmmm, thats more or less it as far as scheduled services go. Obviously they might get thrown on somewhere else. They have come to Perth from Melb / Syd as another wide body option. But thats pretty erratic.

Not last week but the week before, a SP took of from Sydney and a Pelican went straight threw the number 1 engine. He was given the all clear to fly on, however the pilot landed again and they emptied out a bucket full of blood and feathers out of the engine.

TAA_Airbus / PerthWA


User currently offlineXQF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (14 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3039 times:

I think DFW would be the logical destination. The reason is that QF already codeshares a great deal with American out of LAX, but to a limited number of destinations as LAX is not a true AA hub. Dallas/Ft Worth on the other hand is their largest hub. So for instance if someone was going Sydney to St Louis they would now go QF SYD-LAX, AA LAX-DFW, AA DFW-STL, but with a direct SYD-DFW service it would become a one stop service. Sounds great! Especially after a transpacific crossing, the last thing you need is more time in the air or in transit.

User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (14 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3034 times:

Aaahhh, XQF...

But with AA's new LAX schedule, the person wanting to fly SYD-STL COULD fly SYD-LAX on QF, and then connect onto a non-stop LAX-STL flight aboard AA!  

(I understand your point, though...like flying from Sydney to Little Rock!)

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineBritishmidland From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (14 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3031 times:

the reason they are considering flying to DFW ... is oneworld. with the alliance AA already has the QF flight to LAX ... an added AA hub to the QF network would be beneficial to both parties as a customer from the East Coast might connect through DFW on their way to SYD more as a convenience as opposed to O/D traffic. why not add a DFW-SYD route to the growing oneworld ?

User currently offlineTAA_Airbus From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (14 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3033 times:

I think most of you are forgetting that the 777 wont be in red and white for while yet. And by the time it will be available to use, pax numbers will have increased and there will be strong market for these routes.

TAA_Airbus



User currently offlineSamurai 777 From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 2458 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (14 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3025 times:

PerthWA, how long has QF been using 747SPs on the SYD-CNS-NGO route? When I went to CNS from SYD in '93 (I know, it's been a helluva long time since I last went to Australia!), I went on a 747-400 from SYD to CNS! This route was part of the SYD-CNS-NGO run, of course.

BTW, I'd sure love to see QF 777s in YVR and YYZ! Remember that Canadian Airlines is no longer in the oneworld alliance, so QF has plans to fill that void by flying 767-300s to these Canadian airports. Both runs will go through HNL, due to range limitations of the 763.



User currently offlineTAA_Airbus From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (14 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3010 times:

I really dont know, I was just going by what they use now. But remember, 7 years is a long time, things change.

But remember, with Qantas aircraft, nothing is ever certain, sometimes aircraft types change on a week to week basis. They ofcourse already know what aircraft is going to be used, but they cant exactly fit it in the timetable.

Also, only a few weeks ago, an SP came thru Perth and continuing to Africa.
On the schedule it said 742 or 744, so really, nothing is certain.

PerthWA / TAA_Airbus


User currently offlineNight Hawk From Australia, joined Jul 1999, 273 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (14 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2994 times:

Hi Every1

Was just thinking about the PER - Jo'burg route. Someone mentioned Etops problems on that route. Just curious, wouldnt Christmas and Cocos Islands be close enough to eliminate that problem??

Regards

Greg


User currently offlineTAA_Airbus From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (14 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2981 times:

There to far north as far as I know and I dont think they can take big equipment. I may be mistaken, but Im sure they have only a small runway.

Whats the minimum length that a widebody would require ie. 777


User currently offlineSamurai 777 From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 2458 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (14 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2958 times:

YVR(Vancouver Int'l) is perfectly capable of handling at least a few 777s operated by any airline! It sees a lot of 747s, especially from Asia. Cathay Pacific, JAL, Lufthansa, BA are only some of the carriers flying their 747s to YVR. So is YYZ(Lester B. Pearson Int'l, Toronto). YYZ does have Korean Air 777-200s flights, and also handles BA 777-200s as well.

I'm not sure if a 777-200LR could go nonstop from SYD to YVR, but I think YYZ may be just outside of the 777-200LR range. A stop in HNL would probably still be likely for Canadian-bound QF 777 flights.


User currently offlineBritishmidland From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (14 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2953 times:

CNS-DRW is operated by 747SP aircraft continueing onto SIN and back.

back to QF + 777 : --- the 777-200LR estimated range would be: 16,328km. The distance (using Great Circle Routes) from:
  • SYD-YVR:
    12,458km

  • SYD-YYZ:
    15,536km

  • SYD-JFK:
    16,001km


    By this standard, QF can reach just about any destination it wants to from SYD with the exception of Central and Western Europe, and provided it stays within ETOPS, but with 207 "out of the box" that will be less of a problem. (Actually I just checked the 207 ETOPS map and that would not be a problem with the current routing (SYD-JFK)     and that would make me and QF very happy 
    ... probably the Boring Aircraft Company too  


  • User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
    Reply 20, posted (14 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2944 times:

    Mr. Milton from AC has said that they are looking at increasing the A340-500 orders, and when the A340-500's come online one route they may begin eventually would be YVR-SYD non-stop. QF would probably have to fly non-stop if it wanted to stay in the market, so I would expect 777's to fly to YVR sometime, unless the new 763 service fails.

    User currently offline777x From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
    Reply 21, posted (14 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2946 times:

    I may be wrong, but I don't think SYD-JFK is possible in both directions due to prevailing winds, even though it fits (just) under the published range for the 777-200LR. Although perhaps it could be done with a weight restriction. Anybody know for sure?



    User currently offlineBritishmidland From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
    Reply 22, posted (14 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2942 times:

    777x--
    right ... although i was saying that it was possible ... i failed to think about the winds (you know thinking about other things) but the same thing applies to the ORD-HKG flight UA operates, non-stop with the winds HKG-ORD but ORD-HKG stops in ANC. possible ... but HKG and ORD are both in the northern hemisphere so the prevailing winds are the same in the same season, with SYD-JFK 2 dif hemispheres so the winds might be a problem .... lets get on GE to make a GE90X with more thrust to push harder through those winds   or Boeing for a 777-200ELR (extra long range).


    User currently offlineSamurai 777 From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 2458 posts, RR: 4
    Reply 23, posted (14 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2942 times:

    I see. The 777-200LR CAN actually go from SYD-YYZ nonstop. But as Brtishmidland said, winds may be a problem. HNL may still be a stop for fuel, like ANC is for several Asian and N. American carriers coming in from Asia.

    Probably the best thing to do is put in larger fuel tanks. Case in point: El Al Israeli Airlines has actually fitted some of its 767s with extra fuel tanks in order to be able to go from Montreal to Tel Aviv non-stop. There's no reason Qantas couldn't do the same with 777s, so it can really fly them all the way to JFK without wind problems, if 747-400s don't generate the desired load factors (QF does fly its 747-400s to JFK via LAX).

    I wonder how long such a flight that would be on a 777LR from SYD to YVR, YYZ and JFK. I'm guessing about 15 hours to YVR and about 18 hours to YYZ or JFK nonstop!! Kinda bit long for any passenger to sitting in a flight like that.


    User currently offline777x From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
    Reply 24, posted (14 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2927 times:

    Yes, they could add extra fuel tanks, however, most airlines don't do this because, more fuel = less cargo = higher fares. It would be truly great to have JFK-SYD nonstop though!

    777x



    25 TAA_Airbus : Truly Great huh, I wouldnt fly it, Id go QF 107 via LAX any day of the week.
    26 Rushed : give me a stopover any day of the week... id hate to be on a plane for that long.. JAL ATL - NRT was long enough for me.. id hate to go SYD - JFK non
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