LH459 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 886 posts, RR: 1 Posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6739 times:
My 1st post on A.net after lurking for ages!
The article is from yesterday. Of course in the wake of the latest TANS crash this type of coverage isn't surprising, but I really don't think LAN Peru and TACA should be mentioned in the same breath with TANS. Read on: http://www.cnn.com/2005/TRAVEL/08/30/peru.airlines.reut/index.html
Curious to hear what the Peruanos here on the forum think!
"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
AA54Heavy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 189 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6706 times:
Interesting...yeah, I would think atleast LAN would have some decent airplanes (newer A320s)...
But it concerns me nonetheless, I'm planning a trip to Peru for winter break with the fam. We're flying into LIM on AA, and out of Guayaquil on the same. But in between, we have TACA Peru from Lima-Guayaquil and the choice of either LAN or TACA to Cuzco...I am wondering if anyone has anythoughts on these options.....
BigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2755 posts, RR: 7 Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6682 times:
Quoting LH459 (Thread starter): Curious to hear what the Peruanos here on the forum think!
I believe citizens of Peru are called "Peruvians."
I was in Peru a couple of months ago and fly LAN LIM-CUZ and LIM-IQT. Their planes are new and they appear have a good operation.
N276AASTT From US Virgin Islands, joined Jan 2004, 620 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6665 times:
Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 2): I believe citizens of Peru are called "Peruvians."
Peruanos is the Spanish word which means Peruvians in English. He just used the spanish word instead. He is correct.
BigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2755 posts, RR: 7 Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6655 times:
Carmenlu15 From Guatemala, joined Dec 2004, 4686 posts, RR: 35 Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6654 times:
Quoting AA54Heavy (Reply 1): But in between, we have TACA Peru from Lima-Guayaquil and the choice of either LAN or TACA to Cuzco...I am wondering if anyone has anythoughts on these options.....
Rest assured, both are excellent choices with regards to safety. I'll have to agree with LH459 here:
Quoting LH459 (Thread starter): I really don't think LAN Peru and TACA should be mentioned in the same breath with TANS
Juventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6616 times:
I read an article on one website last week, I forgot which one, but it was headlined "Peruvian skies full with outdated jetliners". I think it was FlightInternational.com
Rommel From Canada, joined May 2004, 11 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6598 times:
I flew LAN Peru 2 years ago and the aircraft/service seemed great. Absolutely no 2nd thoughts getting on the plane. Heck, nicer than Delta and I'm Platinum and have been for the last 4 years!
MD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3091 posts, RR: 60 Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6594 times:
Quoting Carmenlu15 (Reply 5): Rest assured, both are excellent choices with regards to safety. I'll have to agree with LH459 here:
Quoting LH459 (Thread starter):
I really don't think LAN Peru and TACA should be mentioned in the same breath with TANS
Saludos
This is quite a... uh... "discriminatory" statement. This could have happened to LAN Peru or TACA Peru as well. The fact that TANS is state owned and flies leased 737-200, while the other ones fly newer airplanes, like the A320/319, does not make her the cause of the accident. The accident is known to be weather caused.
Cheers!
Gastón - The MD-11 Junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
SkyHigh777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 371 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6567 times:
My mother is Peruvian and we fly to Lima all the time. A couple of years ago we took a flight from LIM to Cuzco on LanPeru when it first started up. The plane was in great condition, FA's very professional (and good looking) and the flight was perfect. I have flown back and forth from Peru to the states on AA and many other airlines and it has always been safe. I have taken a couple of domestic flights within Peru that have been safe as well.
I think this is another attempt at the media scaring people off on stupid statistics. I would be more worried about getting into a taxi cab in the middle of rush hour in Lima than getting on an airplane there.
MGA From Nicaragua, joined Mar 2005, 726 posts, RR: 4 Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6564 times:
Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 8): This is quite a... uh... "discriminatory" statement. This could have happened to LAN Peru or TACA Peru as well. The fact that TANS is state owned and flies leased 737-200, while the other ones fly newer airplanes, like the A320/319, does not make her the cause of the accident.
I think its more of a maintnance, Administration and organizatio combination, although I am pretty sure many will agree that age of the fleet and the more requirements needed has a lot to do with it....
FLY2LIM From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1183 posts, RR: 11 Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6563 times:
Hi guys:
As a real "peruano" I have something to say about this. First, I have been stating for a couple of years on a.net that TANS is a ticking time bomb. They fly any airplane they can get their hands on and fly to airports that are dangerous and complicated to fly into. In addition, many pilots in Peru are former military pilots who come in with the mindset of the military, the commitment to "complete the mission" rather than vie for the safety of the passengers. That may be the case in the recent TANS crash, but I would rather not speculate.
Still ...
The CNN article has a couple of glaring errors, most notably calling Aero Continente by the new name. The airline that was shut down was Aero Continente, while Nuevo Continente was the new airline, no longer owned by the alleged drug dealer, that could not secure financing and folded. Small detail, but the correspondent should know better.
Quoting AA54Heavy (Reply 1): But it concerns me nonetheless, I'm planning a trip to Peru for winter break with the fam. We're flying into LIM on AA, and out of Guayaquil on the same. But in between, we have TACA Peru from Lima-Guayaquil and the choice of either LAN or TACA to Cuzco...I am wondering if anyone has anythoughts on these options.....
Both LAN and TACA are owned by international corporations that do "real maintenance" on their airplanes. They fly "state of the art" equipment and they use crew that is trained up to FAA standards, much higher than Peruvian standards (if there are any) for the industry. The airlines may be losing money, but you can be sure that the parent companies would not let them fold or have an accident easily.
I have friends who often fly both LAN and TACA. One friend flies LAN about 3-5 times a month between LIM and CUZ, as an executive for the company that owns the railroads in Machu Picchu and several hotels in the country. He has never told me about any danger.
Another friend chooses to fly TACA and he flies about once every two months, mainly internationally. He says the service is excellent and the planes are, like Lan, "state of the art" planes that are brand new.
You have nothing to worry about.
My only question would be if you could fly LIM to Guayaquil on LAN, which is a OneWorld partner, so you can get the miles for the entire itinerary. Of course, now I'm thinking that TACA may be OW also. Anyone?
Quoting Carmenlu15 (Reply 5): Rest assured, both are excellent choices with regards to safety. I'll have to agree with LH459 here:
Me too.
Quoting Juventus (Reply 6): I read an article on one website last week, I forgot which one, but it was headlined "Peruvian skies full with outdated jetliners". I think it was FlightInternational.com
You people need to start being a little more choosy about what you read from the internet. Still, the article is wrong. Peruvian skies are not full of outdated jetliners, since most of these birds sit in pieces near the runways of Peru. However, Peru is full of old planes that cannot fly.
MD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3091 posts, RR: 60 Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6559 times:
Quoting MGA (Reply 10): I think its more of a maintnance, Administration and organizatio combination, although I am pretty sure many will agree that age of the fleet and the more requirements needed has a lot to do with it....
Huh?
Okay, then tell me why now AR, AU, or 4M (LAN Argentina, HA!) 737-200 (there's about 35 total) has crashed on landing or taking off during a Sudestada, which is as strong (or stronger) than the weather reported during the crash? - Even with AR and AU being state-owned -that means really disorganized-, that never happened.
The plane was in excellent condition - it had just gone through a check. You seem to want to blame the airline for something that wasn't caused by an airplane nor the airline. Please keep in mind that if TANS goes away -which I don't think it will happen- many places in Perú will be left without air service.
Quoting SkyHigh777 (Reply 9): I think this is another attempt at the media scaring people off on stupid statistics. I would be more worried about getting into a taxi cab in the middle of rush hour in Lima than getting on an airplane there.
Ditto. Sensasionalistic crap.
Cheers!
Gastón - The MD-11 Junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
LH459 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 886 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6520 times:
Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 11): As a real "peruano" I have something to say about this. First, I have been stating for a couple of years on a.net that TANS is a ticking time bomb
Saludos, Fly2Lim! Thank you for your comments--you summed things up very nicely.
And this was rather my point, when I made the original post.
Nonetheless, while it may or may not have been a factor in the most recent accident, TANS' previous safety record speaks for itself.
"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
AA54Heavy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 189 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6478 times:
Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 11): My only question would be if you could fly LIM to Guayaquil on LAN, which is a OneWorld partner, so you can get the miles for the entire itinerary. Of course, now I'm thinking that TACA may be OW also. Anyone?
A good point...we're actualy redeeming miles for a roundtirp, TUS-DFW-LIM-Guayaquil-MIA-DFW-TUS....They have a spot for us on the TACA flight with no problems in the redeeming of miles. Also, I was under the impression that LanPeru and LanEcuador flights were not part of oneworld so you could not get miles on those. But I'll defenitely book on LAN to cuzco (which can't be covered under the free tickets) if I can get the miles....but its also significantly more expensive than the TACA flights
MGA From Nicaragua, joined Mar 2005, 726 posts, RR: 4 Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6438 times:
Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 12): You seem to want to blame the airline for something that wasn't caused by an airplane nor the airline. Please keep in mind that if TANS goes away -which I don't think it will happen- many places in Perú will be left without air service.
Not necesarily. I´m comenting on the mentality of people and why they might blame the airline. As a Nicaraguan, I know how bad the transport situation is for the Jungle.
FLY2LIM From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1183 posts, RR: 11 Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6390 times:
Quoting LH459 (Reply 13): Saludos, Fly2Lim! Thank you for your comments--you summed things up very nicely.
Thank you!
Quoting SkyHigh777 (Reply 9): My mother is Peruvian and we fly to Lima all the time. A couple of years ago we took a flight from LIM to Cuzco on LanPeru when it first started up. The plane was in great condition, FA's very professional (and good looking) and the flight was perfect. I have flown back and forth from Peru to the states on AA and many other airlines and it has always been safe. I have taken a couple of domestic flights within Peru that have been safe as well.
I think this is another attempt at the media scaring people off on stupid statistics. I would be more worried about getting into a taxi cab in the middle of rush hour in Lima than getting on an airplane there.
I disagree. I would never get on AeroCondor, Star Peru (former StarUp), or TANS. You just don't know what shortcuts they take. And believe me, peruvians (yes, it's a cultural problem) will take shortcuts whenever possible. In the case of LAN or TACA, they are not run by peruvians and that gives me a little more of a sense of security.
As far as taking a taxi in the middle of rush hour in Lima, I take taxis all the time but you never know who you are getting in the car with. I would say that this would be something to be aware of 24/7, not just during rush hour.
FLY2LIM From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1183 posts, RR: 11 Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6260 times:
Quoting MGA (Reply 17): jejeje... sounds a lot like some Central Americans... They always loose their luggage on TACA (BS in most cases....
Not sure what you mean by sounding like a Central American. I just know that TACA runs a good operation and that their maintenance facility at San Salvador is used by many airlines. So I have to assume that their maintenance is a cut above any of the "peruvian" carriers.
FLY2LIM
Carmenlu15 From Guatemala, joined Dec 2004, 4686 posts, RR: 35 Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6223 times:
Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 18): Not sure what you mean by sounding like a Central American.
I think what he meant is that many Central Americans complain that TACA is always losing the luggage (or complain about service in general) just because it is run by Central Americans!
(Ok, I know service may not be the best at all times, but at least the call center is giving it a try... )
SkyHigh777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 371 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6170 times:
Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 16): I disagree. I would never get on AeroCondor, Star Peru (former StarUp), or TANS. You just don't know what shortcuts they take. And believe me, peruvians (yes, it's a cultural problem) will take shortcuts whenever possible. In the case of LAN or TACA, they are not run by peruvians and that gives me a little more of a sense of security.
As far as taking a taxi in the middle of rush hour in Lima, I take taxis all the time but you never know who you are getting in the car with. I would say that this would be something to be aware of 24/7, not just during rush hour.
What I mean is that taxi drivers in Peru are pretty crazy and unsafe most of the times, and theres more traffic during rush hour. I agree with you though, you always have to watch your back and be careful who you get in the car with.
But back to the topic, I do know that there are many Peruvian airlines that may be run below safety standards, but I am sure that this is not the case with respectable airlines like LAN. Back in the day when Aeroperu was flying, I was involved in an incident on a flight from LIM-ASU where the plane would not gain altitude and we had to return to the airport (this flight departed at 1am). They told us we would be placed on a different plane, but low and behold they placed us on the same exact one. When we took off the same problem occured and they made us get into brace positions for landing. It was a very scary experience and after that event we didnt trust flying with them anymore so we went home (at 6am).
Arcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2397 posts, RR: 26 Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6114 times:
Although there are some valid points in the report, I think it's a little to "more of the same" in terms of speaking of Latin America. After all, you "expect" to hear news about a bunch of Banana Republics with no order. We know it's not, but to speak of a modern efficient South America just don't match, so it's no news. The report is full of cliches; old aircrafts? LAN has 732s as well, as AR, as many old aircraft flying in USA as well...
Interesting comments about Peruvian idea of receiving so many tourists, a lot of potencial no doubt, but a lot to invest as well. They could try some of the airport policy that has been applied since 1992, with a lot of improvements in term of facilities and safety.
About some of your comments
Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 8): The fact that TANS is state owned and flies leased 737-200, while the other ones fly newer airplanes, like the A320/319, does not make her the cause of the accident
Not when analyzed as an isolated fact, but when you combine old birds, lack of cash, unknown maintenance procedures... you get more chances
Quoting AA54Heavy (Reply 1): we have TACA Peru from Lima-Guayaquil and the choice of either LAN or TACA to Cuzco...I am wondering if anyone has anythoughts on these options.....
My thought? both very respectful airlines making a terrific job in Peru's skies. I would recommend both, although I've never flown TA, I've heard they have very good service
Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 12): You seem to want to blame the airline for something that wasn't caused by an airplane nor the airline.
You seem to want to defend it from nowhere. Remember the crew training and the equipment of the airport and the aircraft
Quoting AA54Heavy (Reply 14): Also, I was under the impression that LanPeru and LanEcuador flights were not part of oneworld so you could not get miles on those
LP is, XL is not...
Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 16): they are not run by peruvians and that gives me a little more of a sense of security.
Come on, don't be unfair! don't feed an image that won't help your country...
Regards )( Arcano
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
CXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1500 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6075 times:
While I do agree with the assessment of TANS, I think CNN is doing the Western-bias thing again. Someone should remind them that LAN has never had a crash, while many US Airlines have had nearly a dozen.
The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
FLY2LIM From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1183 posts, RR: 11 Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5987 times:
Quoting SkyHigh777 (Reply 20): But back to the topic, I do know that there are many Peruvian airlines that may be run below safety standards, but I am sure that this is not the case with respectable airlines like LAN. Back in the day when Aeroperu was flying, I was involved in an incident on a flight from LIM-ASU where the plane would not gain altitude and we had to return to the airport (this flight departed at 1am). They told us we would be placed on a different plane, but low and behold they placed us on the same exact one. When we took off the same problem occured and they made us get into brace positions for landing. It was a very scary experience and after that event we didnt trust flying with them anymore so we went home (at 6am).
Ahhhh, AeroPeru. I remember when there was an embargo and Peruvian carriers couldn't fly to Miami, and American carriers (Eastern at the time) couldn't fly to Lima. I took an Air Jamaica flight to Montego Bay that connected to an awaiting AeroPeru DC-8. Man, that thing was falling apart, but it took off (I think all 4 engines were pushing that day, ha ha) and we landed in Lima without incident. First and last time for me.
Quoting Arcano (Reply 21): Come on, don't be unfair! don't feed an image that won't help your country...
There's a saying in English that says "if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it must be a duck." In other words, I'm only telling you what the people I know in Peru say. If you want safe, reliable, and comfortable service that is relatively on time in Peru, you fly LAN or TACA. Period! The image is not being fed. It already exists.
Adriaticus From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1112 posts, RR: 21 Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5879 times:
Interesting. I was in LIM with my wife a few weeks ago, awaiting to board our LP flight to CUZ (IMHO,landing there = airmanship!). While looking outside, I saw a TANS B732 for the first time. It displayed an image of Machu Picchu painted in the tail.
Inexplicably, something gave me the creeps, and thought to myself "I'm glad I'm not flying that airline.
TANS From Czech Republic, joined May 2005, 134 posts, RR: 0 Reply 25, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5871 times:
Next week I'll have over 20 people from the Czech Republic flying over to Peru to take part in a fair that's taking place in Arequipa (southern Peru, about 1000 km. from Lima).
To be honest, while reserving their transport the first choice went to Lan. I've flown them many times and CNN's article is just willingly negative about them. I had no problem putting people on TACA flights either, but then came a moment when all the flights were full and TANS was the only option left.
I consulted all the people that would have to fly with TANS, warned them of the possible risks involved and most of them, funnily enough, said they were sure that “lightning doesn't strike the same tree twice.” I’m not sure about that, but let’s hope they are right.
Some of you might remember that a few months ago there was this huge “scandal” in Peru about the in-flight video that Lan was showing on its flights and which showed Lima in the wrong light. That issue aside, some Congressmen were proposing (in all seriousness) to ban Lan from Peru and some even went as far as to ask all foreign carriers to leave the country… One truly has to wonder about the sanity of these people and admire the populisms they let out of their mouths, especially at a time when not even three ‘normal’ carriers (and two of them foreign) are not able to satisfy the demand for air travel in the country…
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