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VS To YYZ  
User currently offlineFiaz From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 94 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3619 times:
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hey

i just hear some rumor from a good source that ,, that VS is starting to YYZ again... maybe in november.

Has anyone heard this aswell? is it true?

fiaz

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFiaz From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3602 times:
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sorry

i just heard****


User currently offlineSNBru From Belgium, joined Feb 2005, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3429 times:

I remember they once operated YYZ. Am I correct that VS stopped serving toronto after 9/11?
Which equipment did/will they use?


User currently offlineAccargo From Canada, joined Sep 2004, 610 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3420 times:

Yeah, there going to restart during one of the slower times of the year, on a "marginal" route (for them) with fuel prices climbing higher and higher.
Not Likely.


User currently offlineLeisurejet From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 43 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3411 times:

Quoting SNBru (Reply 2):
remember they once operated YYZ. Am I correct that VS stopped serving Toronto after 9/11?
Which equipment did/will they use?

Yes SNBru you are correct, they operated the service for only a short while in the summer of 2001 and again correct, it was stopped shortly after the 9/11 incident.

At the time they used Boeing 747-200 equipment on the route, as shown landing in Toronto in this photograph....


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Felix Sieder



If they re-introduce the service, I would hazard a guess that initially it would be with a version of their Airbus A340, as November (if this is the starting date) is not exactly high season for this route and then perhaps bring on the Boeing 747-400's for the summer of 2006 !!!


User currently offlineGuyBetsy1 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 840 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3316 times:

VS should forget about YYZ and perhaps go to YVR instead. There are way too many flights from YYZ to LHR already.

User currently offlineYooYoo From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 6057 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3294 times:

Quoting GuyBetsy1 (Reply 5):
VS should forget about YYZ and perhaps go to YVR instead. There are way too many flights from YYZ to LHR already.

Who cares how many flights are YYZ - LHR. I would love seeing VS in Toronto, purely for spotting purposes.  Wink



I am so smart, i am so smart... S-M-R-T... i mean S-M-A-R-T
User currently offlineA340Driver From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 94 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3042 times:

They apparently considered wet leasing an Air New Zealand 744 to operate the route from this summer but this wasn't followed up.

User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5925 posts, RR: 40
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3031 times:

Quoting GuyBetsy1 (Reply 5):
VS should forget about YYZ and perhaps go to YVR instead. There are way too many flights from YYZ to LHR already.

but the YVR LHR (London) sector is also very good served!

regards
Avianca



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineRichard28 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 1619 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2965 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 8):
but the YVR LHR (London) sector is also very good served!

Dont think so!!

choice of AC or BA - its a duopoly route.

A third carrier could spice things up.

Virgin Holidays also do some biz in Vancouver (through Air Canada), so they already have some feed.

As for YYZ - I'd love to see it, but with Mumbai going daily later this year, Dubai coming on line in March, and the Cape Town seasonal service about to re-start, dont think they have enough planes in the fleet to give YYZ another go.... yet.


User currently offlineSkysurfer From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 1136 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2953 times:

It would be nice if it was true. but that remains to be seen. Personally i'd like to see a YYZ - MAN route.....it's very underserved!!!

Cheers



In the dark you can't see ugly, but you can feel fat
User currently offlineACdreamliner From UK - Scotland, joined May 2005, 519 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2910 times:

i'd like any competition to BA  Wink


Where are you going?
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5334 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2883 times:

Quoting A340Driver (Reply 7):
They apparently considered wet leasing an Air New Zealand 744 to operate the route from this summer but this wasn't followed up.

Really? NZ have no spare 744 capacity.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2879 times:

Ok..this might be a silly question, but why doesn't VS have/get any A-330's in their fleet? Since it wouldn't be a big problem to have/get pilots certified for an A-330 (due to "fleet commonality")........I think it would allow VS to fly other thinner routes.......for them..its either large-haul (343/346/747) or no-haul.....I think they are limiting themselves by having such a limited fleet....

the A330 could be good enough to use year round in routes such as LHR-YYZ or LHR-ORD (toughie, but possible-since they did operate to ORD at one time...I flew on VS ORD-LHR-ORD...service sucked, but plane was full!)

actually, with EK having such a large service to LHR/LGW, I would think that VS would be better off serving DXB on an A330 first, rather than going on a larger widebody......

just an idea......



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineCruiser From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1001 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2844 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 13):
Ok..this might be a silly question, but why doesn't VS have/get any A-330's in their fleet? Since it wouldn't be a big problem to have/get pilots certified for an A-330 (due to "fleet commonality")........I think it would allow VS to fly other thinner routes.......for them..its either large-haul (343/346/747) or no-haul.....I think they are limiting themselves by having such a limited fleet....

Many of VS' marketing campaigns have been based on the 'Four Engines For Langhaul' philosophy. I think that Virgin will have to move to the 2-holers fairly soon!

James



Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4785 posts, RR: 43
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2838 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 13):
Ok..this might be a silly question, but why doesn't VS have/get any A-330's in their fleet?

Because VS did a survey few years ago and it revealed that its pax prefer flying a 4 engined aircraft rather than a 2 engined one and this was one of the main factor pointed out by Branson on BBC in July 2004 as to why he chose the A 346 over the B 777-300ERs.

Also from the very beginning VS has only been operating 4 engine types from the B 742s-744s then A 343s-346s and soon A 380s.


User currently offlineMainMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 2097 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2836 times:

Quoting Skysurfer (Reply 10):
It would be nice if it was true. but that remains to be seen. Personally i'd like to see a YYZ - MAN route.....it's very underserved!!!

If you look at CAA figures for passengers to Toronto for the last few years, London's share has been increasing slowly, while from the rest of the UK, the market is declining.

There's no given reason for this, but I suspect that there's no longer the same bulk of emigrants to Ontario and the same levels of VFR traffic that there were say, 10 to 20 years ago.

The MAN-YYZ route is served fantastically well in the peak summer months, but only once or twice a week throughout the winter. From the UK, YYZ is a relatively low yield destination, and v.v.

I'd like to see one dominant airline on the route. Air Canada operated year round for several years until 2001 (I think), but in recent years there's only been one weekly winter flight, and possibly two for 2005/06

[Edited 2005-09-03 02:43:36]

[Edited 2005-09-03 02:44:29]

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2817 times:

Quoting Richard28 (Reply 9):

Dont think so!!

choice of AC or BA - its a duopoly route.

Hardly. BA offers 10 weekly flights and AC offers three daily flights during the summer - more than enough flights. Plus Air Transat flies scheduled YVR-LGW service and there are plenty of charter flights on Zoom and Thomas Cook.



a.
User currently offlineMartinairYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 1209 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2785 times:

Quoting GuyBetsy1 (Reply 5):
VS should forget about YYZ and perhaps go to YVR instead. There are way too many flights from YYZ to LHR already.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
Hardly. BA offers 10 weekly flights and AC offers three daily flights during the summer - more than enough flights

Yeah... 2 airlines... compare that to JFK's 8 or so, and you'll know why tickets are so high on the YYZ-LHR route, especially becuase it is mainly Error Canada controlled!



Chelsea Football Club supporter.
User currently offlineRichard28 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 1619 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2783 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
Hardly. BA offers 10 weekly flights and AC offers three daily flights during the summer - more than enough flights. Plus Air Transat flies scheduled YVR-LGW service and there are plenty of charter flights on Zoom and Thomas Cook.

Still for core high yield biz traffic, and non O&D traffic it's still only AC or BA. The prices to YVR relct this - they are not commensurate with other flights of similar length (compare with LHR-LAX/LHR-SFO for example).

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 14):
Many of VS' marketing campaigns have been based on the 'Four Engines For Langhaul' philosophy. I think that Virgin will have to move to the 2-holers fairly soon!

One of the reasons they dont have two holers is because of fleet utilisation. for example, when a "short flight" arrives at LHR (eg from JFK) that same plane then flies to NRT later in the afternoon.

To have A330's on the fleet would mean the incoming plane could not depart until the next "shorter" longhaul.

This would decrease fleet utilisation and flexiblity considerably - and that is a big factor in the cost of an airline.

[Edited 2005-09-03 03:14:21]

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2755 times:

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 14):
Many of VS' marketing campaigns have been based on the 'Four Engines For Langhaul' philosophy. I think that Virgin will have to move to the 2-holers fairly soon!



Quoting Behramjee (Reply 15):
Because VS did a survey few years ago and it revealed that its pax prefer flying a 4 engined aircraft rather than a 2 engined one and this was one of the main factor pointed out by Branson on BBC in July 2004 as to why he chose the A 346 over the B 777-300ERs.

Also from the very beginning VS has only been operating 4 engine types from the B 742s-744s then A 343s-346s and soon A 380s.

true....but VS's situation is changing also...I think its a bit arrogant to think market situations haven't changed....and we all know pax knowledge...not to mention, there are enough twins flying over the various ponds quite efficiently....I think VS purchaing the A-346's has more to do with the fact SRB mentioned that he eventually wanted to see VS go to an all Airbus fleet (it was mentioned in the BBC during the A-380 rollout this past January).

Quoting Richard28 (Reply 19):
To have A330's on the fleet would mean the incoming plane could not depart until the next "shorter" longhaul.

This would decrease fleet utilisation and flexiblity considerably - and that is a big factor in the cost of an airline.

with enough routes available for picking, I think VS would be able to utilise a small-sized fleet of A-330's which wouldn't hamper their fleet utilisation and flexibility



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineAccargo From Canada, joined Sep 2004, 610 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2626 times:

Quoting MartinairYYZ (Reply 18):
Yeah... 2 airlines... compare that to JFK's 8 or so, and you'll know why tickets are so high on the YYZ-LHR route, especially becuase it is mainly Error Canada controlled!

News for you martinair, AC doesn't control who can fly YYZ-LHR-YYZ. VS is free to add flights anytime it wants to. AC just operates a sched service that appeals to the flying public, with multiple departures daily.  Smile


User currently offlineCayMan From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 905 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2559 times:

Quoting Fiaz (Thread starter):
Hardly. BA offers 10 weekly flights and AC offers three daily flights during the summer - more than enough flights. Plus Air Transat flies scheduled YVR-LGW service and there are plenty of charter flights on Zoom and Thomas Cook

Actually I think BA operates 17 weekly in the summer and AC definitely operates 5x daily--lot of capacity.


User currently offlineRichard28 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 1619 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2527 times:

Quoting CayMan (Reply 22):
Actually I think BA operates 17 weekly in the summer and AC definitely operates 5x daily--lot of capacity.

AC only has three flights in timetable to LHR

AC830/831, AC854/855, AC896/897


User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3768 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2511 times:

I'm suprised no one has mentioned YUL, would demand be enough for a VS service?

I would be happy to see VS return to any Canadian City  Smile

Today (Sat 03 September) there are 9 flights to YYZ
AC869 - 343
AC863 - 763
BA093 - 744
AC857 - 333
BA099 - 772
AC849 - 333
BA097 - 772
AC859 - 763
TS523 - 310 (LGW)

Today (Sat 03 September) there are 6 flights to YVR
AC831 - 763
BA087 - 744
AC855 - 333
AC897 - 763
BA085 - 744
TS503 - 330 (LGW)

Today (Sat 03 September) there are 3 flights to YUL
AC867 - 763
AC865 - 763
BA095 - 772

Rob!  Smile


25 Dogfighter2111 : Virgin used to operate the A320, A321, B737-400 and B767-300. So they have previously sued '2 holers' Thanks Mike
26 Behramjee : Remember that YYZ is a higher yielding destination to serve than YVR and thus looking at it from that perspective, VS would probably fare better in Y
27 Post contains links and images Dogfighter2111 : I never said they ordered them, but Virgin Atlantic Airways did operate them. Here are some pics to prove it: A320: View Large View MediumPhoto ©
28 MAH4546 : On YYZ-LHR. I was talking about YVR-LHR.
29 Avianca : agree, LHR-YVR is very well served! But I think VS should not enter the Canadian market as it´s very good served from LHR. The should use the aircra
30 Post contains images SafetyDude : The majority of the pax answered "eight engines or more". Statistics only tell the truth that wants to be heard. -Will
31 MartinairYYZ : I think you nead to re-undestand my post....... the route is AC-controlled, meaning that they have the monopoly of the route, or you can call it a ve
32 Accargo : You need to understand monopoly, or oligopoly. AC is NOT preventing anyone from operating YYZ-LHR. If AC had that power, then it would be a monopoly.
33 Egmcman : They are going start services to DXB 27 March 2006 initially 4 times a week then 5 times a week from 1 May and daily from 1 June. Airbus A340's are g
34 SNBru : KLM is also serving YVR from Europe, not from UK though. Don't forget Etihad Airways who are coming to YYZ from October.
35 STARalliance24 : I'm pretty sure TS flies YUL-LGW.
36 B742 : Yes they do, but not on the 3rd September they didn't! Rob!
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