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IAD Fuel Supply Shortage & Carrier Effects  
User currently offlineUA744Flagship From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2555 times:

I've heard that since IAD gets its fuel from the Gulf, that there is a possible Jet A shortage going on there.

Anyone know or hear of any unusual flight cancellations, possibly due to this fuel shortage? Is Independence Air operating normally?

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3132 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2535 times:

Usually what happens is they will tanker fuel in from other areas and just keep them on the planes they came in on. But that could possibly mean weight restrictions to keep the fuel, causing more of a loss in actual revenue.


Sean from MCO and MKE



I Don't know where I am anymore
User currently offlineCaptover From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2388 times:

Independence has said that IAD has about 9 days worth of Jet A. They will be doing reverse tankering, which means they will be refueling at cities that have fuel available instead of always refueling at IAD. I don't know if any other Independence cities are having a potential fuel shortage.

User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2321 times:

Quoting UA744Flagship (Thread starter):
I've heard that since IAD gets its fuel from the Gulf,

"From the Gulf" ? AFAIK Jet A comes from a refinery. If Katrina has a massive effect on Jet A-production, IAD will not be the only airport to suffer from.
IN addition to what Captover indicated, AFAIK every airport is legally required to hold stock of fuel for so-and-so many days of operations ...

BTW: Which way is IAD supplied with Jet A ?
Speaking for two airports I´m familiar:
FRA gets one part of its fuel via pipelines directly from refineries downstream the river (IIRC more than 1 pipeline; at least one of them is or was a military pipeline). In addition to this, the operator of FRA has its own quay on the river Rhine (or is it on the river Main ?) to offload tank-ships. IIRC railcars are used only should ice block shipments on the rivers and the stocks decrease.

HAJ gets its supplies by road tanker, but a pipeline (~ 20 km) from a nearby quay on a canal should be under construction now (saving a lot of trucks per day).

-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2136 times:

Quoting HT (Reply 3):
BTW: Which way is IAD supplied with Jet A ?

I don't know for sure but with all the refining capacity around Baltimore Harbor which is a very industrial harbor IAD would probably get its Jet A from Baltimore or other Chesapeake ports. Gulf capacity I understand is piped to ATL.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23306 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2021 times:

Quoting Captover (Reply 2):
I don't know if any other Independence cities are having a potential fuel shortage.

CLT and ATL do, and I would imagine that GSO, GSP, and RDU might also have problems.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineGoodmanr From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 297 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1976 times:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 4):

I don't know for sure but with all the refining capacity around Baltimore Harbor which is a very industrial harbor IAD would probably get its Jet A from Baltimore or other Chesapeake ports. Gulf capacity I understand is piped to ATL.

I don't think this is correct. I think IAD isn't supplied anywhere close to locally but I'm not 100% sure.



USAirways - Chairmans Gold
User currently offlineJeffB From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1940 times:

From the Washington Post:

"The Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority denied a trade report yesterday that said Dulles International Airport was one of 10 that could face jet fuel shortages. Dulles and National are supplied by the Colonial and Plantation pipelines, and they have a two-week supply of fuel on hand, the authority said."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2005/08/31/AR2005083102652.html

Basically, IAD/DCA use two pipelines that get their Jet A from Gulf Refineries. Which is probably a hell of alot cheaper than having it trucked in!


Also, AFAIK, there are no refineries in Baltimore. I know of the fuel depots down in Curtis Bay and there are chemical plants over near Sparrows point/key bridge... but I didn't think any were Petrol refineries. If there are, where are they?

.jeff


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6791 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1880 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
CLT and ATL do, and I would imagine that GSO, GSP, and RDU might also have problems.

Actually, I think that RDU is doing well as far as jet fuel goes. The pipeline (1 of 2) that supplies RDU has been re-establish. It also serves ATL & CLT, so I believe they are out of the water, also.



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineFlybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1839 times:

I guess having to reverse tankering during the fuel shortage at IAD for Independence Air will become a logistics nightmare in assigning new flights... especially if several flights end up short on fuel, but there are a lot of relatively long flights sheduled at that particular time.


"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13549 posts, RR: 100
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1806 times:
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Quoting HT (Reply 3):
"From the Gulf" ? AFAIK Jet A comes from a refinery. If Katrina has a massive effect on Jet A-production, IAD will not be the only airport to suffer from.

Its not just IAD, its all of the airporst fed by the Colonial and Plantation pipelines, see below:

Quoting JeffB (Reply 7):
Dulles and National are supplied by the Colonial and Plantation pipelines, and they have a two-week supply of fuel on hand, the authority said."

Ugh, the Colonial and Plantation pipelines were the ones down. If they have two weeks supply on hand, they'll be ok. Here is a release saying by the weekend the larger Colonial pipeline will be back at 86% capacity:
http://today.reuters.com/investing/f...RGY-COLONIAL-PIPELINE-UPDATE-3.XML

I would *love* to know what the tankering is costing the airlines.

Remember, the gulf refineries did a little more "specialization" in Jet fuel than is normal. I'm guessing due to the presence of the two finished product pipelines giving them a ready market in the southeast and eastern seaboard.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineGo3Team From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3267 posts, RR: 16
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1803 times:

In today's local paper (RIC), they had a write up on how we get our fuel. It indicated that a batch of fuel, transported by Plantation Pipeline, takes about 20 days from the time it leaves Baton Rouge, LA to get to Dulles. The Plantation pipeline has tank facilities near GSO, CLT, ATL, and places closer to Baton Rouge.

For the Colonial Pipeline, they indicate travel time from Houston to New York, is 18.5 days. They have more tank facilities than Plantation, so I assume they have more storage capacity. Here is a link to the story, but it does not have the graphic I am looking at to recite what they said:

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet...icle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031784858769

Its possible that IAD can tap from these tank farms if necessary. The article also states, that it is possible for the pipeline to reverse flow, but that it is not set up for it.

Here in Richmond, all fuel is brought in by truck. Since this is a shit town for air travel, they only receive a few loads a day.



Yay Pudding!
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