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Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois  
User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9362 posts, RR: 26
Posted (9 years 2 weeks ago) and read 4875 times:

Delta Air Lines has discontinued service from Moline to Cincinnati and replaced service from Moline to Atlanta. In the same token, the airline has also initiated service from Bloomington - Normal to Atlanta.

Both of these routes are flown by Air Tran. Airport officials at each city are worried that the appearance of Delta will mean the end of Air Tran service.
Air Tran is credited with revitalizing the Bloomington - Normal (Central Illinois Regional Airport) Airport.

Delta flies the routes with its regional jets while Air Tran serves both airports with its 717 service.

The Delta flood into Illinois also serves Champaign to Cincinnati.


http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/today/sky.htm


I believe a few years ago Delta served Springfield, Illinois, but later pulled out after the route did not find much success.


if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 weeks ago) and read 4863 times:

There's already a thread on this; do a search and you can find the posts.

User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9362 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4831 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 1):
There's already a thread on this; do a search and you can find the posts.

tried, found nothing. oh well.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3527 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4821 times:

Yeah there was a thread about this about a month ago i'd say, but i don't think it was really discussed to death or anything like that.

i really hope AirTran can up against the DL CRJ's out of MLI and BMI. AirTran has done a lot for both airports and doesn't need some near-chapter 11 southern carrier to come in and start screwing shit up for them.



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4718 times:

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 3):
AirTran has done a lot for both airports and doesn't need some near-chapter 11 southern carrier to come in and start screwing shit up for them.

What was Airtran in the later part of '96 after the shutdown? Was it not some near chapter 11 southern carrier coming in and screwing up shit for other Atlanta airlines? I know for a fact it was, why do you think they purchased Airtran and changed the name?  Yeah sure


OttoPylit


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22983 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4612 times:

Quoting STLGph (Thread starter):
The Delta flood into Illinois also serves Champaign to Cincinnati.

Only because it's subsidized

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 3):
i really hope AirTran can up against the DL CRJ's out of MLI and BMI. AirTran has done a lot for both airports

To make these flights work IMHO, DL needs to provide an incentive to people to connect to international flights at ATL instead of ORD (the "logical" choice presently). If they can do that, they can dump some low fare capacity into the market and pick up the ATL and Florida-bound bottom-feeders. Can they do it? I don't know.

Quoting STLGph (Thread starter):
Delta Air Lines has discontinued service from Moline to Cincinnati and replaced service from Moline to Atlanta.

This one's totally logical. Some 50% of people connecting at CVG was connecting on to ATL.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4604 times:

I think AirTran has developed a lot of loyal State Farm Insurance business. AirTran has been the only game in town BMI-ATL for years and the flights are very full. These people have been flying this route for years, have earned status with AirTrans frequent flyer program. It's going to be tough for Delta got get those people back.

AirTran fills a lot of seats between BMI and ATL. Delta service will rely more on connecting service for it's loads.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineIADLHR From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4568 times:

Is it possible that DL really would like to get some connecting passengers to ATL who are going to the warmer climate during the winter from the midwest. The people would otherwise connect at ORD. As a result of this strategy, it is AA and UA passengers they are trying to get.

As they are starting this service in the winter, it really makes me wonder.


User currently offlineCIDflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2298 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4549 times:

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 7):
Is it possible that DL really would like to get some connecting passengers to ATL who are going to the warmer climate during the winter from the midwest. The people would otherwise connect at ORD

that could be a very definite possibilty, DL does serves many Caribbean and Mexican markets, ATL would definitely be a better connection point in winter versus a possible snowy delay prone ORD.


User currently offlineAccess-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1939 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4475 times:

I personally see that the only way Delta will be able to make it in these two markets is if the abandon their plans of using "BarbieJets" and use soemthing the size of a 737-200....
If their plane is to do nothing but come in drive Air Tran out then raise the fares then Delta deserves to lose money on the planned service. Sure airlines have the right to serve wherever they want, Deregulation gurantees that. However, it might not be in the best interest of the communites involved..
As for Delta snagging International traffic to/from Europe thru Atlanta connections, I really dont see it happening too much as This area is UA AA country and both airline adequately serve most of Europe thru ORD. Why would passengers even think of flying all the way down to ATL to fly from Moline or Bloomington to, for example, London or Frankfurt. Seems sort of silly. I really dont belive that there are many loyal Skyteam/Delta FF in this area, like I said, ist mostly UA and AA.
Secondly I do not believe that Delta Connection ever set foot into Springfield, Illinois. They have had the likes of Ozark, Air Illinois, Britt, MVA, Air Wisconsin, Midway Commuter, Midway Connection, Great Lakes, ACA/United Express, Mid Continent as Braniff Express, Midstate Airlines and they might have also had service provided by Air Kentucky dba Allegheny Commuter. They also might have even been served by a small company called Green Hills Aviaiton and Brower Airways, but Never a Delta Connection....I'm 99.9999999999% percent sure of the DL thing.

Access-Air



Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4403 times:

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 9):
As for Delta snagging International traffic to/from Europe thru Atlanta connections, I really dont see it happening too much as This area is UA AA country and both airline adequately serve most of Europe thru ORD.

First, there are several destinations in Europe that neither UA nor AA serves from ORD.
Second, there's not only Europe, but primarily also the Caribben, Latin and South America, with most of the cities available through ATL not being available through ORD.


User currently offlineLastordu From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 367 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4394 times:

Quoting STLGph (Thread starter):
Air Tran serves both airports with its 717

I know off topic but dose Air Tran have any RJ anymore? Thanks and sorry about being off topic.



"Remember, Remember the 5th of November" from V for Vendetta
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4394 times:

Quoting Lastordu (Reply 11):
I know off topic but dose Air Tran have any RJ anymore? Thanks and sorry about being off topic.

No, the agreement with Air Wisky has been dropped many months ago, because FL (and Frontier as well) deemed CRJs to be the absolute worst aircraft to operate LCC operations with. And yet FlyI didn't listen  Wink .


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25235 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4382 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 12):
because FL (and Frontier as well) deemed CRJs to be the absolute worst aircraft to operate LCC operations with.

While that may be true in the case of the 50 seat RJ's, that isn't why Frontier dropped Mesa.

Mesa broke the contract with Frontier by going to United (more flying, more money). But they would have been flying duplicate routes for both United and Frontier.

So Frontier dropped Mesa.

And went to Horizon and the 70 seat RJ's, which are, for some months of the year, stand alone profitable.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineIflyI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4356 times:

Having worked at CIRA (BMI) for a while, I know that AirTran does well there. There are a lot of people I know that will only fly FL from BMI. Add to that the fact that DL currently flies out of PIA and people STILL drive the 45 mins or so to BMI to fly FL. I think that DL is taking on a market that they have no loyalty in, and trying to make it work against FL. The market may not be 100% loyal to FL (AA and UA rule there) but there is more loyalty to FL than DL. Add to that the buisness travelers who would rather fly a 717 than a CRJ and you get more people choosing FL over DL.......Just my  twocents .

Jason in SAV


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9362 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4337 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
Quoting STLGph (Thread starter):
The Delta flood into Illinois also serves Champaign to Cincinnati.

Only because it's subsidized



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
Quoting STLGph (Thread starter):
Delta Air Lines has discontinued service from Moline to Cincinnati and replaced service from Moline to Atlanta.

This one's totally logical. Some 50% of people connecting at CVG was connecting on to ATL.

Interesting stats, I didn't know. Thanks.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 6):
I think AirTran has developed a lot of loyal State Farm Insurance business.

What about Country Companies or Mitsubishi? Or does Mit. tend to take American on up to O'Hare and connect to Asia?

Quoting IflyI (Reply 14):
Add to that the fact that DL currently flies out of PIA

I forgot about that. Thanks.


I'm surprised that AA Eagle hasn't started Bloomington to Dallas/Ft. Worth service.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32776 posts, RR: 72
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4322 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 15):
I'm surprised that AA Eagle hasn't started Bloomington to Dallas/Ft. Worth service.

It's coming.



a.
User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9362 posts, RR: 26
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4278 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
It's coming.

And I'm not a bit surprised. But it seems overdue since Air Tran has been advertising for a while now the first flight out of the day from Bloomington to Atlanta continues right on to Dallas Ft. Worth. I would have thought Eagle would have responded by now.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3527 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4255 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10):
First, there are several destinations in Europe that neither UA nor AA serves from ORD.

yes but what are the odds that there are a lot of people from the quad cities or bloomington and surrounding comms who want to go to moscow, athens, johannesburg (via codeshare), etc...

i doubt there are that many that really need to do so, and the ones that do are already frequent fliers with miles in UA and AA and can do so with a two stop connection (ORD and somewhere in Europe...LHR, FRA, MUC, etc..).



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32776 posts, RR: 72
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4242 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10):

First, there are several destinations in Europe that neither UA nor AA serves from ORD.

The only significant one is Milan.

None the less, I do agree with DAL767400ER. Delta can offer a plethora of connections to Florida, Latin America/Caribbean, and Europe via Atlanta that Cincinnati does not offer. And, unless one is a business traveler, most people don't care that Atlanta adds an hour to their travel time to Europe, especially if the price is right.



a.
User currently offlineAfrikaskyes From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4221 times:

There are a lot of people I know that will only fly FL from BMI. Add to that the fact that DL currently flies out of PIA and people STILL drive the 45 mins or so to BMI to fly FL. I think that DL is taking on a market that they have no loyalty in, and trying to make it work against FL.

It works the same way with PIA, sir. Everyday we see passengers fly in from ATL, rent cars in PIA, and DRIVE to BMI. Most of these frequent flyers fly in on Sundays or Mondays from ATL, and then return from BMI on Thursdays or Fridays. These are predominately contractors for State Farm.

They're may be loyalty with Airtran now, but many people might see beyond the usual RDU, MCO, or CLT markets. You would be surprised how many passengers fly daily from PIA to places like AVL, AGS, CHS, CAE, CHS, etc.....

Again, many of these passengers come from all over Central, IL to fly these routes on a regular basis, including folks going and coming from Bloomington/Normal.


User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6430 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4192 times:

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 4):
What was Airtran in the later part of '96 after the shutdown? Was it not some near chapter 11 southern carrier coming in and screwing up shit for other Atlanta airlines?

I'm sorry, but I don't believe Valujet was ANYWHERE NEAR Ch 11.



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4144 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 21):
I'm sorry, but I don't believe Valujet was ANYWHERE NEAR Ch 11.

Then you better read some more info about it. After their crash in the Everglades, Valujet was in a very bad situation, as passengers lost their faith in the safety of the airline and avoided it. Not to mention that the temporary shutdown by the FAA wasn't helpful either.

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 18):
yes but what are the odds that there are a lot of people from the quad cities or bloomington and surrounding comms who want to go to moscow, athens, johannesburg (via codeshare), etc...

The same odds that a lot of people want to make those connections from cities like PIA or FNT  Wink .


User currently offlineAccess-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1939 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4112 times:

I stand by my earlier cooments..I think Delta if they intend on invading this territory need to use something larger than a BarbieJet to make it work.
I might add that just because Delta goes to the Caribbean and South and Central America thru ATL, So does American which now has in place 2 Round trip flights per day from Moline to DFW.....Personally I think that Delta is worried about the AA coustomer loyalty and the competition in That market.
I think CVG would have worked fine for a connecting city had Delta not scaled back their mainline service so much to have Comair with BarbieJets take almost 98% of the market.
Just because these CRJS ( ERJs and FRJs) are not quite as bad....have the range to do long hauls doesnt mean they should...and by no means are these planes to even be thought of as replacements for DC9-10s or BAC 111s or 737-200s or BAe146s....The DC9s BAC 111s 737-200 and BAe146s are superior to ANY regional jet they can produce....even some of the new E-170/190 stuff...
Anyway, back to my comments....I think that Delta is doing this as a move to stifle competitionor run Air Tran out of thses markets only to rutn around and raise fares to make flying out of our area akin to the outrageous prices they charge to fly thru SLC to Wyo, Montana, Idaho or any other northern US city they serve in the Pac NW. Somehow Delta has to make up for all the $79.00 one way fares to FLL from ORD.....

Access-Air



Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4108 times:

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 23):
.....Personally I think that Delta is worried about the AA customer loyalty and the competition in That market

Yes like American worries about Delta customer loyalty in SAV, or NW worries about United customer loyalty in SAN, or Continental worries about NW loyalty in Winnipeg.


25 Access-Air : Well if Delta sees that AA started flying from MLI to DFW nonstop to connect to their Latin America and Caribbean Destinations, I can see the reasonin
26 Lastordu : Agreed Although I think the E-170/190 cool to watch.
27 727LOVER : While those conditions you describe DID exist, absolutely they did, the company had a stockpile of cash and was not near a ch. 11. Feel free to enlig
28 Lando : Well, having Airtran at BMI is nice, but I live in Peoria, I havent flown on AirTran in awhile, since flying Delta out of PIA is alot more convenient.
29 Travatl : Actually, the closest we ever came to bankruptcy was after the AirTran purchase. We burned through a TON of cash merging the two carriers and complete
30 Padcrasher : I'd say Airtran is marginal in BMI seeing that their load factor was 67.6% for the first 5 Months of 05 having the Southeast almost to themselves. Don
31 Post contains images CIDflyer : Since they (BMI & MLI) seem to not want DL to serve them to ATL, we'll take it here in CID!  [Edited 2005-09-05 04:43:56]
32 MAH4546 : Only 27 destinations out of Peoria register ten or more daily O&D passengers, and none of the 27 are AVL, AGS, CHS, CAE, or any other small Southern
33 Post contains links DocChaos : And for the good of the cause... MLI on Dec. 1, DL will have 4 Daily to ATL. Delta 4535 * 6:15am (MLI) 9:17am (ATL) Delta 4545 * 10:50am (MLI) 1:53pm
34 Afrikaskyes : Only 27 destinations out of Peoria register ten or more daily O&D passengers, and none of the 27 are AVL, AGS, CHS, CAE, or any other small Southern c
35 CIDflyer : have the advance bookings been good for this route? They were to start with only 3 dailies....
36 DAL767400ER : Well, if you deem Ben Edelman's site as accurate, loads are rather bad so far, but then again, December 1st is still almost 3 months away, so loads c
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