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DL Stocks Continue Falling, Analysts Predict Filin  
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12119 posts, RR: 49
Posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4639 times:
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Interesting article......

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/...l-spike-airlines_x.htm?POE=TRVISVA


You can cut the irony with a knife
57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4475 times:

What in that article made it so interesting to where it hasn't already been discussed?

[Edited 2005-09-03 01:58:49]

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4440 times:

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 1):
What in that article made it so interesting to where it hasn't already been discussed?

Maybe because of the article's prediction that Katrina-induced fuel cost increaes and disrupted operations will increase the liklihood or hasten the timing of a filing?


User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3123 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4349 times:

Courtesy: Atlanta Business Chronicle

Delta Stock Dips Below 1 Dollar

http://www.bizjournals.com/industrie...ts/2005/08/29/atlanta_daily39.html


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12119 posts, RR: 49
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4341 times:
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Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 1):
What in that article made it so interesting to where it hasn't already been discussed?

Because now it is not being whispered behind closed doors, and now being said out loud and in front of people.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12119 posts, RR: 49
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4336 times:
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The proverbial fat women is getting ready to sing her heart out.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4334 times:

Sadly, I agree with the general spirit of the article -- Katrina, and the subsequent spike in fuel prices, will probably end up being the straw that broke the airline's back in the case of DL, forcing the airline into bankruptcy within weeks, IMO. In addition, I think that it very well might mean the end for several airlines already on the brink, like TZ. I could be wrong, and I hope fo the sake of said airlines' employees that I am, but only time will tell.

User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4128 times:

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 4):
Because now it is not being whispered behind closed doors, and now being said out loud and in front of people.

What was being said behind closed doors that hasn't been said out loud? Analysts have been predicting a possible filing, fuel prices have been going up, hurricane caused tremendous problems in everyone's flight schedules, and Delta has been on the brink for a while now.

What you are saying was "whispered behind closed doors" has been public for quite a while now, so your behind the power curve or out of the loop. And even if it wasn't out in the open, anyone could figure it out, its not rocket surgery.  Yeah sure


OttoPylit


User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4278 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4062 times:

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 7):
And even if it wasn't out in the open, anyone could figure it out, its not rocket surgery.

Sort of like Song's financial performance??!



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3988 times:

Quoting Richierich (Reply 8):
Sort of like Song's financial performance??!

Haha, you think Delta would let out Song's financial performance so the other LCC's would pick it to pieces? I don't think so. Watch out Richie, you are speaking on terms of which you do not know...again.

You've been caught with your pants down once, don't let it happen again(or should we start once more the "Song's Death Countdown"). LOL


OttoPylit


User currently offlineJFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3546 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3956 times:

I have posted this many times, and I'll direct this time to OttoPylit:

This is a forum! Plain and simple. People come to a forum to discuss things. And yes, as a topic evolves, people discuss things MORE THAN ONCE. (I can't believe I just said that!)

Who would ever expect a possible bankruptcy filing by a respected, major airline to be discussed more than ONE time in ONE thread on an AVIATION forum?

Who would ever expect a NEW THREAD to be started on the possible effect of a major natural disaster that killed thousands of people, devestated a major U.S. city, and drove up Jet Fuel to record levels to be posted on an AVIATION forum?

You, Otto, are absolutely right! None of our members should EVER, EVER, EVER, think of posting another DL possible bankruptcy filing thread EVER AGAIN . . . EVEN, yes EVEN if a major event occurs which could hasten or ebb that process.

Just my two cents!  Smile

PJ


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12119 posts, RR: 49
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3929 times:
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Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 9):
Haha, you think Delta would let out Song's financial performance so the other LCC's would pick it to pieces? I don't think so.

You could also say the same for not releasing it, as it is not delivering like they are always saying. Truth is we have no way of knowing one way or another. Plus or minus, real or fake, truth or lie.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3839 times:

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 10):

I'm picking up your sarcasm there, which is good, since your laying it on pretty thick.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 11):
You could also say the same for not releasing it, as it is not delivering like they are always saying. Truth is we have no way of knowing one way or another.

Let's dissect this a little. You state "it is not delivering as they are always saying and we have no way of knowing." And you know this how? Do you work for Delta? Are you a Delta analyst in Rev Mgmt? Do you have friends who are? Unless you do, YOU are right when you say you have no idea. However, I do work for Delta, I do have friends in those places(and on this very forum) and I do see the numbers on a regular basis. And I do know if it is making money or not. I could very easily give you the CASM on it, not that I will. I know the the break even LF is and could give it you, not that I will. I know whether Song is making money. Being that is started out well and has done nothing but expand, I'll just say entertain you and say that it loses millions a day and will shut down within a week. That should keep you quelled for a while.

By the way, when did this turn into a Song thread? Weren't we talking about the "already run into the ground" thread of Delta filing for bankruptcy that you love so much?

I'm bored, off to find something to spend better time on. I think my shoes need to be relaced..........


User currently offlineN77014 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3811 times:

I tend to agree with the article. MSY was a major market for DL, and the jump in fuel does not help either.

User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3719 times:

They will file. It is painfully obvious. The question comes down to when. Personally I don't think we should discuss it on this forum until that day comes. It seems to make a lot more sense than have a daily discussion on which newspaper editor thinks DL is on the brink. Most of us are smart of enough on this forum to not need to post or read the daily newspaper article as proof DL's financial situation isn't strong and Bankruptcy is imminent.


It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineN839MH From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 375 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3701 times:

Well, talking to some crew members along with a good friend from
Headquaters on the DFW-HNL flight....oh how nice it is to have the
DFW to HNL non-stop flights back...and two of them a day at that....
anyhow...sounds like Delta will file Bankruptcy sometime this coming week.

Oh well...what can anyone do about it....there are definitely worse things
in life than if Delta files Bankruptcy!!!



Solodude!
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3580 times:

Some folks are saying that they'll wait until after the sale of EV to OO is done to file, which should be sometime in the next few weeks. I guess they can't find someone to take OH off of their hand yet. The aftermath of Katrina and the fuel issues are just another bump in the rocky road to Chapter 11 for Delta.

As for Song, since it is considered part of DL Mainline for financial and regulatory reasons, the financials on it don't get reported separately (DL Connection's financials aren't reported separately either. The first full quarter that EV is under the OO corporate umbrella could potentially give us a look into how important EV and OH have been to DL's bottom line). A lot of us here thought that when Grinstein became CEO that Song was going to be history ASAP. I think Song will be history as part of the CH. 11 reorganization, but some of the things learned through it that haven't already made it into the mainline product will be rolled out through much of the mainline product.


User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3452 times:

I have heard the only hold up on filing at this point is waiting for the sale of ASA to be complete. CMR will not be sold, will be chopped up in BK, as will the whole CVG hub.

User currently offlineNonRevKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3442 times:

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 17):
CMR will not be sold, will be chopped up in BK, as will the whole CVG hub.

Um, no.

B


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3375 times:

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 17):
CMR will not be sold, will be chopped up in BK, as will the whole CVG hub.

If you actually believe what you just wrote, I have a bridge in Hamburg to sell to you.


User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3356 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 19):
If you actually believe what you just wrote, I have a bridge in Hamburg to sell to you.

Ok, lets talk again in a year and see. I think you will find I am right on track.

If Delta were to stay an independent carrier, CVG would survive. However, Delta cannot and will not stay independent. We will merge with someone. CVG will be eliminated in pretty much any merger scenario. Along with that, the need for CMR is pretty much gone.

[Edited 2005-09-05 16:52:07]

User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3328 times:

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 20):
Ok, lets talk again in a year and see.

I'll mark it in my calendar  Wink .

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 20):
I think you will find I am right on track.

Remains to be seen.

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 20):
However, Delta cannot and will not stay independent. We will merge with someone.

That also still remains to be seen. While I do not doubt that DL will be involved in a merger/takeover within the next ten years, I doubt it will happen within the next 12 months.


User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3300 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 21):
While I do not doubt that DL will be involved in a merger/takeover within the next ten years, I doubt it will happen within the next 12 months.

next twelve months, maybe not. But they will have to start setting up for a merger in the next twelve months. Once a merger is announced, too late to start closing a hub or downsizing. Things will start to move fast once we are in BK.


User currently offlineCIDflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2328 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3255 times:

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 20):
CVG will be eliminated in pretty much any merger scenario

there are a handful of cities with service only through the CVG hub. Would they keep DL flights and route them through ATL? Are the recent announcements of moving CVG service from LAN and MLI to ATL a sign of things to come? Its hard to think of a hub with 600 flights being shuttered with nothing nearby to take the capacity. At least when AA downsized STL they still had ORD close by to absorb some of those flights that were cut at STL.


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4927 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3223 times:
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Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 20):
CVG will be eliminated in pretty much any merger scenario

Maybe except in a DL-CO scenario as CVG could replace CLE given that CLE is the smallest of CO's hubs.


25 Bucky707 : I asked that question and was told a DL-CO merger would probably keep CLE instead of CVG. Evidently, Cleveland has a lot more O+D traffic than CVG, w
26 OttoPylit : At one time, I used to believe what you said. But now, within 3 posts, I have come to doubt it ever again. A quick couple of questions. 1. CVG-Why gi
27 CIDflyer : Does CLE really have the capacity and room to take on a 600 flight per day hub? If O & D was so good there, why is the CO hub there so small? It woul
28 FlyPNS1 : I hear this about practically every part of the DL system from DL employees. I've heard that Atlanta is profitable, International is profitable, Song
29 Stirling : Could Comair survive as a stand alone carrier?
30 CincyBaseFA : I want to see comair as a stand alone carrier. I've only been with the company for 2 1/2 years and I don't want to lose my job. but I haven't heard mu
31 Squid : I doubt Comair could make it on their own, Flyi should be a powerful lesson. I think DL would make a good merge with Continental. And I don't think CV
32 DeltaA380 : In my opinion, I think closing CVG, regrettably, as I think it's our nicest hub by far, would be a possibility. Incidentally, next time you are in CVG
33 Bucky707 : Two thoughts. First, in bankruptcy Delta can get its own pilots to fly an E-190 for pretty much whatever pay they want, so why fly them at CMR? Secon
34 FlyPNS1 : Because regional pilots are likely to fly the planes cheaper in the long run. Sure the DL mainline guys might fly them cheaply for a few years, then
35 Bucky707 : You think the CMR pilots would not want massive raises? Yes, I do. Think about it. Going to 100 seaters at CMR and getting rid of the 88s and smaller
36 FlyPNS1 : Compared to the DL pilots, no. Also factor in other costs (benefits, work rules,etc) and the DL mainline guys are going to cost more in the long run.
37 DeltaMIA : ATL and CVG are not profitable as a whole; parts though are extremely profitable. ATL for the first time within the last two years has dropped to red
38 Bucky707 : what can I say, you're wrong. Our contract as it stands today is not much more costly than CMRs. Add in another round of cuts and loosing the pension
39 OttoPylit : First of all, take a look at DeltaMIA's post. The one thing killing Delta right now is fuel, plain and simple. Seat costs are down to some of the low
40 STT757 : Because CLE is CO's third largest hub while CVG is DL's Second largest hub, after ATL DL's best hub is CVG. After IAH CO's best hub is EWR, big diffe
41 Lono : This is true.... Along with a outdated business plan... I understand you are a DL employee..... As such what do you think the fix is...???? I used to
42 Post contains images Lightsaber : I think she's on stage about ready to fling the arms wide for the finale'. DL is amazing in their loss rates. Well said. Asked and answered. 50 seate
43 DeltaMIA : That's a senseless comparison. CLE and CVG are essentially the same type of hub. It doesn't matter if CO happens to be larger at EWR and IAH. CLE and
44 Squid : Here is the deal at Delta in my opinion. Many things are working against them tremendously, and it's not just fuel. Delta has a terrible fleet mix and
45 Bucky707 : interesting how you think an E-190 is a regional aircraft and should be flown by regional crews, yet JetBlue is not flying these with regional crews.
46 STT757 : They are not the same hubs, when concentrating assets and investments CVG is second only to ATL for DL while CLE is behind IAH and EWR. DL has put so
47 STT757 : Except for Guam where they have 737-800s and 767-400s operating to Fukuoka, Niigta, Sapporo, Sendai, Nagoya, Tokyo, Okyama, Hiroshima, Saipan, Taipei
48 Stirling : Well it looks like the CVG hub is going to get smaller. 26% reduction in capacity. Ouch! Is Delta really on it's way to being an ATL-Only carrier? CVG
49 Padcrasher : Stirling you really need to get read up on industry news before spouting some nonsense straight out of the 1990's. CVG simplified fares long ago and
50 Candid76 : I wonder what trade in Bombardier might give if they swap all those CRJs for 100-130 seat C-series? Just a thought.
51 DeltaMIA : You didn't really read my post you just took that line and ran with it. They serve the same region and they serve the same purpose. Airlines don't ro
52 Luv2fly : WOW CLE is no longer a hub, must of missed that change!
53 OttoPylit : I think the outcome will be Delta going into bankruptcy. I have said that for a while now. I wish there was some way around it, but fuel isn't gettin
54 Lono : Otto........DL has a history of waiting too long to react... I too think they should have filed already.... I also think that DL again waited too lon
55 OttoPylit : From the Delta News Network: An advertisement in the Cincinnati Enquirer on Thursday, following the announcement of changes to the winter schedule, re
56 Milesrich : To call the person who said that Delta's CVG problems stem from reliance on the COMAIR RJ's puffery is ridiculous. Delta's problems in CVG are similar
57 Comorin : I would have to agree with you based on the financials, but do not have the guts to say it out loud on A.Net! Even with fuel fully hedged, Delta woul
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