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Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?  
User currently offlineTrolley Dolley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6980 times:

To all QF a.nutters, could you make a suggestion to the right places about this idea. Given that QF has quite a few 744's sitting around for many hours at LAX, could some of them be put to use to help New Orleans evacuate? I am sure they'd have enough time to mount a few shuttle flights to a nearby safe port.

Yes there are plenty of things to sort through, but it seems like a good chance to utilise these aviation resources that have been used before in times of national crisis. (My cousin was on a QF747-200 when over 20,000 were air evacuated from Darwin in 1974 after Cyclone Tracey.)

I also remember how helpful QF was when I had the formidible task of getting 40 New Zealand based firefighters to Australia, in less than 12 hours, to help with the Canberra bushfires. It seems like an airline with the heart and experience to mount such an operation.

My heart and thoughts go out to all affected by Hurricane Katrina.

[Edited 2005-09-03 09:35:53]

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6928 times:

That would be awsome. It would move a lot of people quickly and be a great show of international friendship but the only problem is that the FAA, TSA and FEMA are limiting refugee flights to 737s and A320 sized aircraft into MSY.

If they could bring in larger planes, I would bet that any international carrier with a 767/A330 or larger just sitting around in the states would offer their services.

Maybe the rules will change when the airport is in a little better condition.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineTrolley Dolley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6878 times:

Oh darn! I suspected there would be a problem with this idea... Thanks for the update tho.

User currently offlinePropilotjW From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 588 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6574 times:

I am sorry but i agree with 6thfreedom on this one. US Airlines have MORE than enough "resources" to help out our own people. Having Qantas donate a plane is a bit of an crazy idea because.... who will be flying this aircraft while the crews are on a legal layover? Nice thought but the USA can help out on this one.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21419 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6492 times:

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 3):
Maybe they should bring back some troops and equipment from Iraq so they can look after their own.

We have more than enough equipment and men at home. Grow up and get off it.

We just have laws in the US preventing military deployment within the country, even in times of disaster. It would take an act of congress to allow for the Army or Air Force to take over the situation. This is why we have the National Guard. And the Guard is doing their job. They are also being called in from other states. There are more than enough.

For better or worse, the US is a republic of states with aversions to federalism by design. This can lead to temporary bottlenecks, between the time the states finally request federal aid and that aid arrives. Aid wasn't even requested until late Monday in New Orleans, and it was authorized on Tuesday, IIRC.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32212 posts, RR: 72
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6482 times:

A foreign airline cannot operate a domestic flight that carriers local traffic, passenger or cargo, even if it is a relief flight. However, Qantas could apply with DOT for an emergency exemption, which is awarded within 24 hours, and would likely get it.


a.
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2889 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6442 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
A foreign airline cannot operate a domestic flight that carriers local traffic, passenger or cargo, even if it is a relief flight. However, Qantas could apply with DOT for an emergency exemption, which is awarded within 24 hours, and would likely get it.

Isn't AC offering relief flights to Texas? If so they obviously got this exemption, correct?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32212 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6433 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 7):
Isn't AC offering relief flights to Texas? If so they obviously got this exemption, correct?

It was from Toronto:
http://prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/storie...story/09-02-2005/0004099400&EDATE=



a.
User currently offlineJjbiv From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1226 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6384 times:

I believe that the international carrier restrictions only apply to revenue flights, which these obviously would not be.

joe


User currently offlineNWOrientDC10 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1404 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6038 times:
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Quoting Trolley Dolley (Reply 2):
Oh darn! I suspected there would be a problem with this idea...

Hey! Not a problem. Your concern is greatly appreciated  Smile

Quoting PropilotjW (Reply 3):
I am sorry but i agree with 6thfreedom on this one. US Airlines have MORE than enough "resources" to help out our own people. Having Qantas donate a plane is a bit of an crazy idea because.... who will be flying this aircraft while the crews are on a legal layover? Nice thought but the USA can help out on this one.

Who cares? Help is help no matter the source.

Good day to all;

Russell



Things aren't always as they seem
User currently offlineA319114 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 541 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5793 times:

Quoting NWOrientDC10 (Reply 9):

Who cares? Help is help no matter the source.

I agree. Sometimes I find the American blunt refusal of well intented help quite arrogant. If the United States could take care of the disaster themselves so well, than why wasn't the entire of New Orleans evacuated before Katrina hit the the town.  grumpy 



Destruction leads to a very rough road but it also breeds creation
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5714 times:

Quoting A319114 (Reply 10):

I agree. Sometimes I find the American blunt refusal of well intented help quite arrogant. If the United States could take care of the disaster themselves so well, than why wasn't the entire of New Orleans evacuated before Katrina hit the the town.

Firstly, help is now being offered and is likely to be accepted in some form.

Over 80% of the population in the New Orleans area was evacuated....the remaining population was either unwilling or unable to evacuate for many reasons as has been well reported by the media. The disaster in NewOrleans is a two fold - first the affects of the strong hurricane compounded by the failure of the levy system which flooded the city. The situation was and is far more complex than your statement.


User currently offlineSchipholjfk From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5049 times:

Quoting A319114 (Reply 10):
I agree. Sometimes I find the American blunt refusal of well intented help quite arrogant. If the United States could take care of the disaster themselves so well, than why wasn't the entire of New Orleans evacuated before Katrina hit the the town.

This is a really stupid comment. Disasters are exactly what they are - disasters. It's man against nature. Everyone was indeed asked to evacuate and some were not able to or chose to remain in New Orleans. No one is perfect and neither is the U.S. That does not mean there are not enough resources in the country to help out in relief efforts. You don't think there are enough military or commercial aircrafts in this country to evacuate all the people? Give me a break. Mistakes have been made and there is no doubt about it. And I hope we learn from this disaster. But for you to show your anti-American feeling when a tragedy has taken place is childish. I bet in your eyes the United States could do no right... and everything that is wrong in the world is is our fault. Give me a break. Unless you have anything constructive to say that will make the stituation in New Orleans better, keep your anti-American sentiments to yourself at this moment when innocent people are needlessly suffering.

[Edited 2005-09-04 03:28:42]


The fun of flying... love it !!!
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3971 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5024 times:

Quoting Trolley Dolley (Thread starter):
I am sure they'd have enough time to mount a few shuttle flights to a nearby safe port



Quoting Centrair (Reply 1):
the only problem is that the FAA, TSA and FEMA are limiting refugee flights to 737s and A320 sized aircraft into MSY.

I thought Trolley clearly mentioned a "nearby safe port" - not MSY, not GPT, but another airport in the region that can easily handle a widebody.

I think the time is past for evacuations on any large scale, but in the coming months we will need transport of materials and laborers to repair and rebuild the city. Then we may see more carriers participating in this sort of thing.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4956 times:

Quoting A319114 (Reply 10):
I agree. Sometimes I find the American blunt refusal of well intented help quite arrogant. If the United States could take care of the disaster themselves so well, than why wasn't the entire of New Orleans evacuated before Katrina hit the the town

Because the Mayor didn't have a plan for, or the means to carry out, a mandatory forced evacuation.

Part of the problem is that most of the people didn't take the warnings to leave seriously. I lived in New Orleans for 4 years, and experienced 3 approaching hurricanes. Every one of them petered out as soon as it hit the Mississippi river passes, so damage was always minimal.


User currently offlineVHXLR8 From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 500 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4632 times:

Quoting PropilotjW (Reply 3):
who will be flying this aircraft while the crews are on a legal layover?

Most likely it would be crews who volunteer to work the relief flights in their own time; as was what happened with the evacuation flights after the tsunami.


User currently offlineSkywatch From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 923 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4281 times:

Quoting Centrair (Reply 1):
That would be awsome. It would move a lot of people quickly and be a great show of international friendship but the only problem is that the FAA, TSA and FEMA are limiting refugee flights to 737s and A320 sized aircraft into MSY.

MSY is teeming with DC-10's, C130's, and DC-8's at the moment. Are those just used for aid shipment?

---Skywatch



------Forever Watchin' The Sky------
User currently offlineGoomba From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 309 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4060 times:

Ugh!!!

Not that this has anything to do with aviation....

The majority of the 20% of the population that didn't leave New Orleans were too poor to leave (didn't have the means to do so).

Please keep in mind that the choice not to rebuild or insure integrity of the levee system in New Orleans was not as much a federal issue as it was a state and local issue.

The many decision makers who have held office there for a number of years knew that this could happen at any time, yet ignored the experts.

A319114's statement really bothered me. Sorry to rant folks...

A319 - Your country lost 6000 souls to a flood on the North Sea 40 years ago before you rebuilt your levee system. Why weren't those people evacuated then?

Not comparing an eye for an eye, but I really didn't appreciate your comment.


User currently offlineBeyauty From Lebanon, joined Aug 2005, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4038 times:

Quoting Schipholjfk (Reply 12):
No one is perfect and neither is the U.S.

"Mistakes have been made and there is no doubt about it"

No one is saying the US is perfect, however, you cannot reduce the collossal incompetence, and complete breakdown of the system when it came down to the response that was needed to deal with the situation, to a simple statment that "mistakes have been made". There is absolutely no reason why 15000+ people were not "noticed" for a full 4 days after the disaster hit, and that an NBC reporter was there within 2 days with his SUV, while the National Guard was claiming that they could not reach them. To me, that borders on criminal neglect. Somebody better take responsbility for the thousands who died, not as a result of the hurricane, but as a result of sheer incompetence and neglect. Why didn't the national guard send in their C130's and other aircraft the day after this occured to pull the thousands of people out? Was there no contingency plan in place to do so? I find that very hard to believe. You would expect that a third world country would not have such plans, but the US? That's just unbelievable.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 14):
Because the Mayor didn't have a plan for, or the
means to carry out, a mandatory forced evacuation

Did FEMA have a plan? If not, why not. They certainly have the means to carry out such a massive evacuation using whatever aircraft and ground transportation, especially because 1 year ago, they completed a simulation and they knew exactly what would happen to that city.

I'm glad to hear that commercial aircraft are currently being used to evacuate all those destitute people, and glad to hear that the government is footing the bill, however, it is tragic to say that it is too little and too late for hundreds and perhaps of thousands of people.


User currently offlineCORULEZ05 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3990 times:

They could help out but if they really wanted 747's, they would call up United and/or Northwest.

Besides, at this time they are only allowing narrowbodies which makes absolutely no sense....widebodies=more seats=getting people out of there quicker.


User currently offlineGoomba From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 309 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3910 times:

beyauty

The issue was critical mass. There were more than 15,000 evacuees in New Orleans. Over 70,000 people rode out the storm.

We had to wait for thousands of troops (guard and military) to come together at once to march into New Orleans.

1. Had we launched smaller groups into the city with supplies they ran the great risk of being overwhelmed by the people (many armed might I add). If that was the case, would all of the people received rations? No!!

2. Smaller groups carry smaller number of rations in the first place. Would you want to be the one that carries in 5000 MRE's for 25,000 people and have to tell them that there wasn't enough to go around?

Oh yeah - hundreds of murders and rapes have taken place over the past few days while people are trying to help. Not exactly the ideal place to try to bring food and water into. I needent remind you that doctors and nurses were being shot at while trying to transport the critically ill from downtown hospitals. Imagine if these folks were in uniform?

Believe me it's really sad - I wish it were different.

But I believe that those involved in getting supplies to the people of New Orleans did it in the only way in which they could. They insured that more people received supplies at once and insured the safety and integrity of the operation. Kudos and accolades to all of you.

God Bless all the suffering people tonight.


User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3971 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3694 times:

Finger pointing eh? Need I remind everyone that FEMA (which has been around a long time) is now under control of the Homeland Security department. Now, not to throw my personal opinions around, but a CNN poll shows that 89% of those polled believe that just as what happened in New Orleans and the Gulf coast area, the Department of Homeland Security would not be able to cope with a major terrorist attack.

How about they put the Thousands Standing Around to work draining the city and retreiving the dead? I don't think MSY will be needing their services for a while.


User currently offlineTG990 From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3203 times:

What US airlines are actually helping???? There must be someone?

I feel the US made more of a rush for international conflict problems compared with their own citizens in New Orleans.


User currently offlineLPLAspotter From Portugal, joined Jan 2005, 682 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3190 times:

Quoting NWOrientDC10 (Reply 9):
Who cares? Help is help no matter the source

EXACTLY

Quoting Centrair (Reply 1):
the FAA, TSA and FEMA are limiting refugee flights to 737s and A320 sized aircraft into MSY

.
Any reason why? I've even seen an AN-125 at MSY.



Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
User currently offlineShenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1706 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3171 times:

Maybe use a couple of those the Qantas 747s to fill the hole in the levy? Good idea? LOL Cheers

25 Post contains images Iwok : I am sure that FEMA is seriously considering your idea, and that a blue ribbon Congressional panel has been convened to consider the key logistical q
26 Pictues : If you read the article properly you would see they will be shuttleing pax from MSY to San Antonio AFB.
27 Kanebear : On the QF744... bad idea as it would need to be thoroughly cleaned afterwards. Remember, many of these folks have been waist-neck deep in sewage for d
28 HPRamper : That doesn't make any sense. So New Orleans should have been able to take care of itself? What about 9/11 - I seem to recall the federal government he
29 Post contains links Kanebear : Until assistance got there, yes. The federal government DID assist in NYC after 9/11. Recall, though, that the primary people on the scene in the fir
30 A319114 : My apologies if I offended anyone with my post, unfortunaly some people misunderstood my words (which of course can be my own fault). I didn't mean t
31 Halls120 : FEMA and the federal government are NOT responsible for pre-event and initial response planning. In fact, the federal government warns state and loca
32 HPRamper : Reports are just now coming out about the process of events that brought about this disaster. Building levees is not the job of the City of New Orlea
33 Sydscott : The Australian Government should have arranged for one of the Qantas 744's sitting at LAX to go in and evacuate the 50 or so Australians that were tr
34 Kanebear : I can see that headline... Australia invades New Orleans. No, seriously; as for the Aussies stuck in NO... you couldn'tve taken a large enough force
35 Dfwagt : I don't think that MSY can handle at 744 at this time. AA is running 4 MD-80s in and out of there a day right now. I work at AA, and I am headed to he
36 Sydscott : Which is why you don't take them all at once. We had our 2 principle commercial TV netorks doing stories about how their journalists were arranging f
37 6thfreedom : Obviously I was a little too direct in my earlier post, hence the deletion. My point is that as the wealthiest country in the world, the USA should b
38 Kanebear : IMO the journalist was the key. They never would've gotten in and/or would've had their vehicle commandeered. Good show on not getting brutalized by
39 Qantasffcl : Qantas is always there working behind the scenes, always without a shove from the politically correct, conservative AUS government. They send dedicate
40 Post contains links MAH4546 : No, it applies to all flights. revenue or not. Though the US DOT has granted an exemption to foregin airlines to operate domestic relief flights: htt
41 Post contains images NWOrientDC10 : No apologies necessary, 6thfreedom... I agree wholeheartedly. Disasters tend to bring out the best (and unfortunately, the worst ) in us here in the
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