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UA Cuts IAD-SJO, SFO-CDG; Suspends ORD-AMS  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32778 posts, RR: 72
Posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7361 times:

United Airlines is ending service between Washington Dulles and San Jose, Costa Rica, launched not very long ago. Tomorrow (5 September) is the last flight. Launched as a daily 757-200 flight, they stupidly re-timed to leave Dulles in the morning and not connect to the European flights, which had a huge affect on the flight's feed.

Non-stop service between San Francsico and Paris ends on 28 October 2005. This has been one of United's worst performing trans-Atlantic routes, so it is no surprise they are ending the service.

Also, service between O'Hare and Amsterdam is being suspended for the winter on 28 October. It resumes 2 April 2005.


a.
38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1726 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7343 times:

I think you meant to say April 06

User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25356 posts, RR: 49
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7313 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Non-stop service between San Francsico and Paris ends on 28 October 2005. This has been one of United's worst performing trans-Atlantic routes, so it is no surprise they are ending the service

One of the best performing loadwise, but yields were weak.

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
United Airlines is ending service between Washington Dulles and San Jose, Costa Rica, launched not very long ago. Tomorrow (5 September) is the last flight. Launched as a daily 757-200 flight, they stupidly re-timed to leave Dulles in the morning and not connect to the European flights, which had a huge affect on the flight's feed.

Loads were marginal before the retiming and equipment change to A320. The retiming to a morning departure was meant to be more attractive to US flyers whom would not loose an entire day by arriving San Jose at 10pm at night. Flight did not have many European connections anyways.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7278 times:

Mark

Do you know off the top of your head What are the East Coast gateways and number of flights to SJO.

I would suppose it's CO/US/DL and AA. Does US fly from more than one point?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32778 posts, RR: 72
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7255 times:

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 3):

Do you know off the top of your head What are the East Coast gateways and number of flights to SJO.

I would suppose it's CO/US/DL and AA. Does US fly from more than one point?

During peak travel season:

AA - 5x daily MIA-SJO
DL - 2x daily ATL-SJO
US - 1x daily CLT-SJO; 1x daily FLL-SJO; Saturday PHL-SJO
CO - 2x daily EWR-SJO
LR - 2x daily MIA-SJO; 6w JFK-SJO
MP - 1x daily MIA-SJO; 2w MCO-SJO



a.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7116 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Non-stop service between San Francsico and Paris ends on 28 October 2005. This has been one of United's worst performing trans-Atlantic routes, so it is no surprise they are ending the service.



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
One of the best performing loadwise, but yields were weak.

interesting...considering they aren't even flying a large plane (763), and besides the one AF flight (AF083), there aren't any nonstop flights to CDG.........looks like AF have this all to themselves for now...!!


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User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32778 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7110 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 5):
interesting...considering they aren't even flying a large plane (763),

Loads are based on a percentage, not a total number of seats.



a.
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25356 posts, RR: 49
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7058 times:

The SFO-CDG flight is one which UA has been tinkering with for the last decade. The flight for a few years in the 90s moved down and became a LAX-CDG service before moving back to SFO. It also operated with 777s for several years from SFO.

Loads were always good, for example in 2000 year around average load factor was 79% and in 2004 was 83%, the highest of UA's Paris services.

Unfortunately the strong loads did not equate to high yields particularly in premium classes. United/Star Alliance with a weak position in France was primarily forced to rely on O&D traffic between the West Coast and Paris, unlike its other Europe services to London and Frankfurt from California which have the benefit of feed on both ends.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7053 times:

Nice that Dulles IAD) is United's main hub for Europe. It's got Brussels, Zurich and Amsterdam. Until recently it was United's sole hub flight to Munich. I'd love to see Milan, Madrid and Lisbon in the future. To South America, it has United's sole flight to Buenos Aires (EZE)

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6991 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):

Loads are based on a percentage, not a total number of seats.

true, but with so few seats available on that sector, I would assume yields wouldn't have been all that bad......

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 7):
United/Star Alliance with a weak position in France

there are more than enough Star Alliance partners flying through CDG..it shouldn't have been a problem for UA to codeshare with various partners..



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32778 posts, RR: 72
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6981 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 9):

true, but with so few seats available on that sector, I would assume yields wouldn't have been all that bad......

Paris-California in general is a weak yielding market. In the past five years, we have seen Amerian Airlines (LAX-CDG and SJC-CDG), Corsair (OAK-ORY), United Airlines (LAX-CDG and SFO-CDG), and AOM (LAX-ORY) exit the market.



a.
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25356 posts, RR: 49
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6939 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 9):
there are more than enough Star Alliance partners flying through CDG..it shouldn't have been a problem for UA to codeshare with various partners..

To where? Star lacks a French partner. Thus not much can be reached via Paris. Instead LHR and FRA/MUC offer many better onward opportunities.

Also the terminal situation in Paris has been frustrating Star for several years. For a long time they have been working on getting all the members under one roof in T-1.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineWindowSeat From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1312 posts, RR: 57
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6833 times:

Even Air France with the only competition from UA, step down from a 744 in summer to a 343 in autumn and then a 332 in winter. Loads must really suck, not sure about yields.

cheers



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User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6812 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
In the past five years, we have seen Amerian Airlines (LAX-CDG and SJC-CDG), Corsair (OAK-ORY), United Airlines (LAX-CDG and SFO-CDG), and AOM (LAX-ORY) exit the market.

If I recall correctly, didn't American have to be dragged kicking and screaming into leaving Orly for DeGaulle? How did Corsair and AOM still operate trans-atlantic flights from Orly then?



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User currently onlinePA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2006 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6800 times:
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Quoting WindowSeat (Reply 12):
Loads must really suck, not sure about yields.

That's just the problem.. The loads are just fine - it's the yield that sucks. I've been on UA's 777 SFO-CDG flight quite a few times in the off season, and it was always packed to capacity.

AF is following their formula for financial success in downgrading the aircraft. Reducing the available seats forces the yield up. Sucks if you're looking for a deal, but it does improve route profitability.



It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32778 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6775 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 13):

If I recall correctly, didn't American have to be dragged kicking and screaming into leaving Orly for DeGaulle? How did Corsair and AOM still operate trans-atlantic flights from Orly then?

Yes, that is true. AA didn't want to leave Orly. French airlines still operate a good amount of leisure-oriented long haul routes from Orly. Air France has a long haul fleet of 747s based in Orly that operate routes to former and current French territories, including Cayenne and Reunion.



a.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6691 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 11):
To where? Star lacks a French partner. Thus not much can be reached via Paris. Instead LHR and FRA/MUC offer many better onward opportunities.

good call.my bad..i was thinking of FRA for some reason  crazy 

CDG doesn't have good Star Alliance connections...I would see only CDG-LHR or CDG-FRA as an alternative.....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineAOMlover From France, joined Jul 2001, 1305 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6675 times:

SHUPirate1, AOM and Corsair's American destinations were stopovers for flights to Tahiti. Indeed, AOM operated ORY-LAX-PPT using DC10s then A340s, while Corsair flew ORY-OAK-PPT using 742s, 743s, 747SPs.

User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6762 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6647 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
CO - 2x daily EWR-SJO

Actually, 2 daily IAH-SJO and 1 daily EWR-SJO, I believe.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
US - 1x daily CLT-SJO; 1x daily FLL-SJO; Saturday PHL-SJO

If memory serves, FLL-SJO has been cut or soon will be.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6629 times:

Also, the 5 month suspension of ORD-AMS only leaves KL with the monopoly for the route.......not that its a huge route, but I do see KL's 747 combi there quite often...I wonder if they will change that to some other plane also....

cough, cough...I see this route perfect for a brand spanking new KL 787  bigthumbsup 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6625 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Also, service between O'Hare and Amsterdam is being suspended for the winter on 28 October. It resumes 2 April 2005.

IMO if NWA/KLM increases frequencies (BBJ?) and NWA puts on an aggresive Worldperks action, it could become difficult for UA to return next year.


User currently offlineARGinLON From Vatican City, joined Jun 2005, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6601 times:

I believe U.S. carries are always very far from AF in terms of yields due to local traffic preference for the flag carrier.

In addition to this, the competition for this route was too hard for UA and getting high yield passengers was tough due to several factors: Inferior product/aircraft, lack of Star Alliance partner at CDG, etc.

And yes, T1 at CDG is a nightmare.


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6444 times:

Will UA fly to CDG still after this cut? If yes from where?

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11607 posts, RR: 61
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6433 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 22):
Will UA fly to CDG still after this cut? If yes from where?

Yes. They'll still have their daily 777 to IAD and daily 767 to ORD.


User currently offlineSQ2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6399 times:

is there PTV on UA's 763's economy class? the one that's doing the SFO-CDG route. the load for the summer is between 80-90%


SQ always my 1st choice
25 Bicoastal : In addition to flying directly to CDG from Dulles and Chicago, United flyers can fly to many cities in France via its Star Alliance partners Luftansa,
26 Halls120 : Don't know about that route, but I fly 763's IAD-LHR all the time, and we've had PTV's on every flight.
27 StevenUhl777 : Highly unlikely due to the new alliance with TAP Air Portugal. I'm glad to see United making decisions like suspending/cutting routes that are margin
28 AS739X : Windowseat, actually AF goes from summer 747-400 to 777's in the transition schedules and A340 during the winter. We only saw the A330 2 times last ye
29 JoFMO : Why should UA stop a route that is marginally profitable? As long as the route makes some money. Opening a new route is always risky. There is no guar
30 Daron4000 : First of all, all seats on 3-class 767 and 777's have PTV's. I think that at least the two European routes which were both 767 routes were changed bec
31 ARGinLON : I am aware of the huge traffic around xmas time but... Did UA actually use a 744 to some destinations? Where/When?
32 Laxintl : UA did run the B744 to Buenos Aires around New Years. If I remember correctly it was from ORD. With having the a large B744 fleet, United has been ab
33 ORD2PHL : Good to see UA being productive about unprofitable routes. I wonder where this equipment, (the 763 from the SFO-CDG) will go. ORD2PHL
34 MAH4546 : ORD-EZE.
35 RyanAFAMSP : Daron4000- As far as two class 777s and 767-300s go: The two class configuration on the 777s has nothing to do with weight restrictions. Ships N210UA-
36 LFutia : I've learned after talking to many Dutchmen on Airliners.net... ive learned that KL611/612 (ORD-AMS/AMS-ORD) is an important destination for KL. I fo
37 LACA773 : With all this talk about alliances perhaps UA will start an FRA service out of SFO instead? This is just a thought. Any ideas since they are very very
38 Laxintl : United allready flies a daily B747-400 SFO-FRA in addition to a Lufthansa B744.
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