SonOfACaptain From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1747 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (9 years 12 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4777 times:
Personally, I think this is a useless fact. You really can't compare passenger numbers with FR and BA, due to their different styles. BA is an international airline, meaning that a good amount of their flights are long-haul. Who do you think is going to carry more, a 777 that carries 250 people one day one flight, or a 737 that carriers 130 people fives times throughout the day? This is similar to what has happened in the US with WN. The facts are deceiving. I am not trying to take anything away from FR, but if you are a FR fan, don't get a big head, while if you are a BA fan, don't get down.
Ncfc99 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 875 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 12 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4716 times:
Quoting Egmcman (Reply 5): I wasn't disputing the accuarcy it just isn't comparing like for like as BA have a massive global route network and FR has a short haul route network.
Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 3): You really can't compare passenger numbers with FR and BA, due to their different styles. BA is an international airline, meaning that a good amount of their flights are long-haul. Who do you think is going to carry more, a 777 that carries 250 people one day one flight, or a 737 that carriers 130 people fives times throughout the day.
I do not disagree with either of the above posts.
To my mind, spin is something that is not quite the truth, or twisted truths to suit your own point.
How? A fact is what it is. Any "deception" is in the mind of the interpreter.
This fact is extremely interesting. When the statement was made, many people said it was unthinkable and laughed at Mr. O'Leary.
Well, it isn't "unthinkable" anymore, and I hope they're not laughing.
To ignore it or to claim that it is irrelevant, or "marketing spin", is to underestimate or discount what is going on, just as the US legacy carriers underestimated the power of the LCC movement in the US.
I mean, gosh, if people at US Airways had believed Mr. Siegel, instead of fighting him, things might have been different - although it was probably too late by then.
I think you can bet that BA isn't ignoring it. Or Virgin Atlantic, for that matter.
AIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2580 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 12 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4672 times:
Well how many bases has Ryanair? A lot and many of them are outside of the UK. So the comparaison is not accurate. Well I don't care if Ryanair carries more passengers than BA. Is that going to turn me away from BA, surely not...
Ncfc99 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 875 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 12 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4640 times:
Quoting Mariner (Reply 10): It is essential, in business, to be aware of what the competition is doing
They are probably well aware of this situation, but it has very little impact on the VS business(at the moment).
Quoting Mariner (Reply 10): Virgin has an arrangement with British Midland and there are many rumors that Virgin is considering buying British Midland.
You learn something new everytime you log on to A.net.
Does anyone one think that in the future, there will be airlines for longhaul and other airlines for shorthaul (e.g.. VS and FR), with full service shorthaul airlines a very small percentage of the industry?
Gilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3125 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (9 years 12 months 2 days ago) and read 4523 times:
Michael O'Leary may have shit himself in the foot, in the press annoucement he made today he also said (as quoted from Ryanair website):
"...Ryanair's passenger volumes are growing rapidly thanks to new destinations, lowest ever fares, industry leading punctuality and customer service and Ryanair's guarantee of NO fuel surcharges, not today, not tomorrow, not ever. BA keep turning passengers away with fuel surcharge after fuel surcharge, high fares, poor punctuality, flight cancellations and no catering. At least on Ryanair, customers can buy a sandwich with £100 they have saved over BA's high fares..."
I remember him saying previously a few months ago how Ryanair could afford to offer fares at the current rate provided oil did not exceed $75 per barrell. With oil prices at an all time high the press are saying $100 a barrell could be a reality in the not too distant future.
Now MOL has committed himself to never creating a surcharge for fuel.
They have a Wheel Chair levy when booking flights so I am sure they can rebrand a fuel levy as something else with some made up name and blame this fake surcharge on the airport authorities or EC.
As you know BestWestern, RPKs are a more reasonable representation of an airline's production than outright passenger numbers. I suspect that BA is still WAY ahead in terms of RPKs.
Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 17): Now MOL has committed himself to never creating a surcharge for fuel.
Big deal... Its all typical O'Leary spin. Without published fares and publicly exposed fare buckets, Ryanair can just charge more without even mentioning the word surcharge, and everyone will just assume when they pay slightly more than they did last time that the flight is fuller at the time they booked.
That may be true, but that isn't what the linked article says.
It says that in August, Ryanair carried more passengers than BA.
It doesn't say that Ryanair is bigger or smaller than BA. It doesn't say that Ryanair made more or less money than BA. It doesn't say if passenger satisfaction rates for Ryanair were greater or less than BA. It doesn't compare short haul and long haul, it doesn't compare service standards, it doesn't compare costs or fuel surcharges.
It says what it says.
That one fact is, in itself, remarkable, but it is only one fact.
Squirrel83 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4434 times:
Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 3): Personally, I think this is a useless fact. You really can't compare passenger numbers with FR and BA, due to their different styles. BA is an international airline, meaning that a good amount of their flights are long-haul. Who do you think is going to carry more, a 777 that carries 250 people one day one flight, or a 737 that carriers 130 people fives times throughout the day? This is similar to what has happened in the US with WN. The facts are deceiving. I am not trying to take anything away from FR, but if you are a FR fan, don't get a big head, while if you are a BA fan, don't get down.
I Agree! ! Keep in mind that these are diffrent markets.
Quoting BestWestern (Reply 16): However, Ryanair were Europes third largest airline in August, after Lufthansa and AirFrance/KLM. Next year, or 2007 they will be europes biggest airline.
Are we talking about aircraft? Or Pax? or Both? Profits?
Quoting Orion737 (Reply 14): Come on BA, some of us are only loyal to you for the in-flight service, bar trolley and food cart. Dont let this happen again or we all might as well fly Ryanair!
Don't know about you but I would take BA over FR anyda, service, aircraft, and well in flight services as well. . . YEhh!
Quoting Mariner (Reply 10): Virgin may not compete with Ryanair, but British Midland does. Virgin has an arrangement with British Midland and there are many rumors that Virgin is considering buying British Midland.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought this rumor was found to be not true. Although can you imagine? Do you suppose that if Virgin would buy BMI would they merge the aircraft to the Virgin Atlantic Family or Virgin Express, or keep the name BMI?
Try telling that to BA. They see their short haul profits being constantly eroded by Ryanair.
Ryanair are now probably the largest intra-european airline, and shortly to be the largest european carrier in terms of passengers carried, % profit margin and total profits. In terms of RPK's LH, BA and KL/AF are still ahead.
What does this mean in terms of O'Leary being able to abuse his position of strength to kick other carriers off routes?
The world is really getting smaller these days
: Whoops!! And all I thought it said was Ryanair flew more passengers than BA! Guess I must have misunderstood the meaning?!!! Even when it's a clear an
: The fact that BA has the entire world to recruit passengers and Ryanair only has Europe but carries more passengers than BA I find rather enbarrasing.
: Hang on Irishjohn, as far as I know BA shareholders are doing just fine and getting their dividends as normal. I believe FR has never paid a bean to
: Since when . . . there haven't been any BA dividends for years . . .
: As by and large the FR network could be described as opportunistically named they don't operate on many of the same routes as such. U2 operate to man
: According to BA's Annual Report and Accounts, 13.02% of the share capital is owned by individuals and 83.75% by bank or nominee companies. The percen
: BA's already tried the 'biggest is best' approach and decided against it.By all accounts it was the right course to take!
: Does anyone have RPM comparative data on these two airlines?
: I'm sorry, I must've misread their website... from ba.com "our employees motivated and achieving a good work life balance pays dividends in improved
: From ATW July 2005 (although figures are 2004): (in million pax) 1. Southwest 81,2 2. Ryanair 26,6 3. EasyJet 22,3 4. Am. West 21,1 5. AirTran 13,2 6
: Not correct. The first BA aircraft were painted in September 1973. They had 'British airways' titles. In 1981 BA introduced the same livery as 1973 b