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Ryanair Carry More Passengers Than BA In August  
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7152 posts, RR: 57
Posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4350 times:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...10000102&sid=acBbsIh3kghE&refer=uk

The number of people flying with Ryanair in August rose 27 percent to 3.26 million travelers from 2.57 million passengers a year earlier.

London-based British Airways flew 3.1 million passengers last month, a 3.9 percent decline, after a strike Aug. 11-12 halted 700 flights, stranding 100,000 travelers.


The world is really getting smaller these days
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEgmcman From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 898 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4295 times:

MOL said they would carry more passengers than BA even before BA where dragged into the GG dispute.

I don't see the big deal when FR only fly short haul flights IMHO it's only marketing spin.

cheers

egmcman


User currently offlineNcfc99 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 740 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4223 times:

I would assume the report to be accurate, so that would make the information a fact,and therefore not marketing spin.

Way to go FR. Long may it continue.


User currently offlineSonOfACaptain From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1747 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4191 times:

Personally, I think this is a useless fact. You really can't compare passenger numbers with FR and BA, due to their different styles. BA is an international airline, meaning that a good amount of their flights are long-haul. Who do you think is going to carry more, a 777 that carries 250 people one day one flight, or a 737 that carriers 130 people fives times throughout the day? This is similar to what has happened in the US with WN. The facts are deceiving. I am not trying to take anything away from FR, but if you are a FR fan, don't get a big head, while if you are a BA fan, don't get down.

-SOAC

[Edited 2005-09-05 20:42:41]


Non Illegitimi Carborundum
User currently offlineGARPD From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2659 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4173 times:

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 1):
I don't see the big deal when FR only fly short haul flights IMHO it's only marketing spin.

Absolutely agree



arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently offlineEgmcman From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 898 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4150 times:

Quoting Ncfc99 (Reply 2):
I would assume the report to be accurate, so that would make the information a fact,and therefore not marketing spin.

Way to go FR. Long may it continue.

I wasn't disputing the accuarcy it just isn't comparing like for like as BA have a massive global route network and FR has a short haul route network.

cheers

egmcman


User currently offlineNcfc99 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 740 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4130 times:

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 5):
I wasn't disputing the accuarcy it just isn't comparing like for like as BA have a massive global route network and FR has a short haul route network.



Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 3):
You really can't compare passenger numbers with FR and BA, due to their different styles. BA is an international airline, meaning that a good amount of their flights are long-haul. Who do you think is going to carry more, a 777 that carries 250 people one day one flight, or a 737 that carriers 130 people fives times throughout the day.

I do not disagree with either of the above posts.
To my mind, spin is something that is not quite the truth, or twisted truths to suit your own point.  biggrin 


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25260 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4117 times:
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Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 3):
The facts are deceiving.

How? A fact is what it is. Any "deception" is in the mind of the interpreter.

This fact is extremely interesting. When the statement was made, many people said it was unthinkable and laughed at Mr. O'Leary.

Well, it isn't "unthinkable" anymore, and I hope they're not laughing.

To ignore it or to claim that it is irrelevant, or "marketing spin", is to underestimate or discount what is going on, just as the US legacy carriers underestimated the power of the LCC movement in the US.

I mean, gosh, if people at US Airways had believed Mr. Siegel, instead of fighting him, things might have been different - although it was probably too late by then.

I think you can bet that BA isn't ignoring it. Or Virgin Atlantic, for that matter.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineNcfc99 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 740 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4098 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 7):
I think you can bet that BA isn't ignoring it. Or Virgin Atlantic, for that matter.

I don't think there is a single route that VS and FR even remotely compete on. Unlike BA, where the competition from all LCC's is prominent.


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2501 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4086 times:

Well how many bases has Ryanair? A lot and many of them are outside of the UK. So the comparaison is not accurate. Well I don't care if Ryanair carries more passengers than BA. Is that going to turn me away from BA, surely not...


Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25260 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4077 times:
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Quoting Ncfc99 (Reply 8):
Unlike BA, where the competition from all LCC's is prominent.

It isn't a question - for VS - of the competition. It is a part of the picture of what is happening in the UK/EU civil aviation market.

It is essential, in business, to be aware of what the competition is doing.

Virgin may not compete with Ryanair, but British Midland does. Virgin has an arrangement with British Midland and there are many rumors that Virgin is considering buying British Midland.

I have no idea if the rumors are true, I have no idea what is in SRB's mind. But the little piece of information we are discussing is a part - however big or small - of the picture.

cheers

mariner

[Edited 2005-09-05 21:00:07]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4067 times:

Even though the numbers speak for them self, we should not be comparing a mainline airline to a LCC. Its just two very different markets.

The more correct thing would be to compare Easyjet to Ryanair.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineNcfc99 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 740 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4054 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 10):
It is essential, in business, to be aware of what the competition is doing

They are probably well aware of this situation, but it has very little impact on the VS business(at the moment).

Quoting Mariner (Reply 10):
Virgin has an arrangement with British Midland and there are many rumors that Virgin is considering buying British Midland.

You learn something new everytime you log on to A.net.

Does anyone one think that in the future, there will be airlines for longhaul and other airlines for shorthaul (e.g.. VS and FR), with full service shorthaul airlines a very small percentage of the industry?


User currently offlineNcfc99 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 740 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4046 times:

Quoting WINGS (Reply 11):
The more correct thing would be to compare Easyjet to Ryanair.

Could anyone come up with a league table for pax numbers for worldwide LCC's?. I would like to know which are the top 10 in the world.


User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4025 times:

Ryanair probably 'fed' more passengers in August than BA too!!

Come on BA, some of us are only loyal to you for the in-flight service, bar trolley and food cart. Dont let this happen again or we all might as well fly Ryanair!


User currently offlineCarduelis From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2001, 1586 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3985 times:

The Chairman of Ryanair, David Bonderman, is also the boss of Gate Gourmet . . . !


Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7152 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3956 times:

Before I start, I'm not a Ryanair Fan, and never fly them.

However, Ryanair were Europes third largest airline in August, after Lufthansa and AirFrance/KLM. Next year, or 2007 they will be europes biggest airline.

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 1):
I don't see the big deal when FR only fly short haul flights

What difference does this make. Ryanair had more bums on seats.

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 3):
You really can't compare passenger numbers with FR and BA

Passengers are passengers. If bloomberg sees an interest in reporting it, it must be important.

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 3):
facts are deceiving

Isn't that a contradiction?

Quoting Mariner (Reply 7):
many people said it was unthinkable

True.. Me included. Many people are eating humble pie.

Quoting Ncfc99 (Reply 8):
I don't think there is a single route that VS and FR even remotely compete on

FR and VS compete for passengers . Will I go to Orlando this year on holidays, or go to Jerez instead?

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 9):
So the comparaison is not accurate.

Why not? FR carried more passengers.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3024 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3937 times:

Michael O'Leary may have shit himself in the foot, in the press annoucement he made today he also said (as quoted from Ryanair website):

"...Ryanair's passenger volumes are growing rapidly thanks to new destinations, lowest ever fares, industry leading punctuality and customer service and Ryanair's guarantee of NO fuel surcharges, not today, not tomorrow, not ever. BA keep turning passengers away with fuel surcharge after fuel surcharge, high fares, poor punctuality, flight cancellations and no catering. At least on Ryanair, customers can buy a sandwich with £100 they have saved over BA's high fares..."

I remember him saying previously a few months ago how Ryanair could afford to offer fares at the current rate provided oil did not exceed $75 per barrell. With oil prices at an all time high the press are saying $100 a barrell could be a reality in the not too distant future.

Now MOL has committed himself to never creating a surcharge for fuel.

They have a Wheel Chair levy when booking flights so I am sure they can rebrand a fuel levy as something else with some made up name and blame this fake surcharge on the airport authorities or EC.

[Edited 2005-09-05 22:20:19]

User currently offlineSkymonster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3882 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 16):
Why not? FR carried more passengers.

As you know BestWestern, RPKs are a more reasonable representation of an airline's production than outright passenger numbers. I suspect that BA is still WAY ahead in terms of RPKs.

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 17):
Now MOL has committed himself to never creating a surcharge for fuel.

Big deal... Its all typical O'Leary spin. Without published fares and publicly exposed fare buckets, Ryanair can just charge more without even mentioning the word surcharge, and everyone will just assume when they pay slightly more than they did last time that the flight is fuller at the time they booked.

Andy


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25260 posts, RR: 85
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3864 times:
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Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 17):
Michael O'Leary may have shit himself in the foot,

That's really not a pretty mental picture.  Smile

Quoting Skymonster (Reply 18):
I suspect that BA is still WAY ahead in terms of RPKs.

That may be true, but that isn't what the linked article says.

It says that in August, Ryanair carried more passengers than BA.

It doesn't say that Ryanair is bigger or smaller than BA. It doesn't say that Ryanair made more or less money than BA. It doesn't say if passenger satisfaction rates for Ryanair were greater or less than BA. It doesn't compare short haul and long haul, it doesn't compare service standards, it doesn't compare costs or fuel surcharges.

It says what it says.

That one fact is, in itself, remarkable, but it is only one fact.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSquirrel83 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3848 times:

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 3):
Personally, I think this is a useless fact. You really can't compare passenger numbers with FR and BA, due to their different styles. BA is an international airline, meaning that a good amount of their flights are long-haul. Who do you think is going to carry more, a 777 that carries 250 people one day one flight, or a 737 that carriers 130 people fives times throughout the day? This is similar to what has happened in the US with WN. The facts are deceiving. I am not trying to take anything away from FR, but if you are a FR fan, don't get a big head, while if you are a BA fan, don't get down.

I Agree! ! Keep in mind that these are diffrent markets.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 16):
However, Ryanair were Europes third largest airline in August, after Lufthansa and AirFrance/KLM. Next year, or 2007 they will be europes biggest airline.

Are we talking about aircraft? Or Pax? or Both? Profits?

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 14):
Come on BA, some of us are only loyal to you for the in-flight service, bar trolley and food cart. Dont let this happen again or we all might as well fly Ryanair!

Don't know about you but I would take BA over FR anyda, service, aircraft, and well in flight services as well. . . YEhh!

Quoting Mariner (Reply 10):
Virgin may not compete with Ryanair, but British Midland does. Virgin has an arrangement with British Midland and there are many rumors that Virgin is considering buying British Midland.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought this rumor was found to be not true. Although can you imagine? Do you suppose that if Virgin would buy BMI would they merge the aircraft to the Virgin Atlantic Family or Virgin Express, or keep the name BMI?


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25260 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3830 times:
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Quoting Squirrel83 (Reply 20):
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought this rumor was found to be not true.

As I said before, I've no idea.

But it is true that there are rumors of the buyout, on this website, as recently as a couple of weeks ago.

Since Virgin code shares with British Midland on some routes, what happens with British Midland is of some interest to Virgin.

Will Virgin buy British Midland? Maybe, but I doubt it. SRB has made it clear that he enjoys starting things, not buying other people's messes to fix up.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineEgmcman From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 898 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3756 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 16):
Quoting Egmcman (Reply 1):
I don't see the big deal when FR only fly short haul flights

What difference does this make. Ryanair had more bums on seats

They compete on very different markets.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 16):
Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 3):
You really can't compare passenger numbers with FR and BA

Passengers are passengers. If bloomberg sees an interest in reporting it, it must be important

It was a fact from Ryanair's report as it was on ceefax also.

cheers


User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3713 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 14):
Ryanair probably 'fed' more passengers in August than BA too!!

Come on BA, some of us are only loyal to you for the in-flight service, bar trolley and food cart. Dont let this happen again or we all might as well fly Ryanair!

As true as this may be Orion, I really wish you'd change the record Big grin

7LBAC111



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7152 posts, RR: 57
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3666 times:

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 22):
They compete on very different markets.

Try telling that to BA. They see their short haul profits being constantly eroded by Ryanair.

Ryanair are now probably the largest intra-european airline, and shortly to be the largest european carrier in terms of passengers carried, % profit margin and total profits. In terms of RPK's LH, BA and KL/AF are still ahead.

What does this mean in terms of O'Leary being able to abuse his position of strength to kick other carriers off routes?



The world is really getting smaller these days
25 Irishjohn : Whoops!! And all I thought it said was Ryanair flew more passengers than BA! Guess I must have misunderstood the meaning?!!! Even when it's a clear an
26 Babybus : The fact that BA has the entire world to recruit passengers and Ryanair only has Europe but carries more passengers than BA I find rather enbarrasing.
27 BHXFAOTIPYYC : Hang on Irishjohn, as far as I know BA shareholders are doing just fine and getting their dividends as normal. I believe FR has never paid a bean to
28 Carduelis : Since when . . . there haven't been any BA dividends for years . . .
29 Egmcman : As by and large the FR network could be described as opportunistically named they don't operate on many of the same routes as such. U2 operate to man
30 BCAL : According to BA's Annual Report and Accounts, 13.02% of the share capital is owned by individuals and 83.75% by bank or nominee companies. The percen
31 Donder10 : BA's already tried the 'biggest is best' approach and decided against it.By all accounts it was the right course to take!
32 Pope : Does anyone have RPM comparative data on these two airlines?
33 Post contains images BHXFAOTIPYYC : I'm sorry, I must've misread their website... from ba.com "our employees motivated and achieving a good work life balance pays dividends in improved
34 BuyantUkhaa : From ATW July 2005 (although figures are 2004): (in million pax) 1. Southwest 81,2 2. Ryanair 26,6 3. EasyJet 22,3 4. Am. West 21,1 5. AirTran 13,2 6
35 VV701 : Not correct. The first BA aircraft were painted in September 1973. They had 'British airways' titles. In 1981 BA introduced the same livery as 1973 b
36 Egmcman : Thanks for that.
37 Egmcman : I'm too young to know, but thanks for correcting me .
38 Post contains images BmiBaby737 : Hi Not true, I never like to read - But I got given a book all about the history of British Airways, and it was really interesting! It tells you every
39 JGPH1A : O'Leary deliberately only flies routes that aren't served by anyone else. If you want to go to Beauvais, fly FR. If you want to go to Paris, fly AF,
40 AIR MALTA : BA said that its future lies in cooperations and take overs, so may be we will see BA flying again between Frankfurt and Paris and then it will be int
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