Srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16896 posts, RR: 51 Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5311 times:
Alright everyone get your Nomex on, the flamefest is about to begin. So how many posts until the AMFA boosters start laying on the propaganda.......
Perhaps the bus drivers ought to make a point and just play chicken with the AMFA picketers trying to block the road. Maybe it'll take one of them getting hit to realize that trying to block the road isn't such a smart idea. If you're going to express your hatred towards the workers that have replaced you because you have gone on strike, try something like throwing eggs or dirt clods at the buses. Vent your frustration that way......
Crogalski From United States of America, joined May 2005, 514 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5233 times:
Just shows how low they'll go... losers
A319 A320 B717 B727 B737 B747 B757 B767 C152 C172 DC9 E145 E190 MD88 PA28 | B6 CO DL FL NK NW LO TW
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22241 posts, RR: 51 Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5211 times:
NWA does probably have a decent case.
In similar situation but outside the airline industry companies have sued striking unions alleging harassment and intimidation on several occasions.
Media reports of AMFA members driving going to hotels wearing bright red t-shirts with "scab hunters" written across them could likely be viewed as harassment.
From what I remember of previous cases even the appearance of groups of strikers outside of publicly authorized picket locations(remember you need a city/county permit to picket) has been found to be illegal forms of organized intimidation/harassment.
In the eyes, of the courts, while strikers do have a legal right to express themselves in authorized manner, the replacement workers have just as equal rights to be able to go to work without being in fear of possible hostile incidents.
AMFA needs to literally walk a fine line otherwise could be found liable for the actions of its members.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Dougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5180 times:
Well, without any idea what the text of the petition is, I'd have to say it looks like it's another chapter in the pissing contest between NWA and the mechanics' union.
I'm going to reserve judgment on this one until someone goes down to the courthouse and gets a copy of the petition and posts it somewhere. On the surface of it, though, it sounds like a nuisance suit of no particular value except as a pain in the arse.
There's a 20 day period for the defendant to respond and assert counterclaims....then still more days for discovery and so on....by which point either the union caves, the company caves, or the company files a bankruptcy petition...
If I had to take a guess, I'd say that the third alternative is the most likely one and it's going to happen soon. If that happens a lot of interesting things could happen, particularly to those whom the company owes money to, and those who have their property in the custody of the company. That includes unpaid wages for everyone and mechanics toolboxes.
I knew a few guys who worked for a commuter airline that went bust back in the eighties and when they came to work Monday am the place was padlocked with their tools inside....some of them had to wait six months to get their stuff out of the hangar.
Zvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 65 Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5099 times:
I hope the union thugs can restrain themselves enough that the serious workers can work without fear of violence and that the passengers can fly without fear of being physically attacked by former workers.
DL1011 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 386 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5025 times:
"I hope the union thugs can restrain themselves enough that the serious workers can work without fear of violence and that the passengers can fly without fear of being physically attacked by former workers."
I think NW is being more thug-like in how it treats it's employee's and from what I have seen of the replacement "mechanics" I think the pax have more to fear from poor mtc then some picket line walkers getting a bit vocale.
A half way decent AMT can replace a 757 main tire in less then 1 hour, and that includes the time needed to gather up the tooling. We watched 4 SwissPort scabs take almost 4 hours to replace ONE 757 main tire.
Dougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4909 times:
Quoting DL1011 (Reply 6): A half way decent AMT can replace a 757 main tire in less then 1 hour, and that includes the time needed to gather up the tooling. We watched 4 SwissPort scabs take almost 4 hours to replace ONE 757 main tire.
And that's with taking the time to inspect and repack the wheel bearings AND give the axle the once over AND have a cuppa joe AND have the inspector sign off on it....now, on the other hand if it's on the ramp in Minneapolis Saint Paul in the middle of a January howler complete with all the trimmings, I'd just as soon let the scabs do it.
Do y'know, that kind of weather can show you how to do eight hours worth of work in three hours? I'm here to tell you.
I used to work for an FBO in Michigan and one of the customers crashed on Beaver Island out in the lake...this was in the middle of December. So me and this other guy get all the TPE331 gearbox tooling (sudden stoppage inspection doncha know) and we head out in the boss's P-Baron for Charlevoix, then over to the island on a B-N Islander and there's the plane...one prop all bent to hell, out there in the snowstorm that had blown up while we were on our way upstate ....the stove was on in the airport shack but that was it....Do y'know I had that gearbox gutted out, inspected, put back together and had the torque sensing calibrated in three hours and that was an eight hour job? Of course my buddy helped mightily....what a day....we both looked at each other and said "No effing way are we spending the night on this island!"
Hammer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 677 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4879 times:
Rumor from a few good sources at NWA have said that NWA will file for chapter 11 as soon as Wednesday.....we will see....
Alphascan From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 936 posts, RR: 14 Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4848 times:
Hammer,
I'll bet you a $1000 that your sources aren't very good. They won't file...at least this week or next.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
Hammer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 677 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4831 times:
Quoting Alphascan (Reply 9): I'll bet you a $1000 that your sources aren't very good.
I am not a betting man, I am just saying what I heard....don't kill the messenger, but hey, if it is true, I will still take the grand!!
Squid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4722 times:
Quoting DL1011 (Reply 6): I think NW is being more thug-like in how it treats it's employee's and from what I have seen of the replacement "mechanics"
What a load of crap. Get over it AMFA. I think NWA should try to sue the pants off of AMFA, take them to court over anything, break their banks, and their spirits, and let them know, loud and clear, they are NEVER coming back to work at NWA.
Hammer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 677 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4620 times:
Quoting Squid (Reply 11): What a load of crap. Get over it AMFA. I think NWA should try to sue the pants off of AMFA, take them to court over anything, break their banks, and their spirits, and let them know, loud and clear, they are NEVER coming back to work at NWA.
NWA has already broken AMFA, and AMFA's bank account is getting really low because of the strike...as far as them never going back, wait till the bankruptsy judge rules on what is what....
Glideslope From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1548 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4150 times:
Quoting Srbmod (Reply 1): Alright everyone get your Nomex on, the flamefest is about to begin. So how many posts until the AMFA boosters start laying on the propaganda.......
Perhaps the bus drivers ought to make a point and just play chicken with the AMFA picketers trying to block the road. Maybe it'll take one of them getting hit to realize that trying to block the road isn't such a smart idea. If you're going to express your hatred towards the workers that have replaced you because you have gone on strike, try something like throwing eggs or dirt clods at the buses. Vent your frustration that way......
Now that is the best suggestion I have read in days. Run every one of them over. Then send the buses over to Boeing and run those striking fools over as well.
"All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved"
DL1011 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 386 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3993 times:
Frequentflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 736 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3900 times:
What a bunch of losers. If you wanna fight, fight, but fight by the rules.
Those guys are becoming desperate.
They are not helped by their union management anyways.
Aogdesk From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 933 posts, RR: 4 Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3747 times:
Quoting Frequentflyer (Reply 15): If you wanna fight, fight, but fight by the rules.
Thats a fine and dandy declaration, but both sides have to abide by those rules. No disrespect intended, but I suspect that you have VERY limited knowledge of the events that led up to the walkout. It'd be kind of silly to think that NWA is adhering to some type of rules in the fight to take AMTs salaries down the tubes. Corporate America has proven time and time again that 'rules' and loyalty are things of the past.
I'm directly in tune with industry events (not at NWA though) and I'm well aware of how NWA invoked the Force Majeure clause to toss the terms of the contract aside, even when the rest of the industry had regained what was lost (in terms of pax count) to 9/11 days. Is that 'fighting by the rules?' Thats only one example, but it underscores the fact that corporations are entirely willing and more than happy to treat law and the court system to their advantage depending on what their agenda is for the day.
Dougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3725 times:
Quoting Frequentflyer (Reply 15): Frequentflyer From United States, joined Jul 2005, 114 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted Tue Sep 6 2005 14:30:14 UTC+2 and read 75 times:
What a bunch of losers. If you wanna fight, fight, but fight by the rules.
Those guys are becoming desperate.
They are not helped by their union management anyways.
Hmmmmmmm....I thought this thread was about the lawsuit that nobody seems to know anything about....but it has descended into yet another anti union anti AMFA diatribe by all the usual suspects.
Get a grip people-stay on topic.
Nobody seems to be able to answer the central issue and that is how much AMFA members ought to give up so half of them can keep their jobs.
They decided it was too much. Like any other supplier to NWA they decided to withhold services until the issue is resolved. NWA is using strikebreakers and management to allegedly maintain the aircraft in the interim. AMFA doesn't like that. They're being aggressive. Whether it's within the law or not is yet to be decided. That's what the lawsuit may be about only not one of you has gone to the courthouse, gotten a copy of the petition and posted it somewhere.
I believe the membership voted on this right? So why is it so hard for people to understand that workers ought to be able to organize and bargain collectively, even if it turns out that their collective decision is the wrong one?
Dalmd88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2370 posts, RR: 15 Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3694 times:
This is just history repeating it's self. If those coal miners around the turn of the century had just walked away and let the scabs take their jobs this country would be a lot worse off today. It is because of the actions of those union members that we have the work laws and safety laws we have today. AMFA is just doing the same thing. BTW if you read some history back then it was a whole lot bloodier. People were killed for crossing a strike line and companies hired thugs to break bats over strikers heads. It could be whole lot worse than some name calling and blocking busses in the street.
Bmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2091 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3679 times:
Things are staring to get really ugly; I mean does AMFA really want to take down NWA? If so why? NW has been one of the leading US major carriers despite their persistence on holding on to its rusty DC-10s and DC-9s....
The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
ChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3819 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3636 times:
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 7): And that's with taking the time to inspect and repack the wheel bearings AND give the axle the once over AND have a cuppa joe AND have the inspector sign off on it....now, on the other hand if it's on the ramp in Minneapolis Saint Paul in the middle of a January howler complete with all the trimmings, I'd just as soon let the scabs do it.
Of course, it is ALL about the 'cuppa joe.' All unions care about is the length of their coffee breaks and their sick time and their vacation time. Prove me wrong. And if it IS wrong, then the unions ought to hire a whole avalanche of PR people to change that perception, because that's what EVERYONE thinks.
Dougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3543 times:
Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 20): ChrisNH From United States, joined Jun 1999, 1149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted Tue Sep 6 2005 15:39:46 UTC+2 and read 48 times:
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 7):
And that's with taking the time to inspect and repack the wheel bearings AND give the axle the once over AND have a cuppa joe AND have the inspector sign off on it....now, on the other hand if it's on the ramp in Minneapolis Saint Paul in the middle of a January howler complete with all the trimmings, I'd just as soon let the scabs do it.
Of course, it is ALL about the 'cuppa joe.' All unions care about is the length of their coffee breaks and their sick time and their vacation time. Prove me wrong. And if it IS wrong, then the unions ought to hire a whole avalanche of PR people to change that perception, because that's what EVERYONE thinks.
I don't have to prove you wrong-you're the one advancing the proposition without any backing so maybe YOU oughtta start marshalling your facts because it's your burden to overcome.
By the way, what's your problem with coffee breaks, sick time or vacation time? Does your present employer not allow such things, or do you figure that jacking around at the water cooler does not count?
Aogdesk From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 933 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3533 times:
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 17): Like any other supplier to NWA they decided to withhold services until the issue is resolved.
An excellent perspective. Should XYZ Catering Company keep delivering goods to an airline when that airline tells that company that it's only going to pay 75% of the price of those goods? If XYZ wants to remain a supplier, they'll concede a discount of course (concession). If they want to stay in business, there'll be a line which is eventually crossed whereby they'll refuse to deliver goods. It can't be any simpler than that.
Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 20): because that's what EVERYONE thinks.
Sounds like a rather amateurish poll you took there. I'll find plenty of people who both dispute that AND care for the safety of your backside as you hurtle thru the skies at .84 mach. I won't pretend to be an expert at marketing/PR and you can return the favor to myself and my colleagues.
AndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 44 Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3475 times:
Yay! AMFA is one step closer to dissolving! Union-Busting is working! Good for NWA, and good for all airlines who have unions pulling them down!
Aviationwiz From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 953 posts, RR: 4 Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3394 times:
Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 23): and good for all airlines who have unions pulling them down!
Like WN, and 5X! Neither is turning a profit at all with their unions...
Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
25 Frequentflyer: Listen this is clearly not the issue, your amount of knowledge against mine. You're an expert? I respect that, however I could not care less. The iss
26 KabAir: I completely agree that XYZ has every right to refuse to provide goods in this situation if they so choose. I also completely agree that the AMFA mec
27 Aogdesk: Ok...I certainly don't condone violence. And true aviation professionals wouldn't "drive a scab to work". I don't want planes falling out of the sky.
28 Alphascan: Since you are so in tune with industry events, next time you'll remember to factor yield into your argument. The industry has changed and its not goi
29 Dougloid: Well, I'm sure that AMFA said something like that...but the company's best and final contract offer was a 25 per cent pay cut and a loss of 50 per ce
30 Aogdesk: To be sure, there are many factors which I've considered in my arguments, and not all of them side with NW mechanics. While I certainly don't claim t
31 Frequentflyer: OK, I would appreciate if you could share the reason for that concern. You seem to assume the work will be cheapjack because those guys are replaceme
32 Aogdesk: Ah....very glad you asked, and I'd be happy to elaborate so that you're not under the impression that my concerns are self motivated. Let me start by
33 Dougloid: Right you are. I know a guy, haven't talked to him in years. He went to Alaska Airlines back in the late seventies or early eighties as a scab when t
34 Frequentflyer: AOG OK I understand your opinion a bit better, Thanks for sharing.
35 KarlB737: Courtesy: The Detroit News Striking Northwest Employees Picket At Toledo Rail Yard http://www.detnews.com/2005/business/0509/07/01-306902.htm
36 Ouboy79: Yes...picket a rail hub that isn't really directly connected to the situation. Morons. lol
37 Dougloid: You don't get it. Next time the chairman of CSX is out on the golf course with the chairman of NWA, what's he gonna say? "How the hell are ya, JR?" N
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