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Polish LOT To Pick Boeing In $500 Mln Deal  
User currently offlineSafetyDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 15
Posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10092 times:

"WARSAW (Reuters) - Polish airline LOT will choose long-haul jets from Boeing over rival Airbus at a supervisory board meeting on Wednesday, a board source told Reuters.

Industry sources have estimated the value of the tender to lease around six long-haul jets at $500 million or more. Boeing's 787 is competing with the Airbus A350 in the tender."

http://in.today.reuters.com/news/new...NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-215189-1.xml

-wILL


"She Flew For What We Stand For"
52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineReggaebird From Jamaica, joined Nov 1999, 1174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10048 times:

I will believe it when I see the announcement of a signed order! I wouldn't put it past certain elements to put out this kind of news only to have the reverse happen to the embarassment of the other aircraft manufacturer.

Reggaebird


User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4095 posts, RR: 90
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9991 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 1):
I will believe it when I see the announcement of a signed order!

I would tend to agree with your statement. However, as quoted in the article it does appear that the order has gone to Boeing.

In an earlier interview, Airbus Senior Vice President Christopher Buckley argued that taking a decision on Wednesday would not allow enough time to complete an audit of the tender, which has been ordered to ensure transparency.

"I can't believe in a million years that the auditor is going to be ready by tomorrow with their comments and their own judgments. I would be astonished," Buckley told Reuters


They may well get the order but that does not appear to be a statement from someone who has just won the RFP

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineRamerinianair From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9839 times:

Around how many orders is LOT in the market for? The article says it is an order for $500 Million +.
I don't know how much each 787 will be but that won't get them more than 6 even if Boeing offers a really SWEET deal. The list at Boeing.com is 125-135 Million USD.
SR



W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9808 times:

Quoting Ramerinianair (Reply 3):
I don't know how much each 787 will be but that won't get them more than 6 even if Boeing offers a really SWEET deal. The list at Boeing.com is 125-135 Million USD.

They wouldn't really need more than 6 would they?

Besides the flights to North America, what other routes could LOT be expected to use their new 787s on?



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User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9751 times:

Chicago, New York, Toronto.

Are these served nonstop only from Warsawa? Or is Krakow as well used as an intercontinental gateway?

I was schlepping around the LOT website.....couldn't really tell. However they are featuring a special fare Chicago-Krakow.....but every date I chose, didn't even have a connecting flight.....

LOT Schedule experts out there?



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User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9619 times:

The september schedule contains KRK-EWR on Mondays and KRK-ORD on Mondays to Thursdays and Sunday.

For November KRK-ORD is Tuesday and Wednesday. No flights to new York over the winter.

In think i the summer high season there are even some more flights from KRK to North America.

Other intercontinental destination from KRK is Tel Aviv on Tuesdays.


User currently offlineHoya From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 382 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9447 times:

I wonder if those 6 Unidentified 787s are actually for LOT afterall.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 4):
Besides the flights to North America, what other routes could LOT be expected to use their new 787s on?

I believe LOT is trying to fly again to Asia. Not too long ago, they announced plans to fly to New Delhi.



Hoya Saxa!!
User currently offlineHalibut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9396 times:

Quoting Hoya (Reply 7):
I wonder if those 6 Unidentified 787s are actually for LOT afterall.

Hhhhmmmm  scratchchin  !

I have a feeling you're right . We'll just have to wait and see .

Halibut


User currently offlineGARPD From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2579 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9307 times:

Well as I said in a previous thread:

The 787 analysis shows it to have the best ROI percentage and fits LOT's current and future mission plans perfectly.
Whereas the A350 analysis shows it to be too big, too thirsty and actualy have no ROI over the same period as the 787.

What that period is, I was not told.

EDIT: should add that although this is what the analysis' have shown. The final decision rests with the board, whose arms are being twisted tightly by politics to select the A350.

(Politics influencing a fleet decision... nothing changes does it.. lol)

[Edited 2005-09-06 17:06:40]


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User currently offlineMilan320 From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 869 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9250 times:

Quoting SafetyDude (Thread starter):

Hmm, I guess we'll see tomorrow. Funny thing, hardly anything in the Polish dailies about this when I checked a few hours ago.

Quoting GARPD (Reply 9):
(Politics influencing a fleet decision... nothing changes does it.. lol)

It's happened before, may happen again ... be it Airbus or Boeing. Either decision will be political to some extent!
-Milan320



I accept bribes ... :-)
User currently offlineGARPD From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2579 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9148 times:

Quoting Milan320 (Reply 10):
It's happened before, may happen again ... be it Airbus or Boeing. Either decision will be political to some extent!

Indeed. Though I can assure you, even without politics.. the 787 is the better fit.



arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1596 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9140 times:

So now that LOT is all settled and Boeing won another round of A350 Vs 787...

I wonder what TP will go for??? Again, if no politics are involved the 787 should win this. 787 is a better fit for the A310 replacement.

Cheers,

Ric



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineKonrad From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9010 times:

Stirling:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 5):
Chicago, New York, Toronto.

Are these served nonstop only from Warsawa? Or is Krakow as well used as an intercontinental gateway?

This summer timetable they are doing:
10/7 WAW-ORD, 5/7 KRK-ORD,
8/7 WAW-JFK, 2/7 KRK-JFK,
5/7 WAW-EWR, 1/7 KRK-EWR,
and 7/7 WAW-YYZ
which gives a total of 38 weekly roundflights to USA/Canada.

Quite impressive if you realize it is being done with six 763/762 aircraft. However, such strong aircraft utilization results in frequent delays if any 767 goes mechanical. The usual flight time is about 10h westbound and 9-9.5h eastbound plus about 2h on the ground on each end - no much slack time if anything goes wrong. The KRK flights are usually served in the "W" mode, e.g. WAW-ORD-KRK-ORD-WAW avoiding WAW-KRK aircraft transfers. Krakow is in fact a regional airport (although developing rapidly). The US flights out of Krakow are mostly point-to-point ethnic immigration traffic (family visits and such).

The winter schedules are much more relaxed, KRK-ORD goes to 2/7 and KRK-JFK/EWR doesn't operate at all. This is why LOT was planning to start BKK, China or India flights which would have more traffic in winter to further optimize the fleet utilization.

The story of LOT 787 vs. 330/350 decision has been there for quite a long time. I hope they make that decision before NW chooses a DC9 replacement.  Wink


User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 69
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8947 times:

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 12):

I wonder what TP will go for??? Again, if no politics are involved the 787 should win this. 787 is a better fit for the A310 replacement.

That's true BoeingBus, the B787 is a perfect replacement for the A310-300, although Tap has spoken that they wish to replace both the A310-300 and A340-300 with one type of airplane. For this reason I believe that the B787 will prove too small for the replacement of the A340-300. Unless they were also to opt for the B777.

I still believe that this order may go both ways.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineGARPD From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2579 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8825 times:

TAP may well need to split their order.

The A350 looks to be a fine a343 replacer, but it is too heavy and will not have the wing for shorter A310 flights. Assuming of course TAP use them for short/medium high capacity routes like Lufthansa does theirs. This is prime 787-3 territory and a segment totaly ignored by the A350.

If however TAP utilises their A310s mainly on longer routes, the A350 may still be better.

To sum up, if TAP use their A310s on short/medium routes, the A350 is not economically viable. This leaves the door open to the 787 and consquently allows the 777 to have a stronger pitch as an A343 replacement.

If TAP use their A310s on long haul, the A350 has a very strong pair of legs to stand on in this fleet order and will suite both as an A343 and A310 replacement.



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User currently offlineFlanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8696 times:

that would be cool. im kinda getting bored of seeing their 762's 3 times a day at ORD.


Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9601 posts, RR: 69
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8664 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Where's Danny with his anti-Boeing rant(s)?

Danny, where art thou!


User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 69
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8592 times:

Quoting GARPD (Reply 15):
Assuming of course TAP use them for short/medium high capacity routes like Lufthansa does theirs.

LH no longer have the A310 in its fleet. Only the A300-600 are utilized.

Quoting GARPD (Reply 15):
If TAP use their A310s on long haul, the A350 has a very strong pair of legs to stand on in this fleet order and will suite both as an A343 and A310 replacement.

Well this is the case. Tap deploys its A310 mainly to Africa, North and South America. From time to time it may also be seen over Europe when demand is high.

For the short haul flights Tap is well served with its 3X A321 which has just about the same capacity as the A310.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlinePolAir From United States of America, joined May 2001, 893 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8570 times:

I have never believed they were gonna order A350. However I read somewhere that LOT is already thinking about 737 replecement. First one asked to submit offer was Airbus, so I donno what to think of that. It was printed in GW I believe.

User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8545 times:

I may starting flying more often on LO after the new terminal opens at WAW, so I hope for selfish reasons that they choose the B787.  Smile

User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3690 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8308 times:
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Good news for Boeing, now lets settle the strike so we can get some damn airplanes built. .....runs off to do the happy dance


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineSyncmaster From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 2015 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8093 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting GARPD (Reply 9):
best ROI percentage

Ok, I feel stupid, but it's time for Airliner Economics 101, what's ROI?

-Charlie


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7804 times:

ROI = RETURN ON INVESTMENT


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User currently offlineBlsbls99 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7721 times:

ROI is Return On Investment


319 320 313 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 742 752 763 772 CRJ D9S ERJ EMB L10 M88 M90 SF3 AT4
25 N328KF : Return on Investment. It's a business term that refers to the amount of additional profit you make by investing in a given resource, whether it be a
26 Areopagus : The article says $500 million to lease, not buy. It doesn't give the duration of the lease, so we can't compare the price to a purchase, and we don't
27 GARPD : According to my associate (sounds less corny that saying SOURCE) LOT would be paying pretty average rates for their 787s if they order them to BUY. T
28 Milan320 : Watch it, although it maybe true, wait until the official announcement. Remember, just a few months ago, Seattle PI and others were announcing that s
29 Post contains images Glideslope : Once again the A346 performance claims return to haunt Airbus. This is a huge problem for Airbus. In both A350 orders and the lack of A380 orders. Op
30 Milan320 : That would make perfect sense, at least from a political view. Order the 787 to stay in favour with the Americans (although don't see why that needs
31 HZ747300 : Looking at the Reuters feed, quite a nice day for Boeing: - LOT agrees to buy 6 787s - GOL Linhas Aereas ups its delivery schedule for 737-800s - Indi
32 BlueSky1976 : You can thank US Government for that, not Boeing. Probably made a few threats and gave a few bribes over there in order to get that order, too... Eit
33 BoeingBus : hmmm... ok... just curious of how you came up with this? is there something you know that we don't?
34 Post contains images HZ747300 : Actually, I need to correct my post, but I do not have the link to edit it for some reason. They chose the F-15 over the Rafale by Dassault Aviation S
35 Atmx2000 : Over Rafale not Eurofighters. The latter was already out of the running Why would you go and say something stupid like that? Singapore is probably th
36 Atmx2000 : It would be more the strong Euro than a weak dollar, as the Singpore dollar exchange rate is close to its average value. In fact when the dollar was
37 Post contains images BlueSky1976 : Hmm, let's see... 2000 - the South Korean F-X competition. US State Department made public threats to Korean officials about what the fate of their c
38 Atmx2000 : Well, the US has paid and continues to pay for a considerable portion of SK's defense. Your point is what? That the International Olympic Committee i
39 BlueSky1976 : It was at the time. They revised their code of assignment of the Olympic Games since then after Athens Olympic Comittee - the rightful host of the Ce
40 HZ747300 : Additionally, Athens was not ready to host the Olympics in 1996 as there was not enough infrastructure in place. Then when Athens did get the Olympic
41 Milan320 : There was more American help and it was in the form of electronic bugs too. I know someone who was part of the Gripen sales team at the time. Accordi
42 Post contains images Scbriml : Maybe they need the planes before either the A350 or 787 is available?
43 Atmx2000 : Of course that was a case of the US exposing bribery by Airbus of Saudis, wasn't it?
44 Milan320 : By what means exactly though? Nevertheless, what goes around comes around... -Milan320[Edited 2005-09-07 11:33:55]
45 Jet-lagged : If LOT chooses B, what will be A's reponse? a) Express disappointment and vow to do better next time b) Cry foul that the selection process was biased
46 BoeingBus : A will do what it did to Maroco RAM, and India Airlines... just pull the offer and blame the airline.
47 Jet-lagged : That would make the 3rd Star Alliance member for 787, or 4th if you count Air Canada. If it happens. TAP and Spanair may be good chances for the 350?
48 BlueSky1976 : Unfortunately, 787 in AC fleet is not happening. Not for now at least.
49 Georgiabill : Well it's late in the afternoon in Warsaw any official news yet?
50 Columbia107 : Well it is official. Boeing have confirmed the order and it is for 14 not 6 787s
51 PM : Strictly speaking, 7 firm, 2 options and 5 more purchase rights.
52 Post contains images Flanker : damn, im sick of seeing LOT being represented by boeing. same shit at ORD every day and when i fly to europe. Good news for boeing thougH!
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