6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3267 posts, RR: 21 Posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2478 times:
I wonder what impact the tragic events in Indonesia earlier this week will have on OzJet's proposed launch in Australia later this year.
News reports in Australia have highlighted the fact that OzJet plans to commence ops with 2 x B732's, similar to the aircraft operated by Mandala.
Is Ozjet best to go on the front foot, and defend the comments made, or should they let them slip, in the hope that the travelling public don't know/care what aircraft they travel on?
777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11350 posts, RR: 17 Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2431 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
IMHO Ozjets B732s shouldn't affect Ozjet. Not all B732s are unsafe when one crashes. Some airlines will operate them safly and others won't. Just remember that Ozjet will also use ex AN Bae146s.
Off topic, when it Ozjet scheduled to take off? What airports will receive Ozjet first?
Shenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1701 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2401 times:
Well, from what I've gathered on the crash thread, there is likely hood that the Mandala airplane was overloaded (weight), and the engine that didn't fail wasn't meeting the required power requirements and should have been replaced before the accident.
An airline operating outside of the regulations shouldn't affect an airplane type for another airline.
That being said, Qantas operated 767s when Lauda went down. Every airplane Qantas operates (less the A330) have had an accident, and they are still flying and making money.
6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3267 posts, RR: 21 Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2226 times:
I think you may have misunderstood my question.
I am not for one second doubting the safety of the B732.
I was talking about the general public perception.
If the media start to play up the fact Ozjet's aircraft is the same as Mandala's, joe blow wont make any further investigations...
they will just shy away from taking a "perceived" risk...
HKGKaiTak From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 1050 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2182 times:
Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 3): I was talking about the general public perception.
If the media start to play up the fact Ozjet's aircraft is the same as Mandala's, joe blow wont make any further investigations...
they will just shy away from taking a "perceived" risk...
I found myself thinking about this too ... however I was thinking more on the lines of what ammunition QF and DJ will have now. You can just see the ad or press release "Our 737s are newer and safer", and promotional material along the lines of "We fly new, safer and more comfortable 737 NGs with average fleet age of X years whilst our supposedly 'luxury' competitor flies 30 year old 737-200s"
Whilst the general public won't care, all they see is a 737, and in the case of Ozjet, business class seats in a 737...
JBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3163 posts, RR: 20 Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2163 times:
I'm probably missing something...but why would an Indonesian incident affect Australian advertising? I don't see how airlines could use this against Ozjet... I mean, if that was the case, any airline could do that to just about any other airline...
Lufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3086 posts, RR: 10 Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2139 times:
Both QF and DJ would be extremely foolish to try and get milage out of this...particularly with the "our 737s are NJ types, newer and SAFER".... the word newer..yes...but definately not safer!
The reason is simple. It only takes 1 737NG to crash... let's just say a CO one crashes in Denver thanks to the rought rocky mountain winds and hits clear air turbulence or something? Very stupid move... both companies aren't that short sighted.
Think of the NW DC-9 situation. You don't hear AA or UA making milage out of it? and, since NW was smart enough to fit new interiors in them, most passengers feel good about their DC-9 flight.
As far as Ozjet is concerned.... let it slide. They're not going to start flying in the next few months anyway, the Australian public will quickly forget a crash in indonesia. (think of the AF concorde crash... and just a bit before GA lost an A300 and more ppl died but it didn't make media attention.... the culture is too different etc...it doesn't feel as 'close' to home)
Afterburner From Indonesia, joined Jun 2005, 1109 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2120 times:
I know that just because one 737-200 has crashed doesn't mean they are not safe. But we're talking about an all-business-class airline, not an LCC. Why doesn't Stoddart use newer equipment? Is he tight on budget? Business passengers are willing to pay more. Get fresher aircrafts!
Lufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3086 posts, RR: 10 Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2105 times:
This carrier is a bit of a joke anyway... it remains to see if this concept is even viable.
Given that though, i think perhaps QF and DJ may be missing something with the business class market...particularly QF. Not too many ppl are willing to pay for QF's domestic business class... its down from about 5% in the mid 90s to less than 2% now, partly due to the absurd cost.
I did quick calculation... if you think about it... 5 abrest business class costs about another 35% more in terms of seat space. Therefore, if i were to charge say an additional say 42%... i could off a business class one way flight from BNE-SYD for example for somewhere around $145-$155 mark.
THAT is a product that im sure enough ppl would be willing to pay for! It wouldn't mean much extra profit to the airline (it would be about the same...but on less passengers per aircraft) but it would give certain PAX an escape from some of the current nasties.... So i think they're doing it all wrong. Sell business class like they sell discounted economy and ppl may just start paying for it. United PS service and AA's LAX/SFO - JFK are starting to provide some evidence for this (they're starting to discount business class and its working!) You make more money from paying customers than from Upgrades/free tickets.
6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3267 posts, RR: 21 Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2075 times:
Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 6): As far as Ozjet is concerned.... let it slide. They're not going to start flying in the next few months anyway, the Australian public will quickly forget a crash in indonesia.
Ozjet is in the process of getting CASA approvals as we speak, and they already have 2 B732's parked at MEL.
Launch is scheduled for November, operating MEL-SYD in the first instance.
60 business class seats, 2 x 2.
HKGKaiTak From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 1050 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1963 times:
Well the Ozjet article in the business section of today's Sydney Morning Herald did mention that they are flying the 732 - same type as those that went down recently (with the inevitable "they're safe" from Ozjet) ... so we can't say the media / competitors won't try and get mileage out of that.
HZ747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1598 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1949 times:
If I am Jetstar I run a commercial that has pictures of the destinations on competing routes. Then a voiceover says, "how do you want to get there?" [show image of Jetstare Airbus] "on a brand new airbus" [show images of the crash scene of the Mandala crash] "or, not at all."
[show animated image of a 737-200 crashing on takeoff] New voiceover, "your next trip could be on a flying coffin if you book on Ozjet, utilizing the 737-200, one of the oldest aircraft in the world" Sinister voiceover whispers "oldest in the world"
[show image of Jetstar plane taking off] Back to the original voiceover, "Or you can fly on the newest fleet in Australia with Jetstar!" Happy voiceover whispers "newest in Australia"
[show images of Peruvian and Indonesian greiving families] Voiceover, "If you love your family, don't let them fly on a 737-200 with Ozjet." Sinister voiceover whispers, "two crashes in one month..." [show images of smiling Jetstar crew with the man giving the voiceovers] Man speaking, "Make the smart choice, book with Jetstar today!"
Final image: Smiling Jetstar crew waving in front of a brand new Airbus.
-------
Storyboarding will take less than a week, but I think we could have it in production within 10-14 days!
Halophila From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 623 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1927 times:
I'm sure Paul Stoddart will do something nifty to quell the flying public's fears. After all, their F1 cars are both reliable and get the driver home every time, with a few spills here and there.
I will be interested to hear if this is viable; Does anyone know the load factors in J class on QF 1 hr flights, aside from upgrades? The figure of $150 or so one-way from SYD-MEL or SYD-BNE might fly if the fares are available last-minute or at all times of the day - nbl though IMO.
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