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NWA Says Talks To Resume With Mechanics On Thurs.  
User currently offlineBeefer From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 390 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3878 times:

The Minneapolis StarTribune is reporting that Northwest has announced that talks are to resume with the Mechanics union on Thursday.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/1778/5601573.html

This announcement comes one day after a letter sent to the Unions on Tuesday night, and released by the airline on Wednesday, threatened to begin hiring permanent replacements for the 4,427 strikers by Sept. 13.

A Union spokeman says they have not been notified of any planned talks.

[Edited 2005-09-07 20:44:40]

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyBoeing From United States of America, joined May 2000, 866 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3837 times:

There seems to be an inconsistency here - why would Northwest bother to deal with the old strikers when they seem to be operating well with their replacements?

The company line has been that they've beaten the strike and can operate indefinitely with the replacements.

Are the new mechanics not panning out? Is the situation so desperate that Northwest needs - heaven forbid - mechanics to work for even less than the replacements?

My feeling is that this might be tied to the FAA investigation in some way.


User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3145 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3796 times:

Courtesy: KSTP-TV

http://kstp.com/article/stories/S10359.html?cat=1


User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3772 times:

Maybe it is to reiterate one final time what the deal is or NWA will basically declare the AMFA mechs gone and go forth with their plans to make the replacement mechs permanent?

User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3145 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3748 times:

From The KSTP-TV Report:

"the airline saying it needs even bigger cuts than the ones mechanics struck over."


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26170 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3743 times:

Lets see if AMFA has been humbled enough to take what NWA offers.

If not as mentioned this will be a green light to make many of the replacement workers permanent.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinePlanenutz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3702 times:

It appears that NW has officially broken the strike.
The union has agreed to return to the negotiating table only after NW said that it would start hiring replacement workers into permanent positions on Sept. 13. This effectively means that when striking mechanics return to work, they'll be terminated or laid off.

Also, NW wants to approach the negotiating table with even deeper cuts to the mechanics:

"Our last best offer which was presented to you on August 18 was based on economic circumstances that no longer exist today," said the letter to Delle-Femine from Julie Hagen Showers, Northwest's vice president for labor relations. "While the company was prepared to stand behind that offer in order to obtain a consensual agreement, unfortunately we are no longer able to do so."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050907/ap_on_bi_ge/northwest_mechanics

Obviously, NW sees itself in a position to be agressive in it's demands. Ouch.

Additionally, NW says it will only return striking mechanics to work at its hubs. Spoke stations will probably use third party contractors for all maintenance.

I hate to say it, but AMFA nay have shot itself in the foot with this one.


User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2231 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3573 times:
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It would seem obvious that maintenance efficiency will increase if many of AMFAs techs return to offered jobs at the new rates. Their experience is priceless if they can adapt to the new workplace. I have no doubt that NW would like many to return despite the public rhetoric about the present programs success. I also have no doubt that this program was only meant to last little more than a month before a shakeout with temporary workers placed far from home and probably more experienced (airplane specific) home based AMFA represented technicians could fill in the widening gaps.

My oft repeated question is still whether NW can get beneficial contracts completed and affirmatively voted on before any Oct. 17 deadline makes them moot. Does NW think a workforce that agrees to vastly lesser contracts is worth more than one forced from abrogation? Some powerful number crunching has to be going on in Minneapolis.



Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineAviationwiz From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 962 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3560 times:

Quoting FlyBoeing (Reply 1):
Is the situation so desperate that Northwest needs - heaven forbid - mechanics to work for even less than the replacements?

The scabs are more than likely being paid more than NW would pay the AMFA mechs if a deal is reached.

Why? Pay is usually the number one reason for scabs to become scabs, for higher pay then they are at now.



Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3145 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3540 times:

Courtesy: KARE-TV

NWA And Mechanics Will Talk Thursday

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=106647

Video Report:

http://www.kare11.com/player.aspx?aid=18212&bw=


User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3501 times:

Quoting M404 (Reply 7):
Does NW think a workforce that agrees to vastly lesser contracts is worth more than one forced from abrogation?

It's not only about the workforce. Yeah, agreeing to bad terms is better than having them imposed.

But there are many, many reasons (lawyers... aircraft deliveries screwed) why NWA wishes to avoid bankruptcy. If the workers allow it, NWA can avoid it in my opinion. If not, NW will file for BK and the workers will feel lots more pain and will gain nothing.


User currently offlineLegacytravel From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1067 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3466 times:

My take on this is this: NWA will ask for deeper cuts than previous ones, they will also ask for different work rules, maybe give back of vacation time etc....
Bottom line is they have showed the AMFA that they can live without them and this is one last chance to get their members back on the job.
I highly doubt that AMFA will accept the new offer. If the do they will have gotten the biggest ass-whipping from a company in a long long time. It will show everybody the text book way on how to beat a union.

Mark in MKE



I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2231 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3452 times:
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Supa7E7

I quite agree - but it's only 38 days until all contracts have to be in if the Oct 17 date is important as assumed for BK rules. Thats ALPA, IAM, AMFA, Flight Att (Sorry but I can remember union), dispatchers, meteorologists, and whatever else. Voting usually takes a bare minimum of 14/20 days. IAM is remaining low key but the overall schedule for negotiations for IAM alone has only 6 more days in September. That is simply not enough time considering what little ground has been covered.



Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineFlyBoeing From United States of America, joined May 2000, 866 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3409 times:

I'm sensing a different angle here. A guy on the Yahoo! finance board asserts that NWA will lose its ETOPS certification in 14 days due to the FAA investigation. I honestly don't think that's completely outlandish given what happened a few weeks ago in Hawaii.

If Northwest loses ETOPS they'll have to operate their A330s domestically and put the 747s on the routes that the A330s used to fly internationally.

Again - this is wild speculation but nothing about Northwest's management will surprise me.


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13551 posts, RR: 100
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3399 times:
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Quoting FlyBoeing (Reply 13):
A guy on the Yahoo! finance board asserts that NWA will lose its ETOPS certification in 14 days due to the FAA investigation.

A guy who ranted quite a bit about putting NW into chapter 7 and getting high at the dentist... Not to mention his comment to NW shutting down JFK-NRT was "good job" as if anything but fuel prices and competition had anything to do with it. I'll doubt that source.

Recall that it was one FAA inspector who showed up with the large number of discrepancies. NW will be flying ETOPS for a while.

It looks like NW won this round. I'm betting the IAM will represent the temp mechanics hired on permanently at the hubs as there is no way the AMFA is going to accept the new offer.

Quoting M404 (Reply 12):
but it's only 38 days until all contracts have to be in if the Oct 17 date is important as assumed for BK rules. Thats ALPA, IAM, AMFA, Flight Att (Sorry but I can remember union), dispatchers, meteorologists, and whatever else. Voting usually takes a bare minimum of 14/20 days. IAM is remaining low key but the overall schedule for negotiations for IAM alone has only 6 more days in September. That is simply not enough time considering what little ground has been covered.

Given a choice, I bet the unions will be able to move quick. I think the IAM is waiting to see how many new members they gather. ALPA is already at the table. The stumbling block will be the F/A's... NW is going to come out with a much better structure to compete in the LCC environment.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineRhino4ever From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 146 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3368 times:

Yahoo finance a source for anything????  Sad

User currently offlineLegendDC9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3296 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 14):
It looks like NW won this round. I'm betting the IAM will represent the temp mechanics hired on permanently at the hubs as there is no way the AMFA is going to accept the new offer.

Why is it so certain that the IAM will jump in represent the new mechanics? Why would they vote in a union at all? Did they just forget how one stupid union's moves got them these jobs in the first place? Then they are going to turn around and bring in another cancer like IAM? Gotta be smart, no union, no categorization, no one solution.


User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3285 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 14):
Given a choice, I bet the unions will be able to move quick. I think the IAM is waiting to see how many new members they gather. ALPA is already at the table. The stumbling block will be the F/A's... NW is going to come out with a much better structure to compete in the LCC environment.

That's my opinion as well, I think NWA is making some hard but very well thought out business decisions that will help it become viable in the longterm.

Quoting LegendDC9 (Reply 16):
Why is it so certain that the IAM will jump in represent the new mechanics?

I guess it may be a possibility but most likely they will join a union and IAM will be the one they join. IAM used to rep NWA mechs but AMFA came in and made a bunch of promises that sound good but in reality were too good becuase they couldn't fulfill them. I personally wouldn't want to join a union but you choose the profession and in Minnesota you don't have much of a choice do you?


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13551 posts, RR: 100
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3228 times:
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Quoting LegendDC9 (Reply 16):
Why is it so certain that the IAM will jump in represent the new mechanics? Why would they vote in a union at all? Did they just forget how one stupid union's moves got them these jobs in the first place? Then they are going to turn around and bring in another cancer like IAM? Gotta be smart, no union, no categorization, no one solution.

Do I think NW wants a union? No. But lets think this through:
1. The IAM is going to give concessions and possible staffing cuts (read, cut in union dues due to fewer members). They'll want something in "return for concessions." New union members will help make the union management happy. It also gives a block of new voters likely to go along with the contract.
2. 800 jobs already transferring to IAM (union happy to get some dues back)
3. NW will get the rights to outsource quite a high fraction of the mechanics work.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3211 times:

My heart goes out to the replacement mechanics. I hope they get permanent jobs and I hope they are smart enough to stay out of the mafia/unions. Then I hope the striking workers learn the lessons of their mistakes and go on to find good non-union jobs elsewhere. That would be the best solution for the workers, for NW, for the shareholders, for passengers, and for the economy at large. Only the mafia loses.

Mafia control over labor has been declining for a long time in the States, as evidenced by the declining number of union members. The airline industry has been one of the last bastions where the mafia has retained control of labor. Perhaps this will be the beginning of freedom for labor in the airline industry.


User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3164 times:

where is the savior burnsie28 to save us any more heart ache and let us know what is going on at the house of doug......come on chris...fill us in......


bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineDl757md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3147 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 18):
1. The IAM is going to give concessions and possible staffing cuts (read, cut in union dues due to fewer members). They'll want something in "return for concessions." New union members will help make the union management happy. It also gives a block of new voters likely to go along with the contract.
2. 800 jobs already transferring to IAM (union happy to get some dues back)
3. NW will get the rights to outsource quite a high fraction of the mechanics work.

It's not up to NWA whether the replacement mechs would become part of any union if they become permanent. Workers must vote in a union. I highly doubt that if they do get to the point that they are faced with the decision on whether to vote in a union that they will be seriously considering the IAM. At least not if they go back and look at what that union did for NWA mechs in the 90s.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 17):
IAM used to rep NWA mechs but AMFA came in and made a bunch of promises that sound good but in reality were too good because they couldn't fulfill them. I personally wouldn't want to join a union but you choose the profession and in Minnesota you don't have much of a choice do you?

Air Ryan I'll ask you this again. Please show me something concrete (other than what you've read in a forum) that backs up your contention that AMFA made a bunch of promises they couldn't fulfill. Also, in MN if you don't vote in a union in the first place you don't have any union to unwillingly join now do you. As I said it will be up to the scabs to vote in a union if they get permanent positions.

Dl757Md



757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
User currently offlineShenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1712 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3139 times:

S&P Downgrades Northwest As Labor Troubles Continue

The Wall Street Journal   09/07/05

author: Amy Merrick

(Copyright (c) 2005, Dow Jones & Company, Inc.)


As post-Katrina fuel prices complicate the efforts of Northwest Airlines to
avoid a bankruptcy-court filing, Standard & Poor's cut the carrier's credit
ratings further into junk territory and said they could fall even more.



"Northwest is managing through a strike by its mechanics well, but dramatically
increased fuel expense and delays in securing needed concessions from other
unions have deepened losses and are eroding its liquidity," S&P credit analyst
Philip Baggaley wrote in his report.



"Northwest will file for bankruptcy protection if new labor agreements are not
agreed upon in the near future," Mr. Baggaley said, but he added, "but only the
pilot talks appear to be making material progress."



The ratings firm cut Northwest to Triple-C- from Triple-C+. Northwest's rating
already held high-yield, or "junk," status. Northwest declined to comment on the
move.



The airline has said rising fuel costs are forcing it to request greater labor
concessions and to decide more quickly whether to file for bankruptcy-law
protection. Northwest said it now expects fuel expenses for this year to
increase more than 50% over 2004, to $3.3 billion.



Northwest, based in St. Paul, Minn., also has been dealing with a strike by its
4,400 mechanics and cleaners represented by the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal
Association, who walked off the job Aug. 20. The airline has continued flying
with replacement workers, managers and outside contractors handling maintenance.



Yesterday the airline said its on-time performance Monday was above 80% -- its
highest level since the strike began -- and its cancellation rate was about 1%,
its lowest level since the strike began.



Although AMFA members rallied at Labor Day parades, the Web site for the union's
Local 33, based in Minneapolis, has begun posting a list of available jobs at
rival airlines and in other industries.



Concerned that a Chapter 11 filing would wipe out Northwest's pensions, leaders
of the pilots union voted last week to reopen contract negotiations with the
company.



Meanwhile, the Federal Aviation Administration is investigating the complaints
of one of its inspectors, who was temporarily reassigned from his work at
Northwest. The inspector alleged that about 470 FAA reports on the airline's
maintenance, spanning 11 days, weren't entered into an electronic database,
enabling Northwest to avoid closer scrutiny.



A letter spelling out the allegations, sent to the FAA by Sen. Mark Dayton, a
Minnesota Democrat, claimed 58% to 90% of the inspector reports cited defects,
compared with a defect rate of 3% to 5% for Northwest before the strike.
According to the letter, a 9% defect rate would trigger an
internal FAA alert
. Northwest said it is in contact with regulators about
the allegations.



User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3080 times:

Northwest Airlines will resume talks with striking mechanics,

deeper cuts sought..

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...832409.story?coll=chi-business-hed

 box 


User currently offlineSupa7e7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3043 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 19):
Mafia control over labor has been declining for a long time in the States, as evidenced by the declining number of union members.

Yes but sadly the Mafia still controls our public schools through an organization called NEA, the nation's most powerful union.

The Mafia also controls a number of government-sector workers whose employer lacks the crucial ability to declare bankruptcy. It's an infinite gravy train for them.


25 Post contains links KarlB737 : Courtesy: WCCO-TV Video Report Included http://www.wcco.com/strike --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Courtes
26 AirRyan : ETOPS is a joke - what makes one A330 any different from another? If nonetheless as evident by the strike and the way NWA mangament has been able to
27 Planefreakaa : do you even know what etops is, i doubt you do. etops is serious stuff to the FAA, if you have a problem with a system one too many times, the FAA wi
28 Flanker : They dont even deserve a job. a Disgrace.
29 Post contains links Beefer : NWA, mechanics continue to talk http://www.startribune.com/stories/1778/5604269.html Jeff Matthews, a negotiator with the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal
30 Aviationwiz : Why a union would represent scabs is beyond me. Did I miss something? Did AMFA all of a sudden turn to violence? When did they kill Steenland? Man, s
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