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TAM Closer To Skyteam  
User currently offlineSkyteam2000 From Spain, joined Apr 2004, 71 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3428 times:

TAM getting closer to Skyteam.
New agreement with AF and KL soon to sign. Why not to see in TAM like associate member?
Good deal for this great airline.

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33285 posts, RR: 71
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3412 times:

Quoting Skyteam2000 (Thread starter):
TAM getting closer to Skyteam.
New agreement with AF and KL soon to sign. Why not to see in TAM like associate member?
Good deal for this great airline.

It doesn't mean much. TAM is close to AA and recently started a new agreement with JAL.



a.
User currently offlineSkyteam2000 From Spain, joined Apr 2004, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3384 times:

Skyteam gives more gateways to TAM than AA and oneworld.
DL/CO/NW are open to the deal. TAM gets news plane soon ( airbus 330) and AF/KL/AZ can help for new markets in Europe.
Future of TAM is to increase international routes get Brazil second mayor international airline TAM is already major airline within Brazil.


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8976 posts, RR: 39
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3332 times:

AF is signing a deal with GOL to concentrate more on GIG flights (GOL also signed a deal with DL) and is reducing the JJ agreement. Also, AZ currently codeshares with RG.

JJ is closer to AA than to AF.

Cheers



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3270 times:

Not gonna happen. The new agreement with AF will be on a reduced scale compared to the previous one. As said, it is currently more likely that GOL will become the Brazilian partner for Skyteam, with AF having already signed an agreement with them, and DL being about to sign it (they haven't yet, have they?). Plus CO is also rumored to be interested in a cooperation with GOL.

User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2661 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3190 times:

Quoting Skyteam2000 (Thread starter):
New agreement with AF and KL soon to sign. Why not to see in TAM like associate member?

I would see associate membership unlikely. TAM flies to three continents.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 4):
As said, it is currently more likely that GOL will become the Brazilian partner for Skyteam, with AF having already signed an agreement with them,

Seems like a better fit.



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineErikwilliam From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 2152 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3106 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 4):
Plus CO is also rumored to be interested in a cooperation with GOL

and you can pretty much say that is going to happen, since GOL has just signed a code share with COPA, and they do have, let´s say, a close relationship.

JJ is more likely to sign with One than with Sky.



Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
User currently offlineHEGAN From Spain, joined Feb 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3059 times:

It would be nice if in a couple of years we could see

- Varig with Star
- TAM with OneWorld
- GOL with Sky

It would mean a consolidation in the Brazilian market.
Nowadays only RG has a strong commitment with an alliance. The others have agreements with airlines members of an alliance, but in the past we have seen that many of these agreements are broken quite easily to set up new ones.

Agur,
Hegan



HEGAN: Euskadiko Aeronautikako eta Espazioko Clusterra
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7428 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3053 times:

Quoting Skyteam2000 (Thread starter):
New agreement with AF and KL soon to sign

Well, actually, the codeshare agreementAF/JJ ended recently and was not renwed.
As mentionned above, AF is close to a major cooperation agreement with GOL (part of this cooperation has already been signed).

AF needed TAM is the past to offer more capacity on the CDG-GRU route as AF was unable to add frequencies, which is not the case anymore.

With a new bi-lateral agreement, AF is now adding 3 x Weekly CDG-GRU-CDG (A332 - starting next winter) to the already existing nonstop Daily service (B772ER) and aims at offering a 2 x Daily CDG-GRU within the next two years.

So, personnaly, I would rather re-name your Topic " TAM is getting farther away from Skyteam "


User currently offlineIB787 From Spain, joined Jun 2005, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3016 times:

I see TAM closer to ow than to SkyTeam. TAM is a great airline and it would be great to see them in OW.

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2952 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Furthermore, nowadays JJ customers do not receive miles on AF CDG-GRU flights (also AF do not on JJ flights CDG-GRU). JJ is far from Sky and closer to OneWorld. KLM/JJ code-share is only to connect KLM pax to some destinations in Brazil. One day Gol will be stronger on GRU and probably AF/KLM will choose them!

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 8):
Well, actually, the codeshare agreementAF/JJ ended recently and was not renwed.
As mentionned above, AF is close to a major cooperation agreement with GOL (part of this cooperation has already been signed).

Also, just looking forward, Gol will add 11 new flights from GIG (many of them early morning departures for BSB, CNF and also POA).

Quoting Skyteam2000 (Reply 2):
DL/CO/NW are open to the deal. TAM gets news plane soon ( airbus 330) and AF/KL/AZ can help for new markets in Europe.

Germany and Portugal are Star bases (LH/TP), Spain and England - One World (IB and BA), Italy is well served by Alitalia and Varig (as PPVRA mentioned they keep a code-share), Netherlands keeps KLM service and France is also well served by JJ,AF and RG flights. I can't see a new Europe market for JJ in the short term, that's why they decide to go to New York (JFK) and probably they will try to improve MIA operations IMO. Also, Tam has already requested more 3 frequencies to CDG (probably to run a daily light CDG-REC-GRU).

Rgds,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLamedianaranja From Venezuela, joined Nov 2004, 1246 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2930 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
KLM/JJ code-share is only to connect KLM pax to some destinations in Brazil.

KL uses JJ mainly for the connection to EZE after she gave up that destination.

I'm sure SkyTeam would roll out the red carpet for TAM if it applies for joining  Wink



I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8976 posts, RR: 39
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2891 times:

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 11):

KL uses JJ mainly for the connection to EZE after she gave up that destination.

Yup, that was the mainpoint when they announced the agreement.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
Also, just looking forward, Gol will add 11 new flights from GIG (many of them early morning departures for BSB, CNF and also POA).

I bet that that, and the recent speeding up of the B737 deliveries (11 are expected for 2006, up from 6) has to do with AF/GOL (probably DL also) and GIG service expansion.

Cheers

[Edited 2005-09-08 21:46:06]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineJJMNGR From Brazil, joined May 2004, 1018 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2861 times:

Guys,

Still many speculations about to where JJ will go in terms of alliances...all considerations here are ok and valid, but be sure...nothing is already decided, nor being discussed yet.


User currently offlineBSBIsland From Brazil, joined Jul 2005, 379 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2850 times:

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 13):
Guys,

Still many speculations about to where JJ will go in terms of alliances...all considerations here are ok and valid, but be sure...nothing is already decided, nor being discussed yet.

A agree, but this forum is all about speculation, that´s the fun here.


User currently offlineSkyteam2000 From Spain, joined Apr 2004, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2794 times:

Sorry but TAM broke the strong relation JJ/AF then when to see GOL, and now JJ reacted. You will see soon new agreement to sign. AF keep GOL for GIG conx. GOL is good but more like lowcost TAM can give more quality standar to Skyteam and ofcourse One World but now is closer to Skyteam.
Wait and see...


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2720 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Skyteam2000 (Reply 15):
Sorry but TAM broke the strong relation JJ/AF then when to see GOL, and now JJ reacted. You will see soon new agreement to sign. AF keep GOL for GIG conx. GOL is good but more like lowcost TAM can give more quality standar to Skyteam and ofcourse One World but now is closer to Skyteam.
Wait and see...

Skyteam2000, domestic service in Brazil nowadays are quite just the same. You can fly Tam and for lunch you will receive as much as Gol and Varig offers. Also Varig has dropped their domestic executive class in favor of more economy seats. The only diference is the brand as the FF will be AF/KLM one.

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 11):
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
KLM/JJ code-share is only to connect KLM pax to some destinations in Brazil.

KL uses JJ mainly for the connection to EZE after she gave up that destination.

Thanks, i forget about this issue.

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 11):
I'm sure SkyTeam would roll out the red carpet for TAM if it applies for joining

Agree 100%

Quoting BSBIsland (Reply 14):
agree, but this forum is all about speculation, that´s the fun here.

VERY good point!

Rgds,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2694 times:

TAM is evidently awaiting VARIG outcome to take measures regarding joining any Alliance. No more to add.

And, taking into account how TAM prays distressingly for VARIG to collapse, their dream (JJ) must be joining Star Alliance, if VARIG goes bankrupt. They would be in heaven then.

Skyteam, TAM have set agreement with Taca, AA, JAL, MEA, AF, KL, LX, VARIG (!!), Total... This means nothing. The fact that AF-KL is a SkyTeam member, definitely doesn't mean they are closer to SkyT.

They are close to none alliance. Having a close relationship with AA doesn't mean anything either: they don't with LA, BA, IB...

AZ, DL, AM (+AF/KL) chose whether RG or GOL to code-share instead of TAM.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 16):
domestic service in Brazil nowadays are quite just the same. You can fly Tam and for lunch you will receive as much as Gol and Varig offers.

I personally don't see anything special with TAM in routes other than their shuttle links from CGH and their Int'l routes. The rest is a crap, GOL is way better with their peanut packs.



Varig, Varig, Varig
User currently offlineIB787 From Spain, joined Jun 2005, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2565 times:

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 17):
They are close to none alliance. Having a close relationship with AA doesn't mean anything either: they don't with LA, BA, IB...

Sorry but TAM does have a relationship with IB in their flights GRU-MDZ and GRU-MVD (operated by TAM with IB code)


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2556 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting IB787 (Reply 18):
Sorry but TAM does have a relationship with IB in their flights GRU-MDZ and GRU-MVD (operated by TAM with IB code)

Its not Tam flights, but Tam Mercosur, a subsidiary of TAM (with code PZ). They keep for example code-shares with RG, PU, AR and others.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineArcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2411 posts, RR: 23
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2489 times:

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 17):
They are close to none alliance. Having a close relationship with AA doesn't mean anything either: they don't with LA, BA, IB...

PZ also has a codeshare with LA for SCL-ASU flights, after LAN dropped former UC's Asuncion destination.

Regards )(



in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2494 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Seems that all airliners dropped ASU flights and Tam Mercosur win the pot  Smile
RG, PU, AR, LA, JJ (Brazil, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina...), probably Tam is very happy with this (and they keep 7 F100 on PZ routes, aircrafts that nowadays that expect to replace with E-Jets).

Guys, do you expect e-jets on PZ also ?

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8976 posts, RR: 39
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2405 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 21):

Guys, do you expect e-jets on PZ also ?

I will first wait to see JJ order some. If they do, due to fleet commonality, I see that PZ will most likely get some also.

Cheers



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 763 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2419 times:

Hey guys... It's nothing to do with codeshare partners or FF partners...

Take a look to Malev

Codeshares with
Air Europa and Tarom, new associate airliners for SkyTeam, KLM, NW, Air France, CSA and Alitalia and the some-day-i-will-join airline Aeroflot

and a couple of months ago, i read atonished that Malev is joining Oneworld because of its close relationship with Finnair.... close relationships my a**!!

If there are 3 carriers in Brazil, i see one to each alliance. unless one of them gets swallowed by LAN and becomes "LAN affiliate LAN Brazil NOT member of oneworld"  Smile


User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2358 times:

So I have to ask how far goes PZ - JJ relationship. Any clues?

Aisak,
Perferct real life example, Malév!!! Gracias.

[Edited 2005-09-11 09:34:34]


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