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TSA At JFK  
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7817 posts, RR: 3
Posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2134 times:

I flew out of JFK last night with AA, and flew that I need to comment on the TSA.

Firstly, the good news. They seem to be doing a reasonable screening job although the layout of the screening area could be improved with better signposting.

Then the bad news.

I was passing through Terminal 8 heading for AA116 outbound. After I passed the TSA area going towards gate 10, I saw a group of passengers getting off an AA aircraft at gate 4 or 6. These people passed straight of a TSA staffer, who seemed to be stting taking a break in the gate area, they then continued towards the arrivals area.

The point is that these passengers were then mixing with passengers from a flight who had passed through TSA and would go straight onto the aircraft with no further checking.

I have always understood that it is a basic principle of airport security that you do not mix incoming and outgoing passengers airside.

Am I missing something here.

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMarshalN From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2126 times:

I think for American domestic flight they don't care -- pax share the same terminal and go in/out the same way. It is only on international flights that it matters.

User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7817 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2122 times:

I understood that Terminal 8 was international only.

Besides, there was nothing to stop someone on that flight passing something to me which I could then take to LHR.


User currently offlineMarshalN From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2101 times:

Hmmm, you're right. Sorry, I don't have the flight numbers memorized. Since you were flying out to LHR -- yeah, that would be extremely bad form. Usually the pathways for entering/exiting are separate and often alarms will sound if someone goes through the wrong door. I wonder why this wasn't the case... hmmm

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9836 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2100 times:

I had trouble understanding what you wrote, but this is what I believe should happen. In the United States it doesn't matter if passengers from incoming our outgoing flights mix. If you are in the secured area then you passed through TSA screening somewhere within the United States at least once which is all you need. The flight you saw deplaning must have been a domestic flight since passengers from international flights do not mix with other passengers. International passengers go straight to immigration unlike in other countries and then must be rescreened before entering the gate area again. International and domestic flights depart side by side at many airports in the United States with no different security procedures.

If I understand what you are saying, then nothing wrong happened at all if the passengers were from a domestic flight and just walked into the terminal.

Quoting Bennett123 (Thread starter):
I have always understood that it is a basic principle of airport security that you do not mix incoming and outgoing passengers airside.

This is certainly not true for domestic flights within the United States. For international arriving flights it is a different situation.

[Edited 2005-09-08 19:31:03]


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7817 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2093 times:

MY understanding is that Terminal 8 is International only.

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9836 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2080 times:

Does American operate any international fights out of Terminal 8 that are from preclearance airports so that passengers would not need to go through immigration? Or does American use gates at terminal 8 occasionally for domestic traffic?

[Edited 2005-09-08 19:38:19]


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2075 times:

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 5):
MY understanding is that Terminal 8 is International only.

interesting...I took AA Flight 116 just a few weeks ago.....I didn't notice the same thing (came on a connecting flight from DFW)......the TSA lines different and there didn't seem to be any "mixing"..



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineAirafriqueDKR From United States of America, joined May 2001, 392 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2048 times:

Last night AA178 from SFO arrived at gate 6 and AA952 from MIA arrived at gate 3.

User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2692 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2008 times:

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 2):
Besides, there was nothing to stop someone on that flight passing something to me which I could then take to LHR.

It's not really an issue - the people coming off of that flight were screened by the TSA wherever they departed from, so therefore there couldn't be any contraband items that they could hand you.


User currently offlineMikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1965 times:

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 9):
It's not really an issue - the people coming off of that flight were screened by the TSA wherever they departed from, so therefore there couldn't be any contraband items that they could hand you.

Exactly. I don't understand the problem in regards to security (TSA). Incoming pax (that haven't left the secured area) are just as secure as outgoing pax that have already been screened.

Mike


User currently offlineJFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3633 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1948 times:

T8 is for Int'l flights on AA plus MIA departures.

Also, many domestic flights arrive there if that plane is due to continue to an int'l destination. I arroved there from MCO many times when they used to fly that route.

PJ


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16908 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1919 times:

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 11):
Also, many domestic flights arrive there if that plane is due to continue to an int'l destination. I arroved there from MCO many times when they used to fly that route.

Did AA ever fly to MCO from JFK, if they did it must have been a very brief period during the TWA transition.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineIRelayer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1073 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1912 times:

I don't understand the point of this post. At a terminal there are arrivals and departures. Arriving and departing PAX mix all the time. ??? Unless you are talking about International...but International flights go through customs immediately unless they have been pre-screened.

-IR


User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7817 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1815 times:

The point that I am making is that arriving passengers go through the gate area and then to the TSA. In that case the passengers de planing (who were still in the gate area) have not yet been checked, the TSA do not know what they are carrying.

At the point that I am standing in, I have already been checked and will not have any further security check pre boarding.

If am understanding the situation, then an unchecked passenger de planing can hand a package to a passenger who has already completed their security checks. That passenger now has a package that the TSA will never see and is about to board an international flight.

If that package was a bomb, then by the time that the bomb explodes, then the courier has long since vanished.


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9836 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1783 times:

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 14):
then an unchecked passenger de planing

All passengers deplaning have already been checked. There would be no problem if one of them turned around and boarded your flight to London (presuming they had the tickets and all). There are no additional security procedures done, so those passengers would not see a TSA member at the airport.

US airports are different than many others in the rest of the world. Many airports have security at each gate (due to the fact that different international flights have different security levels. In that situation deplaning passengers should be rechecked and not mix with outgoing passengers. However at US airports you will only see security once. You can get on one hundred consecutive domestic flights and only have passed through security once at your first airport. You can also go take an international flight after your hundred domestic ones and you won't be rechecked as the United States does not do any immigration checks or extra security procedures for outgoing passengers (airlines check passports and provide that information to the government).

What you saw was a simple connection from a domestic flight to an international flight. Everyone coming off that plane had been checked in Miami or wherever. All US airports served by the airlines are one single secured area and you never leave that secured area when you are on a domestic flight. International flights are different because passengers are taken to immigration immediately and do not mix with outgoing passengers.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineKevi747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1058 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1738 times:

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 14):
In that case the passengers de planing (who were still in the gate area) have not yet been checked, the TSA do not know what they are carrying.

 Confused  Confused  Confused

The people coming off those airplanes flew in from another city. They were checked in the airports from which they departed. What is the problem with them mixing with outbound PAX before exiting the terminal? It happens all the time at many airports. I'm trying not to make this sound condescending, but this is such a weird topic.



"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7817 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1636 times:

Clearly no cause for concern.

At every airport that I have been to before arriving and departing passengers did not mix airside.


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