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Is The Flight Engineer A Dying Profession?  
User currently offlineToering From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 176 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2801 times:

With newer airplanes coming out and using better technology, is the Flight Engineer's profession becoming a job of the past? It's my understanding that Fed Ex had MDC update all of their DC-10 cockpits (back in the 80s) to a "modern Flight Deck" if you will, to eliminate the Flight Engineer, Are other airlines following suit? What Engineer jobs will be out there in say...... 20 or even 10 years?

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2796 times:

Yes. Eventually all the three pilot aircraft will be replaced by two pilot aircraft.


Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineDALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2535 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2778 times:

Yes, the PFE is a dying breed. Many pilots are still getting the FE ground school though. It is a good training tool. It gets you familar with heavy jet systems and how to learn for a type rating.

User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2767 times:

What's a flight engineer?... Smile

User currently offlineUPS Pilot From United States of America, joined May 1999, 871 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2756 times:

Yes they are. Alot of guys over manditory retirement age go to the FE position as well. Why pay for 3 when you can now do the same with 2.

User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2723 times:

Yes - you can blame it on technology!  Smile

User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3238 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2698 times:

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 3):
What's a flight engineer?...

It's the guy who has to get out on the wing to fix the engine, if there is an in-flight shutdown.  Wink

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineTrident3 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 1013 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2695 times:

But technology is not as good at fixing the coffee machine or doing the Times crossword!


"We are the warrior race-Tough men in the toughest sport." Brian Noble, Head Coach, Great Britain Rugby League.
User currently offlineBtriple7 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1160 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2524 times:

Quoting Toering (Thread starter):
Is The Flight Engineer A Dying Profession?

It already is dead.

I can't think of any major airlines that are hiring flight engineers.

Regards,
Btriple7



Just...fly.
User currently offlineRogerThat From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 566 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2386 times:

You can thank the pilots union for killing off the FE profession. Their insistence on using pilots in the FE's seat put the nails in the coffin long before technology ever did.

2 or 3 years ago, the last 2 striper retired from AA. Last time I remember seeing one was in the early '90s on a AA DC10-30. He was flying from DFW to HNL then onto SYD.


User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6770 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2345 times:

You think the FE is a dying breed? How about another sideways flyer?


Navigator! Last flew as one in 2003 ! LOL Still needed... though not for mainline operations!

F/Es are still needed though in much smaller numbers... there are still 727s, L1011s, DC10s, 742/3s and numerous other FE required planes till flying, though in dwindling numbers... Some companies are struggling to get F/Es due to a lot of them with adequate experience are reaching their mandatory retirement age...

Who would have thought that "many" Navigators are still around...  Smile

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineRogerThat From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 566 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2326 times:

Navigators flying in the 21st century? Who'd have thunk it.

What next? Wireless operators? Morse code?


User currently offlineAfay1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1293 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

Several Antonov and Ilyushin aircraft, operated by major airlines, are coming off the line with FE positions...

User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6770 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2284 times:

RogerThat... LOL
I knew that would raise some eyebrows  Smile

The Navigator in this case would operate the master control of an automatic survey camera system, linked to an INS and DGPS with WAAS... Necessary for maintaining flight lines accurate to 25 - 50m at 7000ft and 110KIAS... The faster the easier actually, but the camera won't keep up LOL.

Navigator's function in this case is also the Mission Commander... where as long as we're not on the ground or in the take-off and approach phases, the captain can only intervene in weather and fuel aspects. (we annoyed a few capts that way... but some F/Os use us as paybacks to their Capts.)

Ever talked down your own plane using the onboard DGPS and INS below approach weather minimas? U'd loose your voice by the end of the approach and the ATC was impressed but scared to bits... I don't fancy doing that regularly again... even for Demos...

What next? Well, no plans for morse codes but we can carry a wireless (HF radio) operator sometimes...

Our AF C130s still carry navigators (map, pencil, a couple of stopwatches and a strong throat)... Needed for low level "blind flying"... Now they're a different breed altogether!

Cheers,

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
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