Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Air Madrid Developing BCN  
User currently offlineAndahuailas From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 138 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2950 times:

Air Madrid will start flying out of BCN to SCL, LIM, EZE, BOG, CTG and MEX(Toluca) non-stop. interesting that IBeria and/or Latin carrriers never developed routes to from BCN to Latin America, even thou the city has a large population and its a hub for European services. Any plans from any LAtin carriers or IB to compete ?

72 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2876 times:

I have been thinking the same thing. Air Plus Comet will start flying out of Barcelona but to China.

I thought that Iberia might start a couple of South American destinations from BCN using a A340-300. From what I have seen, please correct me if I am wrong, Iberia's routes out of MAD to the America's are very profitable. I don't know if flying the same routes as some of the ones in Madrid would be a good choice because they would possibly loose loads on the Madrid flights.

Iberia will be starting a low-cost division of the airline soon based in Barcelona and operate A320s on routes to Europe. The compition at BCN is mainly Vueling.

This is very much in my opion, I have noticed that in the states some people when they here Spain only think Barcelona.
I lived in Madrid this past year and I found it to be an amazing city! There is a lot to do and things to see. I have also been to Barcelona four times and find that the city is kind of dirty compared to Madrid, the city is run by a younger crowd, and people only go for the beach and Gaudí.

If passengers flying from the America's to Madrid want to go to Barcelona it is really simple, you can take the Puente Aero offered by four airlines with many flights a day at cheap prices.

It would not make much sense for Iberia to start flights out of Barcelona to the America's because they already have a strong international network out of Madrid and they would end up loosing loads on those flights as well as on the Puente Aero.

Again this post was written in my personal opion.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Javier Guerrero




No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2877 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Andahuailas,
I think BCN keeps the same situation as Rio de Janeiro. Very close to another important city (Madrid and Sao Paulo) with a good shuttle service (in fact both SDU-CGH and MAD-BCN are probably very strong operations), so several airliners will run MAD and not BCN. How about US-BCN service ?
Air Madrid could be very smart in this move as BCN is an important destination.
In Brazil there are no plans to fly BCN (RG in fact is using a single aircraft on GRU-MAD-GRU and PU runs the MVD-GIG-MAD with only one aircraft too).
But a BCN-GRU flight three times per week probably could be interesting. JJ is looking for RG situation and could start a new route next year when they will receive 2 A332 back from Etihad.
Probably spanish latin america keeps more demand for a BCN flight.

Regards
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32783 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2859 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 2):
How about US-BCN service ?

USAirways and Delta fly to Barcelona, and there has always been the consistent rumours that AA is coming. They announced BCN in 2003, but it never started.



a.
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2852 times:

I can definitely see MIA-BCN even if it's only seasonal.

User currently offlineLxsaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Feb 2004, 325 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2842 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 2):
Probably spanish latin america keeps more demand for a BCN flight.

Yes , you're right. Recently AR announced the starting of a new twice weekly service on the EZE-BCN route. I suppose that Aerolineas Argentinas is the first (and unique at the moment) latin american carrier to reach directly BCN.
Note that AR only flies to Madrid and Rome in Europe , so the Barcelona flight comes before London , Paris , Frankfurt , Amsterdam.....and other important european cities etc

AR starts to fly to BCN on 4th Oct '05 with A342

Bye

[Edited 2005-09-09 18:33:20]

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32783 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2818 times:

Quoting Lxsaab2000 (Reply 5):
that Aerolineas Argentinas is the first (and unique at the moment) latin american carrier to reach directly BCN.

Cubana flies to Barcelona seasonally; has for years.



a.
User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2794 times:

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 1):
Iberia will be starting a low-cost division

Even though a few things have been said and a probable name has been mentioned, the truth is that nothing more has been announced. It doesn't seem to be taken seriously at the moment.

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 1):
The compition at BCN is mainly Vueling

Well...actually Vueling may not be a competitor. On the contrary, they could become the new IB low cost division.

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 1):
I have noticed that in the states some people when they here Spain only think Barcelona.

It happened to me several times that they also thought Mexico when I said I was from Spain.

I think it's a good idea that Air Madrid plans to start those flights from BCN. However, I don't think the airline is ready for it.

They want to do a lot more than they actually can and this is creating them a very bad image. If one aircraft goes tech, the entire route network suffers the consequences, as happened during this summer and has also happened since the airline started operations. They don't have enough aircraft...as simple as that.



¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2787 times:

NM is a real shame of airline. Is like FR but even worse. It is a long-haul "Low cost" pretty mediocre. You must paying 20€ if you wish having a meal ...is the first airline which meals are NOT free on long-haul flights. Sometimes they have more than 30 hours in flights delayed due to is very difficult serving a lot of destinations with 3 planes. Last month, passengers had a week in Manaus as an engine had a mechanical failure during a LIM-MAD flight. Just with 3 or 4 planes they want flying to entire LatinAmerica serving more than 12 destinations. And now, they want starting operations from BCN ...no comment

What can you expect from an airline which have a plane with First, Business and Coach Class ....another plane with "Business" and Coach Class ...and now they are thinking in having another plane ...with all-Economy Class  knockout 

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 1):
It would not make much sense for Iberia to start flights out of Barcelona to the America's because they already have a strong international network out of Madrid and they would end up loosing loads on those flights as well as on the Puente Aero.

I totally agree with you.

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 1):
I lived in Madrid this past year and I found it to be an amazing city! There is a lot to do and things to see. I have also been to Barcelona four times and find that the city is kind of dirty compared to Madrid

Agree again Big grin ...by the way. How is your Spanish at the moment? ¿dónde estás ahora? Are you at the States at the moment?


User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2753 times:

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 8):
Agree again Big grin ...by the way. How is your Spanish at the moment? ¿dónde estás ahora? Are you at the States at the moment?

Mi español está bien, puedo entender más entonces que puedo hablar.
¡Estoy en Nueva York ahora, yo volví en el 3 de agosto y yo hecho falta España terriblemente!

English -
My spanish is OK, I can understand more then I can speak.
I am in New York now, I got back on August 3rd and I miss Spain terribly!



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2748 times:

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 8):
Last month, passengers had a week in Manaus

Erm....actually it was not a week, but 4 days.

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 8):
You must paying 20€ if you wish having a meal

€8,00 for breakfast (Orange Juice, and ham & cheese Brioche, Coffee or Tea, Yoghurt & Oreo biscuits).

€12,00 for a cold meal (box composed of a sandwich of your choice of different varieties, Isabel Salad, Dessert, Coffee or Tea & a canned drink your choice).

€15,00 for a hot meal (hot option composed of a Curried Chicken & Rice entree and an Isabel Salad, Dessert & Coffee or Tea. To drink you can choose between wine or any other canned drink).

€5,00 for a snack (Pringle's Potatoes a Nestle Fruits Chocolat Bar & a canned drink of your choice).

Take a look for yourselves: http://www.airmadrid.com/restaurante1.do



¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2720 times:

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 9):
I am in New York now, I got back on August 3rd and I miss Spain terribly!

Vas a regresar, entonces?  Wink By the way ...Its pretty nice that you keep the Spanish flag

Alfonso ...my moral principles prevent going to Air Madrids web-page Big grin


User currently offlineN506CR From Costa Rica, joined Nov 2004, 147 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2713 times:

It's been said there is interest from some European carriers (including Air Madrid and IB) to begin trans-atlantic service to LIR in NW Costa Rica. BCN sounds like a good option. Seasonal service maybe?
Is it possible for Air Madrid to fly this route?? What about SJO?

Btw, when will we see Air Madrid A340 at SJO???

Just wondering...
_A


User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2705 times:

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 11):
my moral principles prevent going to Air Madrids web-page

Yes I am pretty aware of that, but you have to admit that Iberia is not the only airline in this world 

[Edited 2005-09-09 19:53:04]


¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2696 times:

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 13):
but remember...Iberia is not the only airline in this world

hahaha ...true, true, fortunatelly there is AF, LA and CX among others fine airlines  Wink


User currently offlineDFORCE1 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 505 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2686 times:

Does any airline currently operate routes between Spain and Canada?

User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2679 times:

Quoting DFORCE1 (Reply 15):
Does any airline currently operate routes between Spain and Canada?

Yes, Air Plus with A-310, but just as a charter flight.


User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2672 times:

Quoting DFORCE1 (Reply 15):
Does any airline currently operate routes between Spain and Canada?

Nope, Iberia has in the past and Air Canada has also.

Quote:
Vas a regresar, entonces? Wink By the way ...Its pretty nice that you keep the Spanish flag

I will deffitenly come visit Spain because I love it soo much! I think I am going to Spain for three Weeks at the end of June. I was debating whether or not to keep the Spanish flag but in the end I did because I love it so much!

[Edited 2005-09-09 20:09:37]


No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2663 times:

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 17):
I was debating wether or not to keep the spanish flag but in the end I did because I love it so much!

Well done, AZMD11. In addition to there are many many US-flags already in a.net ...Variety is a good thing.


User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2658 times:

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 17):
I was debating whether or not to keep the Spanish flag but in the end I did because I love it so much!

Don't say it too loud...the majority of "modern" Spaniards will say you're a "facha" or that you still live in the past (talk about a tolerant society).

It's nice to see that a foreign person loves Spain so much since most of the Spaniards don't give a sh*t about this country (I'm not one of those).

[Edited 2005-09-09 20:19:49]


¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlineIberiaA319 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 574 posts, RR: 38
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2652 times:

NM (Air Madrid) has currently 5 planes, correct me if I'm wrong:

SE-RBG Airbus A330-223 wet-leased from Novair
EC-JIS Airbus A340-312 (ex Air France F-GLZB). This aircraft has PTVs in Economy
EC-IYB Airbus A330-202 (ex Canada 3000 C-GGWA, ex Volare Airlines I-VLEC)
EC-IYN Airbus A330-202 (ex Canada 3000 C-GGWB, ex Volare Airlines I-VLED)
D-AIDH Airbus A310 (ex Lufthansa)

Wow, what a mixture!!!!

Last month I travelled on EC-IYB back from San José de Costa Rica and there are still many signs in Italian (because it was previously operated by Volare Airlines)

Will they add more planes? Is this fleet enough for their growing network?


User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2641 times:

Hola Eric!

How was your experience with Air Madrid? Are the cockpit crews Spanish or are they still foreign? How was the service? Load factor?

Facts about NM are still uncertain for most of us. We have little or no info about how the airline is doing.

Btw I'm not sure if SE-RBG has already joined the fleet or if it's still pending.

[Edited 2005-09-09 20:34:06]


¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlineIberiaA319 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 574 posts, RR: 38
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2628 times:

Hola Alfonso,

yes, we had a foreign cockpit crew, I think the captain had a Portuguese accent, maybe I'm wrong.

The cabin crew was Spanish (quite pleasant).

There were no empty seats back from SJO. The service was standard LCC. I was sitting in row 33, which is the row close to the emergency exit, so I had a lot of space (better for me because I'm 1.82 metres tall). I had a pleasant chat with a flight attendant.

[Edited 2005-09-09 20:42:36]

User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2620 times:

Air Madrid was sopposed to get the A330-300 that Air Algerie operates, F-OMSA, for the summer but that has not happend yet.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Laurent Arsac


Instead I guess they leased SE-RBG.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jay Selman



My friend recently flew MAD-SCL-MAD on Air Madrid, EC-JIS, and she said that the interior is still in Air France's interior with the PTVs. According to her the IFE program is only in Spanish which she wasn't to happy with, she is a fluent spanish and english speaker but she prefers english.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Luis Tena Orozco
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Luis Tena Orozco



I am curious is this Air Madrid's signature interior? Or was this a former Canada 3000 interior?

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © José Ramón Valero - Iberian Spotters




No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2571 times:

Quoting IberiaA319 (Reply 22):
The service was standard LCC

That is, not very good ...thats not?
IberiaA319 ...Could you back to fly Air Madrid again or do you prefer a "decent" airline?


25 IberiaA319 : Hi Anxebla, The service onboard was ok, it's just what I had expected. The cabin crew was friendly, but you have to pay for everything in economy, yo
26 Anxebla : ONLY 4 HOURS delayed ....guau ...happy, aren't you?? NM wants advertising for free of charge on the TVs channel; how to get it?? Appearing on the New
27 Airlineslover : Guys, give to NM a break.... is a new airline and of course at the begining is not so easy start in an excellent development.... I had a lot of times
28 Anxebla : NO. Obviusly IB is not CX or AF, but IB is not a mediocre airline. NM is. So, it is unfair saying IB and NM is the same ...totally unfair. If you wan
29 Mandala499 : While My Castellano and Catalan are equally dismal (though enough to give Barcelona & Tarragona taxi drivers a shock into giving me discounts)... I fi
30 Post contains images Airlineslover : Of course IB is not CX or AF and I'm always flying on AM flight since 1990... but considering a lot of points for named or call an airline MEDIOCRE is
31 Arcano : Actully it could be, why competing offering the exact same product when you can make a change and avoid competition pressure? I don't say that this i
32 Post contains images Anxebla : no comment If some day NM is a "great" airline DL will be the next A-340 customer, then
33 Anxebla : Ok, and you know perfectly that I do NOT like that IB policy. But paying by meals on LONG-HAUL flights is a real deception as you are paying for your
34 Airlineslover : Or Iberia's F/A will be the nicest girls on air in the hole world ....... :O
35 Airlineslover : I didn't know that IB is selling meals on European flights..... NO COMMENT.... but if is a LCC like NM they can charge even for a glass of water.... s
36 Anxebla : ...I know on intra-European flights you also pay the fare, but there is not need to eat in a 2-hours flight. Another matter is a 10-hours flight.
37 Arcano : it's not a matter of needs, it's a matter of image...
38 Post contains images Anxebla : Yes, I do agree with you ...totally agree
39 Airlineslover : But is a LCC... what do you want? You can prepare a bag with some thing to eat during the flight even people who fly in not LCC sometimes make an extr
40 Post contains links and images AlitaliaMD11 : The homepage of Air Madrid is showing Emirates first class seats! View Large View MediumPhoto © Craig Murray
41 IBERIA747 : Andrés, Give it a break, pal. You can become really annoying when you don't like something without having even tried it. Why is not possible for Air
42 IB787 : In fact, flights BCN-EZE and BCN-SCL will stop in TFN; LIM, TLC, and BOG/CTG will be indeed non-stop flights (1/w flight). I have never flown NM but
43 Summa767 : I do think that NM are being very ambitious with their scheduling, and should introduce some slack to improve punctuality. But I do think that they h
44 IB787 : The flights of NM for this winter season will be MAD-SJO-PTY-MAD (2/w THU and SUN) MAD-BOG-CTG-MAD (2/w TUE and FRI) MAD-UIO-GYE-MAD (2/w TUE and SAT)
45 IBERIA747 : I completely agree with you, Summa767. I admit that between IB and NM, IB is clearly my favourite...but it doesn't mean that I won't give NM a chance
46 IB787 : Oh, I didn't know that, which routes exactly?
47 IBERIA747 : They have been codesharing on the UIO flights during this summer. Don't know if there are more destiantions or if the codeshare agreement will go bey
48 Post contains images AlitaliaMD11 : I very much agree with IBERIA747. Iberia deffitenly has its own share of problems even though it is a much more major airline then Air Madrid. The two
49 Post contains images Anxebla : It is true IB had specific problems with delays ...just like any another "decent" airline. But Its very very strange to find in IB, AF, LH, BA, LA ..
50 Post contains images N62NA : I sure could have used that 2 weeks ago when I flew: MIA-BOS-LHR-AMS-BCN-AMS-LHR-BOS-MIA for my vacation! (Yeah, I did stop and meet friends in most
51 AlitaliaMD11 : N62NA You could have flown MIA-MAD-BCN on Iberia and probably on the A340-600! (If you didn't plan to meet friends)[Edited 2005-09-10 20:14:47]
52 Anxebla : If that is true, it show how they are losing credibility ...starting on the fact they only have one plane with "First Class". hahahahaha ....this "ai
53 AlitaliaMD11 : None of their A330s or A340 came from Emirates so they would not have had the interior.
54 Post contains images Legacy135 : Would be no surprise to me, if they just were putting a picture on their homepage, stolen from the Emirates page. Something like this is called a "Mi
55 Post contains images IBERIA747 : Please explain what a "decent" airline is for you. What happened recently in the UK with BA? Shit happens dude, whether you like it or not. I just do
56 EddieDude : I am very surprised that NM is going to fly BCN-TLC later this year. I don't know if this will accelerate or simply put a sour end to AM's plans to op
57 Bullpitt : Hi all Just a few thoughts on the subject of NM. I predicted they would not last the summer and they seem to prove me wrong We'll see what happens in
58 Post contains images Anxebla : I think you must know or you should know it by now. Nothing to do with it, as it was a GENERAL STRIKE done by BA ground staff with no precedents in t
59 Anxebla : This must go to Alfonso, Airlineslover and others who love NM. The written for you is totally true. And in many cases, the legacy carriers are equal
60 Anxebla : I'm talking especially on the Air Madrid case.
61 Bullpitt : hi anxebla have you notice we have the same amount of posts and the same rating today? Menuda casualidad
62 Post contains images IBERIA747 : Coming from you it's difficult to know anything.    Please care to enlighten us. Wrong...it's not the first time BA has to face a strike during a p
63 IBERIA747 : Bullpitt, Thanks for giving us an objective view on this matter. I was going to add you to my RU list but you're already on it!. About NM posting ben
64 Fermarta : Hi all, I think all the problems Air Madrid had this summer were basically due to a lack of experience ("han pagado la novatada"). They have been very
65 Anxebla : Wrong??? Do you remember another GENERAL STRIKE done by BA ground staff at Heathrow where the whole BA fleet was paralysed in that airport??? This is
66 Anxebla : Vueling can be profitable in 2007 according to its own executive staff. At the same time I say how unfair is saying IB and NM is the same, I say too
67 Airlineslover : WOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWW and you are telling us that you are not an IBERIA's fan?????? For God sake...... this is going too much far, we have to wait for see
68 Post contains images Anxebla : First of all, dont be childish, OK? according to own user profile you're between 36-45 years old. Prove it. The Alfonso's behavior and yours is total
69 Bullpitt : Have just read that Air Madrid has posted a loss of six millions Euros for the first year. How long do you think a new airline can go presenting losse
70 Post contains images Legacy135 : I was actually wondering since the beginning who gives the money for AirMadrid, if it's this "Alada Tours" or who? In my opinion launching a long rang
71 Bullpitt : Whether NM makes it through to next year will depend if they manage to grow with profit or, if this growth turns into a larger loss, how long will its
72 Fermarta : As long as its shareholders think the airline has a future, and they seem to think that it does. If the profits of other companies of the group make
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Air Madrid To Fly MIA-BCN posted Wed Jul 12 2006 18:17:12 by MAH4546
Air Madrid: Another Big Delay posted Thu Nov 30 2006 16:47:55 by TACAA320
Air Transat To BCN, VIE, VLC & AGP In 2007! posted Thu Nov 2 2006 23:32:59 by Thenoflyzone
Air Madrid NM700 MEX-SJO And NM701 SJO-TLC, What! posted Wed Nov 1 2006 00:21:47 by Tomascubero
Future Of Air Madrid posted Tue Oct 31 2006 03:19:49 by TACAA320
Air Madrid- 20 Hours For MAD-PMI.... posted Mon Oct 30 2006 14:23:26 by Beaucaire
Air Madrid MIA/LAX Update posted Sat Oct 28 2006 23:34:23 by MAH4546
Air Madrid B737-400 posted Thu Oct 26 2006 15:14:27 by RAFVC10
Air Madrid Problems? posted Thu Oct 5 2006 06:47:30 by Iberia340600
Air Madrid CR1's! posted Mon Sep 18 2006 21:14:47 by RAFVC10