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Northwest DC-9 Makes Emergency Landing At STL  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3135 posts, RR: 10
Posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9210 times:

Courtesy: KARE-TV

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=106879

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLevg79 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 995 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9181 times:

Still, this is not a good enough reason for NW to get rid of those DC-9s.

Does anyone think it has something to do with that strike we hear lately or just something routine?

Leo.



A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9131 times:

Firstly, lets wait for a full report from a source other than the local media.

Mechanical issues happen with all aircraft, new and old, from time to time - even well maintained aircraft will occassionally have a problem. Its also unlikely that the strike indirectly caused this incident.

Most importantly, everyone was OK - lets not over-react.


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9102 times:

When a twin-engined aircraft loses an engine (either outright failure, or precautionary shutdown), the FAA regs say you land at the nearest suitable airport in point-of-time. This reg is in effect all the time, not just when an airline is on strike. These kinds of things happen once in awhile, to all airlines, and NWA gets the big press (unwarranted) here because the mechanics are on strike, and the media presumes they're related.

Much ado about nothing, on a slow news Saturday....


(By the media, not you for posting the article Karl...)  Wink

[Edited 2005-09-11 02:02:00]

User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 9060 times:

As long as you have control over your flight surfaces and your wing is still attached, this isn't all too alarming. We'll have to wait and see what the reports on the incident read but nonetheless congrats for a safe divertion and relief that it didn't have an opposite result.

User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3135 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8985 times:

Courtesy: WCCO-TV

A Little More Info........not much..............

http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_253165534.html


User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8452 times:

Folks, I guarantee you, if the aircraft did not have any nose gear problem, no one outside of the airport would have known about this incident.

This report is nothing more then sensationalism. Typical media when dealing with aviation.


User currently offlineTWAMD-80 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1006 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8437 times:

Yeah I heard this story on one of STL's local news broadcasts. They completely blew it out of proportion. I had to have a laugh at that fact.

TW



Two A-4's, left ten o'clock level continue left turn!
User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9501 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8435 times:

Quoting Boeing nut (Reply 11):
no one outside of the airport would have known about this incident.

"Eric Patton, operations specialist for Lambert, also said..."



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8425 times:

Well here is my 2 cents...

I have heard from other sources, that the pilots and flight attendants are purposely writing out MELs so they can get the scabs on board and write their employee number and name down and pass it around...

So until I read an actual report from the FAA or NTSB on what happened, I am going to assume that a Union Pilot purposely shut down the engine, and reported trouble with the Nose-wheel just to get the Scud on board.

Not that I'm on either side, but with the labor troubles at NWA, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the mechanics found NOTHING wrong with the engine, and Ok'd it for service.


User currently offlineDerik737 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 333 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8413 times:

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 14):
So until I read an actual report from the FAA or NTSB on what happened, I am going to assume that a Union Pilot purposely shut down the engine, and reported trouble with the Nose-wheel just to get the Scud on board.

Dude, you need to get a grip on reality.


User currently offlineTWAMD-80 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1006 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 8386 times:

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 14):
So until I read an actual report from the FAA or NTSB on what happened, I am going to assume that a Union Pilot purposely shut down the engine, and reported trouble with the Nose-wheel just to get the Scud on board

I know how sticky union-management situations get, but even so I can't imagine any pilot in his right mind would purposefully shut down a fully operational engine just so he could get the names of a few replacement mechs.

TW



Two A-4's, left ten o'clock level continue left turn!
User currently offlineGuamVICE From Guam, joined Jun 2005, 151 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 8281 times:

Quoting Boeing nut (Reply 11):
Folks, I guarantee you, if the aircraft did not have any nose gear problem, no one outside of the airport would have known about this incident.

This report is nothing more then sensationalism. Typical media when dealing with aviation.

I agree. Anything short of the nosegear issue would have have rendered this unimportant. It's just funny that NWA seems to be having trouble with their landing gear nowadays....Guam, Detroit, St. Louis....where next hehe...

Regards



The two most engaging powers of a photographer are to make new things familiar and to make familiar things new. ~Thacker
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14131 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 8257 times:

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 14):

I have heard from other sources, that the pilots and flight attendants are purposely writing out MELs so they can get the scabs on board and write their employee number and name down and pass it around...

So until I read an actual report from the FAA or NTSB on what happened, I am going to assume that a Union Pilot purposely shut down the engine, and reported trouble with the Nose-wheel just to get the Scud on board.

Not that I'm on either side, but with the labor troubles at NWA, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the mechanics found NOTHING wrong with the engine, and Ok'd it for service.

First, you have no clue about aircraft maintenance. A pilot or a F/A is not a mechanic. Period. He can make a logbook entry for what ever he thinks is faulty on the aircraft, but this entry has to be evaluated by a mechanic. It is purely the mechanic's decision (using the MEL and the AMM as guidelines) if he defers the fault for later repair, if the system is ok or if it has to be repaired on the spot.

Secondly I doubt that any pilot with a sane mind will shut down an engine on purpose to support a union. Actually, many NWA pilots don't support the mechanics, because they are scared about their pensions. They hope that if they behave well now, the management won't cut their pension plan.

Jan


User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3152 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 8181 times:

The pilots made a really nice landing. Touched down in a big flare and held it until the plane slowed down some. Talking to some of the firefighters that came in from the city and were staged at the house while the CFR guys did their thing I was told that the nose gear was the issue. The firefighters made no mention of an engine shutdown. The pilot went pretty heavy on the reverse, more so than usual.

I was wondering how fast this thread would bring up the mechanics strike. Emergency landings happen much more often than most of the public realizes. The airlines don't take any chances and an erroneous reading or annunciator light will often prompt a mandetory emergency per their ops specs. Slow news days and mecanics strikes are the only time that they make the front page.



DMI
User currently offline1MillionFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7658 times:

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 14):
Well here is my 2 cents...

Please take your 2 cents back, A pilot would NEVER shut an engine down on purpose when there was no problem with it.

The FAA would yank his/her ticket so fast they wouldn't know what happened.

Paranoid much?


User currently offlineGoodmanr From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 297 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 7288 times:

What does it mean to manually crank down the landing gear? Can this be done on all aircraft? Where are the controls to do this?


USAirways - Chairmans Gold
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3245 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6880 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
Firstly, lets wait for a full report from a source other than the local media.

Concur. This brings to mind the F9 flight just a few nights ago where a unruly passenger hit a F/A on a regular scheduled flight from Houston to DEN. He was ultimately subdued by three or four other passengers

The press twisted and spun it that when reported it was one of the evacuation flights from New Orleans flying passengers to Denver.
 liar 



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineTWAMD-80 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1006 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5837 times:

Quoting Goodmanr (Reply 16):
What does it mean to manually crank down the landing gear? Can this be done on all aircraft? Where are the controls to do this?

It depends on the airplane mainly. As far as I know all airplanes with retractible landing gear have some method for lowering the gear in an emergency. Lighter airplanes usually have a hand pump that will lower the gear (Cessna 172RG). The Cessna 310 has a hand crank that will lower the gear. Larger aircraft (Cessna 421, Learjets) have a nitrogen system that will blow the gear into the down and locked position.

TW



Two A-4's, left ten o'clock level continue left turn!
User currently offlineSkyHigh777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5489 times:

NW can't get rid of their DC9's yet cuz I haven't had a chance to fly on it yet!!

All joking aside, thankfully the plane landed without incident and everyone on board is O.K.



Prepare for take-off.
User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5310 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 8):
Quoting Boeing nut (Reply 11):
no one outside of the airport would have known about this incident.

"Eric Patton, operations specialist for Lambert, also said..."

This is my co-worker, and I am very surprised that he would even talk to the media as technically, our department is not supposed to talk to them at all.

[Edited 2005-09-11 23:16:11]

User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3152 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4860 times:

Does this mean that Ops will be having an opening soon?  Smile

Goodmanr,

Every aircraft with retractable gear has some sort of manual backup system to extend the gear. Piper aircraft use a "freefall" system as their gear is held in place by hydrualic system. Larger aircraft have often have some sort of backup hydraulic accumulator, or a "blowdown" system using a compressed air source. Some others may have an electric motor backup. I think (but don't hold me to this, maybe somebody familiar with the 9 will correct me) that DC-9s have a freefall system. When they have a hydraulic failure the main gear wheelwells freefall but I don't know if the gear follows suit. If this is the case, the gear was not extended manually in this instance as the aircraft's gear doors were closed on landing.



DMI
User currently offlineG550 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4849 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 13):
First, you have no clue about aircraft maintenance. A pilot or a F/A is not a mechanic. Period. He can make a logbook entry for what ever he thinks is faulty on the aircraft, but this entry has to be evaluated by a mechanic. It is purely the mechanic's decision (using the MEL and the AMM as guidelines) if he defers the fault for later repair, if the system is ok or if it has to be repaired on the spot.

Your comment about a pilot not being able use the MEL and defer an item is incorrect. Many of the items in the MEL can be performed by the pilot if the MEL allows it. Each item in the MEL will specify whether it can be performed by the pilot or if it must be done by a mechanic. What items can be done by the pilot is going to depend on the aircraft as each MEL is approved separately for each airplane.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14131 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4795 times:

This depends on company procedures. In my professional life I have probably opened and closed several hundred deferred items.
Generaly, depending on the defect and what the MEL says, a pilot can open a deferral if e.g. he is on a remote airport without maintenance representation.
The last airline I worked for permitted a deferral by a pilot if
a) There was no maintenance available and the problem didn't require any dispatch maintenance procedure, like e.g. locking a valve out
or
b) On an airport with maintenance, if the defect appeared within 30 minutes prior to departure and didn't require a dispatch maintenance procedure.

In all other cases only a mechanic could open a deferral. The pilot's duty was to enter the defect into the tech log, and the mechanic had to act on it, either by fixing the problem or by deferring it iaw MEL.

Jan


User currently offlineArgonaut From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 2004, 422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4387 times:

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 14):
Emergency landings happen much more often than most of the public realizes.

Absolutely true. Back in my regular planespotting days at LHR and LGW, it was a rare day when something didn't happen. If I spent from 1030 until 1730, four days out of five I'd see the fire trucks meet some plane down the runway and follow it onto a taxiway. It was clearly always precautionary. So let's all calm down, shall we!

The media will report almost anything if they think there's some kind of angle. On the first day of the NW strike, if memory serves me right, there was even an absurd news story about an NW plane (757, I think) that had a tyre burst. Give me a break! I've been on quite a few planes over the years that burst tyres, and not one got into the news...and why should it? Nuts!



'the rank is but the guinea stamp'
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