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NW And Mechanics Break Off Talks  
User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3617 times:

In an article released today by CNN, it is reported that NW executives and the striking mechanics have broken off the talks set to rectify the walkout:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/09/11/news...ortune500/northwest.reut/index.htm

All I can say is, good.


Crye me a river
68 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3588 times:

One more thing...apparently this is going to be the last straw. While no official release has been given, there probably won't be anymore talks in the future.

Temps just became permanent.  Big grin



Crye me a river
User currently offlineMarshalN From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3566 times:

All I can say is -- Wow.

If this is really the last talk, I wonder what those mechanics are thinking now.


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3553 times:

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 2):
I wonder what those mechanics are thinking now

"Should I work at Taco Bell? Or should I work at the dry cleaning place?"


User currently offline1rocco From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3503 times:

This is a very sad day not only for the mechanics but for all unionized workers. I truly don't understand how many of you folks on here can rejoice over the outcome. I would love to know the careers of all of the arm chair CEO's on here. I would love to sit back and pick apart ways your company could get rid of you and send your job overseas or to the lowest bidder. The difference between us airline employees and many of you is that all our laundry is out for everyone to see while you sit behind your computer shooting your mouths thinking it will never happen to you, guess again it may. Your job maybe next.
Rocco


User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3463 times:

Quoting 1rocco (Reply 4):
I would love to sit back and pick apart ways your company could get rid of you and send your job overseas or to the lowest bidder. The difference between us airline employees and many of you is that all our laundry is out for everyone to see while you sit behind your computer shooting your mouths thinking it will never happen to you, guess again it may. Your job maybe next.

I'd like to see my job outsourced to India. The day that happens is the day Americans should worry about their defense.

And, guess what? The reason why most of rejoice over this is because the majority of those striking in this ONE situation are greedy bastards who want to hold the company hostage. No one is talking about unions as a whole, but this one is not one that is supported very much in America right now.



Crye me a river
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3455 times:

Very sad indeed for the families involved.

Many of these folks gave the best years of their lives for the airline.

I truly can´t understand the heartless responds of some members being happy.


User currently offlineBostonGuy From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 514 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3432 times:

Quoting 1rocco (Reply 4):
The difference between us airline employees and many of you is that all our laundry is out for everyone to see while you sit behind your computer shooting your mouths thinking it will never happen to you, guess again it may. Your job maybe next.

Airline employees have their heads in the sand if they think they are the only ones who going through this change.

Millions of Americans outside of the airline industry have experienced this... and have adapted to the realities of a new economy. They didn't make the change by demanding pay that ignored the reality that their company was on the brink of financial collapse or unable to compete under the union's terms.

It's tough. It sucks. But living in an imaginary world based on business models that no longer work will not help you.

We're not arm-chair CEO's. We're people who've already experienced this. And that is why union membership has plummeted in America. Unions, as they currently operate, are no longer relevant or helpful to today's workers.


User currently offlineFlyBoeing From United States of America, joined May 2000, 866 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3405 times:

Not sure why people are claiming victory on behalf of Northwest's management. Victory means all of three things:

1) The mechanics agree to the terms set out for them, or

1a) They get the replacements to continue delivering high-quality output indefinitely at a wage *lower* than what they're getting now.

2) The other unions follow their lead, and

3) The airline doesn't go bankrupt.

The events of the past few days don't provide much support for any one of the 3 neccesary conditions for Northwest to survive.


User currently offlineUAcosCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3364 times:

Quoting 1rocco (Reply 4):
This is a very sad day not only for the mechanics but for all unionized workers.

They got what they wanted. They voted to strike, they struck, and now they are out of work. What part of the process don't you understand? The end justifies the means. They knew the end result could end in loss of employment.


Cant blame ANYBODY but the mechanics and members of AMFA

UAL employees knew during this BK process that the company needed give backs, if we refused they could and would outsource any group but the pilots, or risk tossing out our contracts.

Do you think it would have made sense? No, let the employees know the dire need to give back, give back and receive profit sharing and raises once the company returns to healthy.


User currently offlineAAgent From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 560 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3360 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
I truly can´t understand the heartless responds of some members being happy.

Perhaps they're not so heartless after all. It may be the case that many either remember or have studied the history of commercial aviation and see the names of some great airlines that no longer exist, killed by the greed of their unions. Many of these people are happy because NW would appear to be making some headway in their battle to survive, by breaking the union in this case. Lower costs are mandated in today's operating environment. They're not optional. Many unions don't seem to understand this sad new reality.

Best Regards,
AAgent



War Eagle!
User currently offlineDl757md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3347 times:

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 5):
And, guess what? The reason why most of rejoice over this is because the majority of those striking in this ONE situation are greedy bastards who want to hold the company hostage. No one is talking about unions as a whole, but this one is not one that is supported very much in America right now.

Usnseallt82. I'm sorry that you think that a majority of the mechanics striking are greedy bastards. I feel sorry for you that you can't possibly fathom how when a majority of group of workers is going to be laid off that they might be justified in fighting to save their jobs.

When you as a soldier go into battle is the outcome known with complete certainty? Absolutely not, just as AMFA knew there was no certainty that they would come out of a strike better off than they went into it.

Would you be called a greedy warmongering bloodthirsty pig if you where forced into a battle rather than surrender under the terms that 53% of your troops would be executed? No. you would be called a hero even if your entire force was wiped out.

These people aren't greedy or misguided. They are fighting for what they believe in. Something that I would hope you, being in the military and all, would understand.

Quoting BostonGuy (Reply 7):
We're not arm-chair CEO's. We're people who've already experienced this.

And you just laid down and took it. Shame on you!!!

Dl757Md



757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
User currently offlineBostonGuy From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 514 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3329 times:

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 11):
And you just laid down and took it. Shame on you!!!

I'm making more money and working fewer hours. Why should I be ashamed of accomplishing that?

How does your twisted logic work, pray tell?


User currently onlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2950 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3308 times:

Another press release on the same topic:

NW makes a statement about the AMFA's decision to break-off talks.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050911/nysu025.html?.v=14


User currently offlineDl757md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3287 times:

Quoting BostonGuy (Reply 12):
I'm making more money and working fewer hours. Why should I be ashamed of accomplishing that?

How does your twisted logic work, pray tell?

Great for you! But the fact of the matter is that most people in this country who have been through this are not in your postion. They are having to work more hours at lower pay to make ends meet. The consumer economy that we are becoming is setting us all up for a huge fall. We will have no real goods to offer or the infrastructure to produce them. All wealth generated in this country will be "on paper" and will only be worth that paper when the our baseless economy can no longer sustain itself.

Dl757Md



757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
User currently offlineBostonGuy From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 514 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3279 times:

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 14):
But the fact of the matter is that most people in this country who have been through this are not in your postion.

Most? As in more than 50%?

If that's what you are claiming then please share with us some specific sources.

I know you'll find this exercise to be most enlightening.


User currently offlineMarshalN From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3272 times:

Just for the record, I was actually quite concerned about the striking workers and when I say "I wonder what they're thinking now" what I really meant was that I think they're now stuck in a bind that nobody would want to be in. I do wish them luck. It probably came off as an anti-union comment though :/

User currently offline1rocco From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3255 times:

Quote:
They got what they wanted. They voted to strike, they struck, and now they are out of work. What part of the process don't you understand? The end justifies the means. They knew the end result could end in loss of employment.

Get your head out of the sand. Did you see the demands NWA was asking of the mechanics? Would anyone in there right mind vote to eliminate 53% of there workforce? Oh yeah that's right it would be for the good of the company and for the industry. What were those greedy mechanics thinking. This is pure union busting.. Nothing more nothing less.


User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3249 times:

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 11):
These people aren't greedy or misguided. They are fighting for what they believe in. Something that I would hope you, being in the military and all, would understand.

Christ, they're mechanics and janitors who think making only $60,000 a year is not enough. And you want to compare that to the duty of fighting for your country? They're not fighting for some greater good...the majority of them are fighting to keep money that 1000 others waiting behind them in the regional carriers and local FBO's would love to take!

Yes, I call this greedy....narrow-minded as well. But I've posted more than my fair share of comments about this, so I'll leave it alone.



Crye me a river
User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3226 times:

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 5):
I'd like to see my job outsourced to India. The day that happens is the day Americans should worry about their defense.

3 words- Unmanned Aerial Vehicles. I know, I know, they can't do EVERYTHING that a manned aircraft can do, but can do a lot. Just like a contract NW mechanic may not be able to do EVERYTHING a unionized NW mechanic can(for now), but they can do a lot.

I know, as the band Dos Gringos sings in "Predator Eulogy", the man is holding you down.


www.dosgringosrocks.com

OttoPylit


User currently offlineDl757md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3205 times:

Quoting BostonGuy (Reply 15):
Most? As in more than 50%?

If that's what you are claiming then please share with us some specific sources.

I know you'll find this exercise to be most enlightening.

Here'smy source.

Basically from May 2001 to May 2004 (the most recent date available for the info I'm quoting) the avg annual wage rose 9.2% from $34,020 to $37,020 while the CPI (consumer product Index) rose 6.4%. From this one would infer that standard of living rose. However, during the same time period the number of people in the work force rose only .1% from 127,980,410 to 128,127,360 and the avg hourly wage rose less than .1% from $8.09 to $8.17(in 1982 $).
Therefore the avg number of hours per worker rose by almost 11%! Of course you worked fewer hours so someone had to work an extra part-time job on top of the the full time job and other part-time job they already had to offset you so the above facts ended up the way they are.

I think based on what I've shown you that 50% of the people who've faced downsizing are working more and making less as I said. You're one of the lucky ones. Nice of you though to try to deligitimize the plight of those who haven't been as fortunate.

Dl757Md



757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14138 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3182 times:

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 18):
Christ, they're mechanics and janitors who think making only $60,000 a year is not enough. And you want to compare that to the duty of fighting for your country? They're not fighting for some greater good...the majority of them are fighting to keep money that 1000 others waiting behind them in the regional carriers and local FBO's would love to take!

Do you really believe that if the AMFA mechanics accepted the pay cuts, NWA would hire more people?
The difference would go straight into the pockets of ther management and the share holders. NWA is interested in having LESS mechanics, not in keeping the number.

And BTW, why should a company bean counter management type earn a few millions every year? He is not producing anything, he is just shuffling money from one account to another.
I have seen enough of the MBA management wonders at work, who didn't have a clue about the industry they were working in.

Jan


User currently offlineDl757md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3178 times:

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 18):
Christ, they're mechanics and janitors who think making only $60,000 a year is not enough

I'll continue to debate you when you decide to refer to the facts rather than you're isolated, uninformed, closeminded, all I've ever known in the grown-up world is the military, fictional view of the world. Until then....Happy flying.

Dl757Md



757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14138 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3169 times:

Might be interesting:
http://www.apapdp.org/cms/index.php?...ption=com_content&task=view&id=449

Executive Douglas Steenland of NWA receives $4,421,480 compensation per year. With this he is in the upper middle area of management compensations. His Southwest counterparts earn much less.

Jan


User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3087 times:

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 19):
3 words- Unmanned Aerial Vehicles.

Okay, you got me there. A very real possibility but not anytime soon. Still, we all keep tabs on their progress.  eyepopping 

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 22):
I'll continue to debate you when you decide to refer to the facts rather than you're isolated, uninformed, closeminded, all I've ever known in the grown-up world is the military, fictional view of the world. Until then....Happy flying.

A yes...military and fictional in the same sentence. Real smart buddy.

Instead of being a prick, how about you tell me the facts of the matter in your own isolated, uninformed, close-minded, all you've ever known is NW, supposedly non-fictional view of the world?

I'll be waiting...



Crye me a river
25 Flanker : and dont forget " Oh shit i shouldve taken that paycut!"
26 Post contains links Dl757md : Wait no more! I can't begin to tell you the number of pilots I've talked to that came from the military who have had it ingrained into them not to qu
27 Post contains links Jessman : Instead of choosing to eliminate 53% of their workforce they chose to eliminate 100% I find the fact that the other unions at NW chose to cross the p
28 NY-JFK-LGA : Some of you are so happy I see. Ya just keep saying how they need to get rid of the striking mechanics and give the jobs to the people with lower rate
29 LMP737 : Two people who seem to be under the impression that they were saying no to concessions. When the facts are they were willing to take concessions.
30 Hammer : The severance package AMFA wanted was 20 weeks...NWA offered 16, AMFA said no and walked, over 4 weeks!!!!! Seriously AMFA, give me a break, 16 weeks
31 Flanker : Never said they weren't.
32 Post contains images Derik737 : Sure, 3/4 of the membership would have voted themselves out of a job for 3 months severance. Yup, sure.
33 Derik737 : What is really going to be interesting is to see how many of the "temporary workers" will actually accept full time employement at the wage that NWA w
34 Legacytravel : Well I do feel sorry for the most of the families involved, that are losing their jobs. As for the militant union members who wanted to see the NWA go
35 Zvezda : False analogy. There is a world of difference between being executed and needing to find another job. They were already out of a job -- by their own
36 Northwestair : I am waiting to see how many AMFA Mechs cross the Picket line on Tuesday. I have a feeling that a lot are going to do it. Just my gut feeling
37 Shenzhen : I don't think it takes a brain surgeon to clean shitters and wax the floor. LOL
38 Hammer : They, being the ones who were going to be losing there jobs, YES, they would rather have something or nothing. Don't get me wrong, they would love to
39 AMFAproud : As a Northwest Mechanic I'm disgusted with the flag waving ignorance of some of these post. It has been NW plan for years to file bankruptcy! I have h
40 Zvezda : There are two groups of mechanics who will cross the picket lines: the hard workers and the smart ones. The others will continue to picket.
41 Derik737 : So did ValuJet. For awhile... Remember that salaried managers (including engineers with A&P's) are working 16 hour days with one day off a week (and
42 BOS2LAF : To be fair, I think neither side smells like roses here. AMFA doesn't seem to realize that No company=No jobs for ANYONE. Assuming their strike was s
43 Post contains images FlyGuyClt : You sum it up. RESPECT is the missing in"greed"iant. Safe Flying
44 N867BX : I am SOOO tired of hearing this. Everyone orders value meals today, the fries are included!!! If you want to give useful occupational advice, perhaps
45 Post contains links KarlB737 : Courtesy: WCCO-TV Talks Between Union, Airline Collapse Video Report: http://wcco.com/video/?id=10014@wcco.dayport.com -------------------------------
46 Post contains images MattRB : 53% layoff vs 100% layoff. I'll agree that either number sucks, but one is certainly better than the other. Bull. AMFA knew that NWA had backup in th
47 Dougloid : Thanks brother....I may disagree with you about a lot, but we're on the same piece of sheet music here. People who live in glass houses ought not thr
48 Post contains images EA CO AS : Not true - but your mind has long since been made up so I won't attempt to change it by providing the background of this dispute. Not true - or at le
49 Post contains images Lightsaber : Well said. Its not that any of us are against people earning good incomes. Its is the fact that most of us have been through the changes and now unde
50 Usnseallt82 : I tell you what...I made a mistake. I should have said the union's management. I understand the background of this entire situation and have spoken t
51 LMP737 : I'm not sure what your longterm career goals are Usnseallt82. If it includes getting out after your current stint or after twenty years and fly comme
52 Dougloid : Something of an oversimplification. Adam Smith got to economics by way of social philosophy....most of our present day free market ideology people do
53 Dougloid : For a guy who's part of the biggest pork barrel project there is or ever was in the entire world, bar none, you seem to have studied on the condition
54 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : I've never debated that fact. But, making $150,000 a year is hardly a fight compared to fighting for safe working conditions, taking away 14 hour day
55 LMP737 : How do you know what is being paid "very well" for their position? Have you performed that position? Or are you just making an uniformed opinion. You
56 Post contains images Lightsaber : A damn good bill (ok, Act, since it passed). If you want to have a beer sometime and talk how its been watered down, sure! (Hint, I'm a Linux advocat
57 UAcosCS : I don't care if they were willing to give up concessions, bottom line is they are unemployed right now. So somewhere talks failed, and they tried to
58 AirFrnt : It is a sad day for certain unions. Simple. The Unions are far more destructive then they are helpful. They trap people in jobs that prevent them fro
59 Dougloid : That's not cheating...that's doing what you do better by unloading things to people who CAN do them better. Nothing wrong in that. No, what I was ref
60 LMP737 : Please explain Delta Airlines.
61 Ken777 : I'm not impressed with the union on this one. I worked (many years ago) for a company that went under. Had been in a new house less than a year and we
62 Mrocktor : Wrong. Airline pilots started to make what they do in an intense upswing of commercial air traffic, when the scarcity of qualified pilots drove up th
63 LMP737 : Two somewhat contradictory statements. Which one is it? You might want to read up on the history of the airline industry in the US before you tell me
64 Mrocktor : Not contradictory at all. What I'm saying is that pilot pay would have increase in the "good days" even if unions were not constantly making demands
65 AirFrnt : My point is not that Unions are evil, but there are some huge problems when you have a union that is heavily self identified and hostile to the copro
66 UAL747DEN : Why does it matter if the airline goes BK or not? Now they will just have an easier time, they will have less greedy employees to deal with. I don't
67 LMP737 : Just in case you did not know this but the history of airlines and Chapter 11 is not a very good one. In a lot of cases it's just a rest stop before
68 Dougloid : I've been through all this in the last aerospace implosion in 1992. At that time I had to decide-should I take that job at Northwest, or do I find som
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