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RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06  
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 4332 times:

It is confirmed: as of 14 January 2006 RG will drop NRT from its network.

However, the airline will continue to operate GIG-GRU-LAX 4 x week with the MD-11. RG flies to Japan since 1969. However, operations to Japan via the US became unsustainable because of the new US Transit VISA rules. The majority of pax now fly to Japan via Europe. Before 09/11 RG used to operate to NRT daily, and then reduced the flight to 4 x week.

RG will continue to offer pax connections to Japan via FRA and MUC with LH and via LAX with UA and ANA.

On 15 January 2006 will start flights GRU-MUC 3 x week. In MUC RG will offer immediate connections with LH and other Star partner airlines to Asia, mainly PEK and NRT.

Rgs,

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5900 posts, RR: 40
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 4305 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
On 15 January 2006 will start flights GRU-MUC 3 x week. In MUC RG will offer immediate connections with LH and other Star partner airlines to Asia, mainly PEK and NRT.

sounds very intresting! any link regarding this?

but I will belive in it when the first flight arrives in MUC ( we know the troubel with RG and MUC)....

Any more information (what aircraft, what schedule?)

regards
Avianca



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32175 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 4303 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
Before 09/11 RG used to operate to NRT daily, and then reduced the flight to 4 x week.

They flew to Japan daily, not Tokyo. NRT was 4x weekly, NGO was 3x weekly. They attempted to get slots in 2002 to go daily to Tokyo, but were not successful.



a.
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8873 posts, RR: 40
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 4294 times:

Hardi, beat me to it!

Quoting Avianca (Reply 1):
Any more information (what aircraft, what schedule?)

MD-11 (probably -ER).

Quoting Avianca (Reply 1):
sounds very intresting! any link regarding this?

Portuguese only:

http://www.panrotas.com.br

They don't allow direct links to the press release anymore.

Good luck to RG at MUC!

Star flights to Brazil:

GRU-FRA*: B744, A346 (LH), B772 (RG).
GIG-FRA: B772 (RG)
GRU-MUC: MD-11ER (with RG)

*LH flights continue to EZE and SCL.

Cheers

[Edited 2005-09-13 23:35:08]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5900 posts, RR: 40
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 4281 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 3):
http://panrotas.com.br

it does not work Sad

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 3):
Good luck to RG at MUC!

if they real start they will have success on the route!!

cheers



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 4264 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 1):
sounds very intresting! any link regarding this?

http://www.panrotas.com.br/canais/re...&nome_model=ultima.asp&url_origem=

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
They flew to Japan daily, not Tokyo.

Correct.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
They attempted to get slots in 2002 to go daily to Tokyo, but were not successful.

The Japanese Government was VERY tough with RG, very unfair in my point of view, especially because Brazil embraced more than 2 million Japanese immigrants. RG tried its best to continue its operations to Japan; RG wanted to operate GRU-ZRH-NRT daily but the Japanese Government never granted RG traffic rights ZRH-NRT...now that RG dropped NRT from its network and JAL has the direct market Japan-Brazil all for its own...

Rgs,


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8873 posts, RR: 40
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 4256 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 4):
it does not work Sad

Forgot the www... lol, should work now

Cheers

PS: Don't click on the www above..lol

Edit:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 5):

http://www.panrotas.com.br/canais/re...igem=

I wonder why it didn't work for me the first time....

[Edited 2005-09-13 23:11:41]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5900 posts, RR: 40
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 4225 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 5):
http://www.panrotas.com.br/canais/re...&nome_model=ultima.asp&url_origem=

thanks!!!

it would be intresting to see in the future how many passengers on the flight will be conection passengers to asia, middle east, india and europe. and how many passengesr will be local for bavaria....

regards
Avianca

ps: are the flights already loaded into the booking tools?



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 4202 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 7):
it would be intresting to see in the future how many passengers on the flight will be conection passengers to asia, middle east, india and europe. and how many passengesr will be local for bavaria....

To be honest, I think the GRU-MUC route will be strong on its own! RG already operated this route in the past and it was a resound success...until LH spoilt the party. But I'm sure LH will not do it now, because the decision to axe LAX-NRT and start GRU-MUC was in line with the recommendation of LH Consultancy!  Wink [and dont forget the World Soccer Championship in Germany...Brazilians will literally flock to Germany...]

Quoting Avianca (Reply 7):
are the flights already loaded into the booking tools?

Not yet. My doubt is the frequency and timetable to MUC, is RG going to offer more frequencies and daylight operation or less frequencies and red-eye flights only?

Interesting to note: currently RG's two top performing routes are GRU-FRA and GIG-FRA. To add MUC in the network does seem a sensible decision.

Rgs,


User currently offlineUpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 4188 times:

Btw, isn't GIG-GRU-LAX-NRT the longest direct route in the world? 27 h 45 min, that's a long time on one aircraft! (Well, you have to disembark in LAX, but it's still the same flight and aircraft...)


AY and ANA rock!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 4135 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):

Seems that RG dropped one of three non profitable routes (they give this info on the recovery plan). In the next weeks probably we will hear more drops and new routes developments.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
Interesting to note: currently RG's two top performing routes are GRU-FRA and GIG-FRA. To add MUC in the network does seem a sensible decision.

Agree 100%, probably MUC could be a top 5 even not daily (and i believe in a short time, it will be daily!).

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
[and dont forget the World Soccer Championship in Germany...Brazilians will literally flock to Germany...]

Just a little off-topic. I paid less than USD 1,000 for my air ticket to HAM (connection thru CDG) for the World Cup, nowadays best fares are around USD 1,300 and some dates are already 95% booked. I believe RG and LH will probably add a new frequency during june/july for the city where Brazil will stay as demand will be extremelly high.

Rgds,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5900 posts, RR: 40
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 4121 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
To be honest, I think the GRU-MUC route will be strong on its own! RG already operated this route in the past and it was a resound success...until LH spoilt the party.

oh yes I can remember when Varig arrived in MUC firstly with the B763 and then with the MD11, then LH put the A343 flight to GRU ex MUC and Varig left MUC some months after that LH kicked the GRU flight ex MUC from the timetable.... as I could not live without any SouthAmerican Airline at my homeairport I moved to FRA,  Big grin



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineRG828 From Brazil, joined Jan 2004, 582 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 4032 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
It is confirmed: as of 14 January 2006 RG will drop NRT from its network.

Wow, how depressing. It used to be one of their most traditional routes, obtained through their merger with Real Aerovias in the 60s. My family used these flights fairly frequently from the 1970s up to the late 90s, starting from Haneda (Before NRT was open) using 707s, DC-10s, 742s, 743s, 744s and MD11s - the DC-10s being the most comfortable!

It was great seeing those Varig tails in NRT, the stopovers in ANC, and getting stuck in a closed-out waiting room in LAX during transits.

I hope all this shrinking in RG's route network helps it in some way.



I dont know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3926 times:

Quoting RG828 (Reply 12):
Wow, how depressing.

I find it rather rational.

Airlines have to adjust their network according to the market. It makes all the sense for RG to stop flying to a non-profitable destination, i.e. NRT, and to add flights to potential new markets, i.e. MUC, which happens to be LH second hub; and as Felipe mentioned, most certainly MUC will make it to one of RG most profitables routes.

Rgs,


User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2135 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3865 times:

I'm sorry but didn't RG fly to MUC before and drop it? Why was it dropped? Why are they putting so much faith in a market that they have been in before and left?

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3854 times:

Please read reply 8.

RG operations to MUC were very profitable and successful...until LH meddle into the market - something which, for now, we expect will not happen.

Rgs,


User currently offlineRG828 From Brazil, joined Jan 2004, 582 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3695 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 13):
Quoting RG828 (Reply 12):
Wow, how depressing.

I find it rather rational.

Yes, I agree. What I also wanted to say is that nowadays lenghty routes like Brazil-Japan can become unsustainable, in this case because of transit Visa impositions. The route always was very popular.

Somewhat similiar to how some European carriers stopped operating to Australia.

Varig's other Far-East destination in the past - GIG-GRU-JNB-BKK-HKG - was operationally complicated I was told (the details escape me.) I wonder how popular it was in its lifetime.



I dont know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2135 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3665 times:

Quoting RG828 (Reply 16):
I wonder how popular it was in its lifetime.

Comically low loads. Varig didn't have traffic rights JNB-BKK. Someone at RG told me that a huge chunk of passengers were actually ASU-TPE traffic (believe it or not). The yields must have been terrible.


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4675 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3598 times:

Let´s wait and see IF it gets started. IF yes, I have no reason to believe that it won´t be a success. But I think RG needs to improve its customer service (as LH does  Yeah sure ), just have a look at some recent trip reports...


Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5900 posts, RR: 40
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3538 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 15):
RG operations to MUC were very profitable and successful...until LH meddle into the market - something which, for now, we expect will not happen.

as I know LH and RG arranged between them that LH left the GIG market from FRA to RG and RG left the MUC - GRU market to LH.... Yes RG cutted the route to MUC for LH and some month later LH cuttted also the flight....

cheers



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3498 times:
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Quoting Avianca (Reply 19):
as I know LH and RG arranged between them that LH left the GIG market from FRA to RG and RG left the MUC - GRU market to LH.... Yes RG cutted the route to MUC for LH and some month later LH cuttted also the flight....

RG loads for FRA are in fact very strong. Yesterday flights was 90% GIG-FRA and about 79% GRU-FRA. Both flights with most Biz seats and First full. RG is looking probably to increase flights before World Cup and MUC is a right choice.
I can`t see LH claiming for this route as they will probably code-share the flight with RG.

Rgds
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5900 posts, RR: 40
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3489 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 20):
I can`t see LH claiming for this route as they will probably code-share the flight with RG.

well I can not confirm this.... LH is LH...
But I hope that it will be not the same scenario as last time (as mentioned above on my last post....)

regards
Avianca



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3493 times:

So a carrier drops their NRT slot, do they still retain the rights to the gate? If so, can they sell it? AA could use another slot so they can keep SJC-NRT in addition to their rights to fly HNL-NRT.

Regards.


User currently offlineHALFA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1339 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3452 times:

I have mixed emotions about this. While it is sad to see a legacy carrier like RG drop a route that was such an important part of it's structure for so many years, I'm also happy that now I might finally be able to get seats on the LAX-GIG segments without a problem! I would think this would significantly reduce load factor on GRU-LAX-GRU segments, but hopefully not enough that they will do away with LAX all together.

Aloha,
HALFA



HNL-PEK Starts April 2014
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3429 times:
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Quoting HALFA (Reply 23):
I have mixed emotions about this. While it is sad to see a legacy carrier like RG drop a route that was such an important part of it's structure for so many years, I'm also happy that now I might finally be able to get seats on the LAX-GIG segments without a problem! I would think this would significantly reduce load factor on GRU-LAX-GRU segments, but hopefully not enough that they will do away with LAX all together.

Halfa, now probably we will see Varig trying to work with agents to sell more California as a destination due to additional space on the M11. I was there some weeks ago and at least 70% of GIG-NRT leaves at LAX (and many people on the conference need to connect thru DFW and MIA). Also RG will try to sell GIG-LAX as the only South America flight/option to California. I see a good future for this flight. In a couple of years it could become a daily flight.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 Brasuca : VARIG has just released their three weekly schedule to MUC: GRU - MUC (RG 8772) 22:25 - 13:00 THU - FRI - SUN MUC - GRU (RG 8773) 20:30 - 05:45 MON -
26 TP727 : UAL´s presence in SFO is greater than LAX? If it is, maybe RG should change their California flight to SFO, instead of LAX. I haven´t been to LAX fo
27 LipeGIG : SFO is an United Airlines hub. The problem is some cargo deals that RG keeps for LAX because for pax, i think the change it`s not a problem. Felipe
28 Flymunich : Another weekly charter flight from Varig starts every saturday by the end of october 2005 from Rio to Munich with B767-300.
29 PPVRA : Also, all of RG's operations to LIS are expected to be via codeshare with TAP by NOV/05... I guess that opens up a/c to run a second JFK. PPVRA
30 A342 : Sorry, I couldn´t find anything on RG´s Germany website nor on amadeus.net nor on another fare search engine. A question about the GIG flight: Is it
31 Post contains links Flymunich : @ A342 Booking www.rio-direkt.de, only full charter flights.
32 Post contains images A342 : During Autumn holidays you could fly to RIO for just 714 € ! Let´s have an a.net meet in Rio ! (just kidding )
33 Post contains images LipeGIG : PPVRA, in fact RG will use the same 2 777-200ER (PP-VRI and VRJ) to run a daily light 3 times per week. With PP-VRA back to service since saturday ni
34 N1120A : Of late, RG was actually trying to get back their NGO slots and go daily there, as they would have no competition on the route and been able to codes
35 Post contains images OHLHD : Count on me! Me the second.
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