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RG International Flights - One Day Overview  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3817 times:
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For people who read the news concerning to RG, probably many of all here thinks that Rio is a low yield. The only way to prove something is with real data, so let's see how are RG international flights for Today:

The info obtained from a reliable source (of course i cannot say who) is divided into: Pax per each class, Connections, Connections from GIG

Flight code: 8706
GRU-LIS

PAX................ C: 12 Y: 206
Connections:.... C: 04 Y: 139
(GIG).............. C: 03 Y: 027

Flight code: 8714
GRU-MAD

PAX................ C: 32 Y: 216
Connections..... C: 15 Y: 152
(GIG).............. C: 11 Y: 12

Flight code: 8756
GRU-LHR-CPH

PAX................ F: 3 C: 42 Y: 229
Connections..... F: 3 C: 24 Y: 169
(GIG).............. F: 1 C: 5 ..Y: 14

Flight code: PU802*
MVD-GIG-MAD (operated by Pluna)

PAX................ C: 20 Y: 202
MVD.............. C: 8 ..Y: 152
GIG............... C: 12 Y: 42
GRU.............. C: 00 .Y: 08

Flight code: 8818
GRU-MIA

PAX................ F: 2 C: 31 Y: 119
Connections..... F: 2 C: 27 Y: 91
(GIG).............. F: 1 C: 20 Y: 30

Flight code: 8864
GRU-JFK

PAX................ F: 3 C: 32 Y: 184
Connections..... F: 3 C: 23 Y: 151
(GIG).............. F: 3 C: 11 Y: 47

Flight code: 8720
GIG-GRU-CDG-AMS

PAX................ F: 4 C: 40 Y: 210
Connections..... F: 2 C: 19 Y: 153
(GIG).............. F: 2 C: 09 Y: 37

Flight code: 8743
GIG-GRU-MXP

PAX................ F: 6 C: 24 Y: 224
Connections..... F: 1 C: 20 Y: 211
(GIG).............. F: 1 C: 11 Y: 61

Flight code: 8744
GIG-FRA

PAX................ F: 3 C: 41 Y: 202
Connections..... F: 0 C: 10 Y: 100
(GRU).............. F: 0 C: 00 Y: 11

Flight code: 8740
GRU-FRA

PAX................ F: 5 C: 48 Y: 178
Connections..... F: 0 C: 20 Y: 118
(GIG).............. F: 0 C: 1 Y: 0

Flight code: SA206
GRU-JNB

PAX................ C: 14 Y: 125
Connections..... C: 05 Y: 97
(GIG).............. C: 02 Y: 23

Notes:

1- For all flights the PAX includes only paid tickets. Staff or others are not included.
2- * For PU802 flight, numbers are divided by origin (MVD, GIG, GRU and Other Connections)
3- GIG aggregate for connect on GRU: 8 First, 71 Biz, 271 Y. (Need at least 2 M11)
4- Numbers given as of 21:50. So connections and GIG are effective numbers. GRU numbers are subject to little change.

Comments:

LIS:
Most connections from BSB and south. 70% Y pax come from connections.

MAD:
Even with a non stop flight (Biz 100% full on PU802) GIG sends 11 pax to GRU (33%). Again about 75% Y pax come from connections. GIG presents more Biz pax than GRU (agregate PU+RG)

LHR-CPH:
Big surprise for me. More than 50% biz and 70% Y come from connections.

MIA:
The lower loads today are on MIA, and it`s justified: GRU at night keeps 4 flights to MIA (2 AA, 1 JJ and 1 RG) and RG equipment (MD11) is not so confortable as AA777 and JJA332 (both with IFE available for even Y pax).
From GRU you find only 4 biz and 28 Y (All other coming from Connections and
GIG, even the 2 First Class pax). And RG drop GIG-MIA with 100% loads...

JFK:
Another surprise. All First Class come from Rio. For Buz, Connections (12) are even bigger than Rio (11) and Sao Paulo (9). Again, Y are mainly connections. RG will face strong competition from JJ on a couple months.

CDG-AMS:
Rio and Sao Paulo shares First Class. Sao Paulo keeps ahead on Biz. But one more time, Y are mainly from connections. Again RG keeps the worst equipment on this route (M11 against AF 777 and JJ 332).

MXP:
On this flight we can see the power of Sao Paulo, 83% of First Class but only 4 Biz and 11 Y. The worst number in a flight (only 20 pax). Connections and GIG brings 20 Biz Class and 211 Y.

FRA:
Numbers are always strong, both flights GIG and GRU depends on connections to fill Y (49% GIG, 65% GRU). And as always announced, GIG biz (32) are higher than GRU (27). There is also a huge number of biz from connections (30). This is due to the fact that GRU keeps two LH flights and GIG only the RG. Generally both flights keeps high loads on both F and C.

Some other airlines info:
AA950 GIG-GRU: 99 pax (to DFW and JFK flights)
GOL 7454 GIG-GRU: 95 pax (to EZE)

This is to show, where RG traffic is generated, and that Sao Paulo is a strong city, but for RG, it`s just a Hub for flights, not for pax. Also for several people trying to say that only GRU and Sao Paulo are high yield, some interesting info.
I know it`s only one day, but its the most representative and valuable info already obtained for RG flights.

Regards,
Felipe


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3726 times:

Felipe: thank you very much for the hard work and indeed very interesting numbers. I agree with you conclusion and would like to underline:

1. It shows how well RG is still doing. The above flights are mid-week and are all with excellent loads and, more important, yields. It shows that RG indeed is profitable;

2. GRU, as you correctly pointed out, is a hub, and RG flights depend on connections from other parts of Brazil. We could roughly say that at least 60% of RG traffic in GRU is connecting pax from other parts of the country;

3. GIG is clearly an very important market, and certainly not only a low-yeilding destinations. It generates important loads of F and C class pax for RG;

Rgs,


User currently offlinePPSMA From Brazil, joined Aug 2005, 157 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3669 times:

Hardiwv,

Do you REALLY think this is low season to Europe? Believe me : it´s not.

Those loads come as no surprise as if you check out availability on international carriers you´ll see that all flights are operating well over the average in terms of load factor.

I know for a fact that TAP´s load factor, for instance, has been over 80% in August and September. We can hardly book seats on flights ex-GIG or GRU and only the higher fares in economy are available.

What I mean to say is that luckily RG can AND DOES depend on their strong domestic network to fill up those flights, which is good. However take note that apart AF and AA, there´s nobody else currently flying non-stop to the USA or Europe from GIG, thus locals tend to rely and depend on RG for non-stop and direct flights.

Incidentally, thanks for those number Lipe. They´re REALLY interesting and only proves RG ops is viable, it´s just a matter of managing it right.

Abraços



Aviation is my thing!
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3637 times:

Quoting PPSMA (Reply 2):
Do you REALLY think this is low season to Europe? Believe me : it´s not.

Those loads come as no surprise as if you check out availability on international carriers you´ll see that all flights are operating well over the average in terms of load factor.

Load factors, and yields, of literally all airlines flying to Brazil are high, especially Brazil-Europe, and Brazil-US routes.

But this is NOT July (peak season in Europe) neither December/January (peak season in Brazil).

Very impressive...

For example, KL/AF just reported that in August all flights to Brazil had load factor above 80%.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3535 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 1):
It shows how well RG is still doing. The above flights are mid-week and are all with excellent loads and, more important, yields. It shows that RG indeed is profitable;

Right. But it shows something also: Connections are getting the best price at RG while Sao Paulo pax (IMO) chooses another airlines. We have to look into connections yield (and i imagine, a MAO-GRU-MIA would not be profitable). Looks like RG lost SAO market and is replacing it with connections.


Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 1):
2. GRU, as you correctly pointed out, is a hub, and RG flights depend on connections from other parts of Brazil. We could roughly say that at least 60% of RG traffic in GRU is connecting pax from other parts of the country;

And also shows that RG could hub such flights from GIG. I agree that at least 60% of RG traffic in GRU are connections.

And again, JFK and MIA route (despite its only one day info), shows that RG lost a lot of market in favor of AA, JJ and even CO. MIA gets only 4 biz and 28
Y from Sao Paulo, a little number for a O&D market.

Quoting PPSMA (Reply 2):
Those loads come as no surprise as if you check out availability on international carriers you´ll see that all flights are operating well over the average in terms of load factor.

I know for a fact that TAP´s load factor, for instance, has been over 80% in August and September. We can hardly book seats on flights ex-GIG or GRU and only the higher fares in economy are available.

I think we need to see something very important at Y: Entertainment. With the numbers i can say that SAO pax are using other airlines on Economy, but keeps Fidelity for Biz and First. JJ also all the days get about 200 pax from GIG (up to 24 First and Biz Class Customers) to their EZE, MIA, CDG and SCL flights from GRU, and most of them are Y (and TAM to CDG and MIA offers IFE for Economy Class).

Rgds,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineErikwilliam From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 2152 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3440 times:

Awesome data Lipe.
On the more "important" flights, do you have numbers of revenue also, that way we could see the amount of upgrades and fares recevied.

I´m personaly trilled in a good way about those numbers.
I´m seeing RG grown in GIG in a way I could never predict, and I was one of the ones saying GIG is a low yeld. GRU is praticly gone, and RG is focusing on a place with less competition, maybe on the first true solution to get of this crisis.

Very well done RG.
What a day it tourned out to be, RG and E-190 for B6

One happy Erik right now.



Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3408 times:
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Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 5):
Awesome data Lipe.
On the more "important" flights, do you have numbers of revenue also, that way we could see the amount of upgrades and fares recevied.

Unfortantly no.
But the numbers are in fact, number of tickets bought in a specific class. Upgrades with smiles are not included.

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 5):
I´m seeing RG grown in GIG in a way I could never predict, and I was one of the ones saying GIG is a low yeld. GRU is praticly gone, and RG is focusing on a place with less competition, maybe on the first true solution to get of this crisis.

Erik, RG keep on GIG the first position since 1979. I just try to show that the fact that RG is moving (?) to GRU is somewhat mediocre attitude from RG staff. As you comment, competition on SAO is strong and almost all airlines with better equipment than RG. Also GIG is the airport for Rio de Janeiro (i.e. high number of domestic pax), something that GRU shares with CGH.

I will try to get data from South America flights (also for MEX)

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8942 posts, RR: 40
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3379 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4):
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 1):
It shows how well RG is still doing. The above flights are mid-week and are all with excellent loads and, more important, yields. It shows that RG indeed is profitable;

Right. But it shows something also: Connections are getting the best price at RG while Sao Paulo pax (IMO) chooses another airlines.



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4):
Looks like RG lost SAO market and is replacing it with connections.

My feelings exactly!!!

But your numbers lack on one thing, as you pointed out: GRU pax are going for other carriers, meaning RG is losing very high yielding pax, which makes the above numbers not a very accurate representation of the GRU market. RG may have most of the international market as far as domestic carriers go, but they are dwarfed by foreign carriers. And then there is TAM with a small, yet significant market share.

As you guys said, ~60% seems to be connecting pax. And also as you pointed out, connections erode yields.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4):
I think we need to see something very important at Y: Entertainment.

 checkmark 

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 6):
Also GIG is the airport for Rio de Janeiro (i.e. high number of domestic pax), something that GRU shares with CGH.

Agree, but RG can't be weak in SAO market:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 6):
I just try to show that the fact that RG is moving (?) to GRU is somewhat mediocre attitude from RG staff. As you comment, competition on SAO is strong and almost all airlines with better equipment than RG.

Theoretically, RG would improve service. That will take some time, and that could be one thing that could hurt RG in the short term until they get their service up. But I still feel it's a necessary step. Maybe they move later in 2006?

Take a look at what Erik said:

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 5):
I´m seeing RG grown in GIG in a way I could never predict, and I was one of the ones saying GIG is a low yeld. GRU is praticly gone, and RG is focusing on a place with less competition, maybe on the first true solution to get of this crisis.

As Erik said, maybe a solution. However, RG cannot ignore GRU, simply too big of a market. According to DL numbers, it's half the market. And remember, connections erode profits.

Felipe, I understand your point, and I think there is much truth to it: RG has to offer flights not only from GIG, IMHO, but also from other cities to the U.S. and Europe. They just can't do it right now.

------------------

There was a poll a few months ago that asked public opinion about the airlines. The results were less then surprising (IMO):

Varig is seen as the most "beloved" airline. Too bad love isn't profitable....
TAM was seen as the "best/largest" airline.
GOL as the "cheap" airline (in the financially positive sense  Wink ).

I know what you guys are probably thinking, but I just want to say that this shows that if RG fixes themselves up and make the right choices, they can make a strong come back.

Cheers,
PPVRA  Smile



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3327 times:
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Just after a letter from Rio de Janeiro State ......
Varig announce that it`s not their intention to Reduce flights from GIG or to transfer it`s HQ or any Area to Sao Paulo. And also, they do not improve operations from GIG due to the lack of aircraft.

http://oglobo.globo.com/boaviagemonline/aviacao/169825344.asp
(only in portuguese, sorry)

Seems that RG knows their numbers  Smile

Regards,
LipeGIG  Smile



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineKLM685 From Mexico, joined May 2005, 1577 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3316 times:

Hey, any information about the number of connecting passengers from Rio to MEX?

Thanks



KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8942 posts, RR: 40
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3303 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
Varig announce that it`s not their intention to Reduce flights from GIG or to transfer it`s HQ or any Area to Sao Paulo. And also, they do not improve operations from GIG due to the lack of aircraft.

Were you guys assuming they would drop GIG flights? Per the initial releases, and also the letter above, there is no mentioning of cutting GIG flights, nor moving HQs to SAO. It's all operational as per what I understood.

Btw, RG's CEO has hinted that there is a sense that the new RG should be a LCC. Nothing is official, but the general trend drifts the "low-cost, low-fare" way. Also because a potential investors might choose to lead RG in a different path.

Cheers



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3220 times:
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Quoting KLM685 (Reply 9):
Hey, any information about the number of connecting passengers from Rio to MEX?

I will try to give this info today.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 10):
Btw, RG's CEO has hinted that there is a sense that the new RG should be a LCC. Nothing is official, but the general trend drifts the "low-cost, low-fare" way. Also because a potential investors might choose to lead RG in a different path.

The only way for Varig in domestic (after the end of business class) is a LCC format. Nowadays there is no space for a high level of service on domestic routes due to the high costs. Hope to see RG flying for a long time!

Regards
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3139 times:
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Flight code: 8670
GRU-MEX (14 sep)

PAX................ C: 26 Y: 85
Connections..... C: 06 Y: 52
(GIG).............. C: 03 Y: 14

Flight code: 8942
GRU-CCS

PAX................ C: 12 Y: 108
Connections..... C: 09 Y: 73
(GIG).............. C: 04 Y: 29

Flight code: 8698
GRU-BOG

PAX................ C: 19 Y: 119
Connections..... C: 03 Y: 75
(GIG).............. C: 01 Y: 28

Flight code: 8880
GRU-VVI

PAX................ C: 00 Y: 61
Connections..... C: 00 Y: 46
(GIG).............. C: 00 Y: 09

Flight code: 8936
GIG-GRU-LIM

PAX................ C: 20 Y: 132
Connections..... C: 11 Y: 111
(GIG).............. C: 09 Y: 62

Flight code: 8920
GRU-SCL

PAX................ C: 10 Y: 110
Connections..... C: 03 Y: 65
(GIG).............. C: 01 Y: 21

Flight code: 8640
GRU-EZE (15 sep)

PAX................ F: 01 C: 26 Y: 126
Connections..... F: 01 C: 16 Y: 64
(GIG).............. No Pax

Flight code: 8612
GIG-EZE (15 sep)

PAX................ C: 07 Y: 144
Connections..... C: 02 Y: 18
(GRU).............. No Pax

Flight code: 8614
GIG-EZE (15 sep)

PAX................ Y: 148
(GRU).............. Y: 08
(SSA e REC)..... Y: 41
(Other Connec). Y: 27

And
Flight code: 8836
GIG-GRU-LAX-NRT
(GRU-LAX leg) 14 sep

PAX................ F: 01 C: 34 Y: 161
Connections..... F: 01 C: 18 Y: 154
(GIG).............. F: 00 C: 15 Y: 47

LAX-NRT leg 15 sep

PAX................ F: 03 C: 25 Y: 119
LAX................ F: 02 C: 13 Y: 70
Brasil.............. F: 01 C: 12 Y: 49

Flight code: 8864
GRU-JFK 14 sep

PAX................ F: 05 C: 46 Y: 188
Connections..... F: 04 C: 31 Y: 150
(GIG).............. F: 03 C: 19 Y: 55


I`m trying to get an update on FRA flights, MIA, CDG, LHR, MXP and LIS flights.

One more time, even NRT shows a huge number of connections! Good news, GIG-GRU-LAX seems to be a profitable flight.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offline123 From Bolivia, joined Nov 2003, 745 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3100 times:

The statistics for the GIG/GRU/VVI flight for the 15th of September might be correct and very low - Bear in mind that yesterday was a holiday in CBB; Due to snowstorms the airport in LPB (conection flights!) was closed for many hours, and also today a general strike stopped activities in VVI.

So those pax who had a choice to jump of the flight on time, did the right thing in doing so.

Any chance to get statistics to VVI flights on other days like Sept. 16 maybe, which will be much more realistic for comparisons?

123


User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4000 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3083 times:

The stats show that while significant, GRU local traffic is not as large as most people (myself included) think.

Isn't that a very strong case to have more domestic flights transferred from CGH to GRU? For the passengers that have to switch airports in Sao Paulo the trip is miserable. GRU needs more gates and a reasonably fast rail link with some 3 or 4 stops crossing Sao Paulo.


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8942 posts, RR: 40
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3062 times:

Guys, if we worked at Infraero/DAC, we would either make our industry very efficient or completly sink it--for good!  rotfl   rotfl 

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 14):
The stats show that while significant, GRU local traffic is not as large as most people (myself included) think.

Or that RG lost a lot of the GRU market to other airlines.

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 14):
Isn't that a very strong case to have more domestic flights transferred from CGH to GRU? For the passengers that have to switch airports in Sao Paulo the trip is miserable. GRU needs more gates and a reasonably fast rail link with some 3 or 4 stops crossing Sao Paulo.

Or send them through another airport: GIG (yes, we ARE going to talk about GIG again!). GRU at night is mostly widebodies, not many narrows. I think most narrows are all send to CGH/SDU/CNF/BSB and GIG--which is why GIG can handle connections better than GRU, apart from all the "I hate GRU" stories (reason why I think DL is launching GIG, and AF partnering up with GOL specifically at GIG).

You also make a good point, move flight CGH->GRU. Restrict CGH to less then 3 hour flights, that means JJ/RG can choose to use widebodies to places such as MAO and FOR, and more efficiently since the demand will be concentrated at GRU (improved loads on domestic widebody runs; good for the airlines). We know that TAM doesn't like to run widebodies on the domestic, and for a good reason, but if there is a demand they will do it (e.g. GRU-REC w/ A330). However, CGH has been splitting that demand, while at the same time they are suffocating with less then 3 hour flights...

I don't think there are many passangers that connect for international at CGH (mostly O&D there). Also, GRU would only be able to handle the extra traffic with the improvements that are planned for the next three years -- and that doesn't include the train AFAIK.

Cheers



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineEurostarVA From Bahrain, joined May 2002, 1296 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3046 times:

Gentlemen,

I've read in the following link that VARIG is now planning the resumption of Lagos (Nigeria) flights, probably from Rio de Janeiro. More details are available here:

http://www.thetidenews.com/article.a...20American%20trip&qrColumn=OPINION


Any feedback or confirmation?



If there is a will, there is a way
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2147 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3033 times:

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 16):
I've read in the following link that VARIG is now planning the resumption of Lagos (Nigeria) flights, probably from Rio de Janeiro. More details are available here:

These press releases are all pomp and circumstance, to go along withe hand-shakes and bear hugs. They mean nothing.

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 14):
The stats show that while significant, GRU local traffic is not as large as most people (myself included) think.

Maybe GRU isn't large for RG because the competition is grabbing all the traffic with better service, and RG is left with passengers from Porto Alegre and Goiania who can't fly direct with Air France or American


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8942 posts, RR: 40
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2982 times:

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 16):

I've read in the following link that VARIG is now planning the resumption of Lagos (Nigeria) flights, probably from Rio de Janeiro. More details are available here:

As far as I know RG droppped Lagos because they had their [entire?] crew killed by whomever there. Not because of "difficulties it encountered in the remittance of its earnings." IIRC, they served Lagos with the B747.

Although there probably is a market, I'll believe it when it happens...

Cheers



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2969 times:
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Quoting 123 (Reply 13):
Any chance to get statistics to VVI flights on other days like Sept. 16 maybe, which will be much more realistic for comparisons?

Sure, probably later today.

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 14):
Isn't that a very strong case to have more domestic flights transferred from CGH to GRU? For the passengers that have to switch airports in Sao Paulo the trip is miserable. GRU needs more gates and a reasonably fast rail link with some 3 or 4 stops crossing Sao Paulo.

Probably GRU`s T3 will be all domestic and to handle flights for POA, VIX, GYN, MAO, BEL, FOR, REC, SSA and other destinations (IMO SDU, CWB, BSB, CNF and regional flights will be kept on CGH as it`s about 10 to 12 mm pax per year). With this, about 6 to 8 mm pax will be relocated to GRU.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 15):
I don't think there are many passangers that connect for international at CGH (mostly O&D there)

PPVRA, some places like Ribeirão Preto, Joinville, Navegantes, Maringa, Londrina, Uberlandia, Juiz de Fora, Caxias do Sul, Porto Seguro, Ilheus does not keep operations to GRU. Also, current capacity CNF-GRU (2 flights, one JJ F100 and one RG 733) for example it`s not the size of such market. At least 500 pax come every day from Minas to get international flights , half direct to GRU, half thru CGH. The problem is the lack of huge demand on GRU for two flights return to CNF from GRU at night.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 15):
Or that RG lost a lot of the GRU market to other airlines.

Not only RG, JJ numbers are not so strong for only Sao Paulo. From 3 flights (2 from CDG 1 from MIA) usually JJ connects 100 pax to Rio, about 50 to CNF, and probably more 200 to 300 to other destinations. Sao Paulo is less than 30% (and JJ is a Sao Paulo company!)

Means that International Airlines as DL, AR, LA, CO, IB, AX and others that does not keep code-shares are doing a good job on Sao Paulo market. Brasilia is 40% to 50% connections and now i can say, Sao Paulo is the same!
But we can see how important Sao Paulo is for First Class and Business Class Markets.


Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 16):
I've read in the following link that VARIG is now planning the resumption of Lagos (Nigeria) flights, probably from Rio de Janeiro. More details are available here:

Brazilian Government is pushing Varig and probably also Tam and even Gol (for the future) to start more flights to Africa. Two months ago was Dakar, now Lagos... In fact we see now a development with Pakistan !
Our authorities are looking for new channels for Brazilian Exports (and imports), new markets for tourism, and seems they look civil aviation with different eyes nowadays.
We could see the settlement of Government vs Varig action on STF (Supreme Court) and Varig starting some routes like Lagos, Dakar....

Nigeria is an important market for Brazilian Oil companies, but i have to look into Trade numbers in a way to say that Rio is the best destin. GIG-LDA performs very good, but Lagos is a different market, culture, language...

Quoting AF022 (Reply 17):
Maybe GRU isn't large for RG because the competition is grabbing all the traffic with better service, and RG is left with passengers from Porto Alegre and Goiania who can't fly direct with Air France or American

100% correct AF022, and also, you can see that only markets like LHR and MXP keeps very high loads (IMO due to lack of offer and high demand, both destinations keeps only 14 weekly flights to Brazil). CDG, JFK and MIA keep more people from other city`s than SAO (where you can find 21 other flights to CDG, 14 to JFK/EWR and 33 to MIA)

Rgds,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8942 posts, RR: 40
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2942 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 19):
Also, current capacity CNF-GRU (2 flights, one JJ F100 and one RG 733) for example it`s not the size of such market.

Interesting. What times are these flights? Also, couldn't it be that maybe CNF uses GIG as a connection point instead of GRU?

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 19):
Means that International Airlines as DL, AR, LA, CO, IB, AX and others that does not keep code-shares are doing a good job on Sao Paulo market.

True. But also remember that Brazil-USA bilateral is used fully by US airlines, not Brazilian airlines--we are way behind in using those frequencies. So they will be transporting more pax than RG+JJ.

Cheers



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2851 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 20):
Interesting. What times are these flights? Also, couldn't it be that maybe CNF uses GIG as a connection point instead of GRU?

I'm wrong on the aircrafts used. RG has changed the 733 for a 734 and JJ is using A320. The F100 was used on the past.

RG 2057 - 734 - 19:25 -> GRU 20:30 *
JJ 3343 - A320 - 18:45 -> GRU 20:00 **

* UA code share
** AA code share

Even with those planes, seems to be not much for Minas Gerais market.
I have friends on New York and other american city's that every time need to go thru GIG or CGH.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 2826 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting 123 (Reply 13):
The statistics for the GIG/GRU/VVI flight for the 15th of September might be correct and very low - Bear in mind that yesterday was a holiday in CBB; Due to snowstorms the airport in LPB (conection flights!) was closed for many hours, and also today a general strike stopped activities in VVI

Todays flight:

Flight code: 8884
GIG-GRU-VVI

PAX................ C: 05 Y: 105
Connections..... C: 04 Y: 90
(GIG).............. C: 02 Y: 35

Just for info....
Yesterday CDG-GIG (AF) POB: 394
(C Full)

Rgds,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineSoups From Ghana, joined Jun 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2790 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 18):
As far as I know RG droppped Lagos because they had their [entire?] crew killed by whomever there. Not because of "difficulties it encountered in the remittance of its earnings." IIRC, they served Lagos with the B747.

Although there probably is a market, I'll believe it when it happens...

When the president of Brazil visited Accra, he mention direct air link between Ghana and Brazil, when he visited Dakar he mentioned direct air link between the two countries..... now he mentions direct link between lagos and Brazil... hummmm



Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2788 times:

Soups,
Our President has already asked airlines to fly from Brazil to places like: BEY, MPM, DKR, LOS, ACC, BEY, BOM, HAV, DXB, KHI. It's no surprise. He doesn't really know what to do for governing. Wait for more requests to come. Next are CGK, Ulaan Bataar or Colombo...



Varig, Varig, Varig
25 Plunafan : Do you have the numbers to/from SCL? or MVD?
26 Incitatus : If passengers connect off-line on separate tickets, it's impossible to identify them as connecting, and they get lumped with Sao Paulo local. This ha
27 PPVRA : But aren't we at that point yet? GRU won't be able to handle a lot of traffic increase for the next 3 years or so, at least not at the time all airli
28 LipeGIG : Right, and that's why numbers for Sao Paulo are not so " perfect ". I will try to obtain today's nrs tomorow. Agree 100% Felipe
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