PanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 3835 posts, RR: 97 Posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7877 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW COMMUNITY MANAGER
Sept. 14 (Bloomberg) -- TAP-Transportes Aereos Portugueses SA
probably will buy 11 planes valued at as much as 1.3 billion euros
($1.6 billion) from Airbus SAS, Diario Economico reported without
saying where it got the information.
The state-owned airline gave the Public Works and Transport
Ministry its technical report on the plan to buy 11 A-330 planes
to replace part of its long-range fleet, the Diario said.
The final decision will be made by the airline, the newspaper
said, citing an unidentified person at the ministry. The decision
may be made by the end of the month, the person said.
Not sure of the accuracy given no mention of the A350 or B787 or does this still leave the door open for an A350 order at a later date?
PlaneDane From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7818 times:
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter): Sept. 14 (Bloomberg) -- TAP-Transportes Aereos Portugueses SA
probably will buy 11 planes valued at as much as 1.3 billion euros
($1.6 billion) from Airbus SAS, Diario Economico reported without
saying where it got the information.
Probably will buy? The wording seems a little strange for an announcement...
Really, though, is there anyone out there who doesn't already assume that TAP will go Airbus?
WINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2829 posts, RR: 73 Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7773 times:
Hi everyone, Well I've been reading the original news font and it too is very unclear. It speaks that Tap has chosen to go with Airbus and the A330 to renew its A310 and A340 fleet. It does not speak of the A350, but considering Tap other news report the A330 would only be a stop gap measure until the A350 start to arrive.
WINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2829 posts, RR: 73 Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7652 times:
I just had another look into the news report and its interesting to read that their objective is to take a decision before the end of the month. What's more interesting is that Airbus is to have its board meeting in early October, to decide the full go ahead of the A350 project. This may mean that Tap may be a another pushing force into the launch of the A350.
Quote: Sobre o calendário para a tomada de uma decisão final, a mesma fonte explica que o objectivo é encerrar este dossier “até final do mês”.
CV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7565 times:
Hi!
Just a further update on the TAP order. I was listening the news in the radio and I understood the following:
1 - TAP is going to replace ALL long-haul fleet of A310-300 and the A340-300 by a single model, the A330.
2 - According to the news also they didn't specify if it's gonna be a model or two models of the A330. They said that the A330 could seat has much has 375 passengers..... does the A330-200 get that many passengers? Otherwise we are talking ALSO on the A330-300.... and that would fit perfectly in the replacement of the A340-300!
3 - The first A330 would arrive on 2008.... so it means that TAP will not consider the A350 right away and I think maybe because the A350 is still a little "virtual" TAP wanted to be sure to get an airplane to replace the fleet, and the A330 is now the airplane. Anyway there are no further details but maybe there will be an open point that TAP might evolute to the A350 if the plane comes out.
4 - I think TAP really considered the A350 and the B. 787 but maybe it found out that expecting time of delivery would be too long so instead of see "two birds flying" it took a strong already proven airplane that fits perfectly in TAP, the A330!
I'm happy for TAP and I think TAP is going in a good way!!!
Regards
Thorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7528 times:
I think A332 and A333 would be a good choice for TAP. If they order them now, it will still take 2-3 years until they have all of them. And so they can make a smooth transition from A310 an A340 to A330, easier than switching to Boeing.
I believe the A310s need to go out first, they are just not efficient enough anymore.
Sabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2622 posts, RR: 51 Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7508 times:
Nice order and it proves once again the A330 is far from dead, even with the 787 and A350 at the horizon. Although, due to the high degree of commonality, TAP can probably convert the order to A350 at a very late stage should they want to.
Only 2 types of planes (A32F and A330) for an entire fleet, with the possibility to fly them mixed (just like we do at SN now BTW), what else could you possibly want as an airline?
CV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7449 times:
Hi!
Yes, I agree with you Sabenapilot. TAP will have a pretty neat fleet with 2 common families.... I just think that the timming could have been a little better, maybe 2 or 3 years ago, but I also agree that Mr. Fernando Pinto wanted first to get TAP stronger. The 2005 year is indeed a great year for TAP, first changing the visual, new livery and now the new order!!! I'm just guessing that TAP will equip their A330 with GE engines.... following the latter tradition of having them since the A310 or are we seeing a come back to P&W???
Regards
TAP1972 From Portugal, joined Dec 2003, 396 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7399 times:
Hi guys
I would wait some more time to see what's going to happen. Sometimes newspapers are not so well informed about aviation matters.
2 months ago Mr Fernando Pinto said they were studying both options: A350 and B787.
The A330 could a temporary solution if the decision was for the A350. Also it was said in this forum that TAP was going to take 2 or 3 A330's from Eurowings (???). Is this still valid?
I had been on holidays so I'm not aware of the latest developments.
CV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7357 times:
Hi TAP1972!
Yes, a few months ago the news that came from the portuguese media was regarding the option for the A350 or the B787.....with an intermediate model beeing the A330-200. Now what we have is a firm commitment for the A330... my guess is the fact that we still don't know when the A350 will go ahead and maybe due to that TAP wanted to be sure to have an airplane right awya to replace the A310/340. I said before maybe Airbus have a commitment to inform and maybe it will be an open topic in the contract saying that "TAP can latter convert the order in the new model....". I know well that TAP never wanted to be a front runner when we talk about new models, they preffer to have an airplane tested and having an historic record of operationality than to go front! That decision was the same when TAP ordered the L1049 and from then on you've seen TAP doing mostly like that!
So in my prespective was TAP could not take that long to get a new airplane!
Regards
HEGAN From Spain, joined Feb 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7341 times:
This is a great news indeed.
I really expected TAP to go for Airbus, even though many things had changed since they ordered the A320s.
Will be very nice to see the A330 in the new TAP colors.
As they will start receiving the A330s in 2008, if they lease them for 5 years, will be possible to order the A350 for 2012 deliveries.
Agur,
Hegan
HEGAN: Euskadiko Aeronautikako eta Espazioko Clusterra
HEGAN From Spain, joined Feb 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7276 times:
Agur means bye in Basque.
My username is Hegan, which is the Aeronautics and Space Cluster of the Basque Country, where I live, and that represents the 25% of the Spanish aerospace production.
So, agur.
Hogan
HEGAN: Euskadiko Aeronautikako eta Espazioko Clusterra
WINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2829 posts, RR: 73 Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 23 hours ago) and read 7078 times:
I just found this news report confirming Tap acquisition plans of 11x A330. I how ever have some doubts as to the reliability of this article. It speaks that with this order Tap will be able to save up to 25% on fuel.
Im not the best person to explain this but I doubt that the A330 would save 25% over the A340 and A310.
For this reason I believe that they have opted for the A350 and will use the A330 as a stop gap measure. With this being the most likely scenario.
CV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 21 hours ago) and read 6841 times:
Hi!
First of all, I don't want to give a hard time to our Basque fellows, but you have to agree, I was miles away from understanding that Agur meant goodbye!!! But I'm happy to have some Basque enthusiasts in this specific topic about TAP and let me tell you that I've in Euskadia 2 times and I really enjoyed the place, but..... that language is so difficult that I can't catch a word. The only word I remember that I understood really well was Itixita, that means Exit from the highway!
Now let's get to the topic, why is TAP ordering the A330 and NOT the A350? I think TAP needs badly an airplane to replace the A310/A340, if we can say that the A340 is still a young airplane the version TAP has, 312 version is really a "pain in the ***". I flew TAP A340 and I flew SWISS A340 ( 312 versus 313X ) and the TAP one draggs...... The normal procedure when you fly from LIS to Brazil is, you normally take off from RN03 or 31 and they you start to built SLOWLY speed until you get to a "decent" flight level. I took-off from RN03 and I was just leaving portuguese coast and I was still low!!!!! So the A340 is an airplane to leave soon, the A310 is old, so TAP can't wait 6/7 years to replace those airplanes, 2008 is a fairly decent date but has I told before it could have been earlier than that!!!
Regards
PPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 7947 posts, RR: 49 Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 21 hours ago) and read 6807 times:
Quoting CV990 (Reply 8): 2 - According to the news also they didn't specify if it's gonna be a model or two models of the A330. They said that the A330 could seat has much has 375 passengers..... does the A330-200 get that many passengers? Otherwise we are talking ALSO on the A330-300.... and that would fit perfectly in the replacement of the A340-300!
Brazilian media is reporting A330-300s, not -200s. Although I believe A332s at least should be included in the deal. But that's just my opinion....
Cheers
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
RoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 7211 posts, RR: 50 Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 months 20 hours ago) and read 6734 times:
Quoting CV990 (Reply 8): Otherwise we are talking ALSO on the A330-300.... and that would fit perfectly in the replacement of the A340-300!
Why would you replace A340-300s with A330-300s? The planes are very similar. If TAP prefered the A330, then why did they buy the A340 in the first place? I can understand an A330-200 order since that is a newer derivative to replace the aging A310s, but A333s for A343s makes no sense at all unless the airline does not need the extra range of the A340 or the fleet is not aging well.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
WINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2829 posts, RR: 73 Reply 24, posted (6 years 5 months 20 hours ago) and read 6643 times:
Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 23): Why would you replace A340-300s with A330-300s? The planes are very similar. If TAP prefered the A330, then why did they buy the A340 in the first place? I can understand an A330-200 order since that is a newer derivative to replace the aging A310s, but A333s for A343s makes no sense at all unless the airline does not need the extra range of the A340 or the fleet is not aging well.
Thats right, range was the major factor to why Tap chose the A340-300 vs the A330. At the time Tap ordered the A340 they had Macau, (China) in mind.
Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
25 MaverickM11: That would be a good thing. There is no reason for TP to have a four engined aircraft unless they start service to the Far East again.
26 Airbazar: With RG droping their Japan flights they could very well be returning to that part of the World by using LIS as a hub between Brazil and Japan/China.
27 TAP340: Does the A330-300 have the range to perform LIS-GIG/GRU? Considering the hot Brazilian conditions. I also wonder what is TAP going to do with the A340
28 TAP340: IMHO you cannot possible make such a comparison, since you don't know the exact loads. If you do know them... well! Comparison accepted!
29 A360: Well... as for routes, I don't believe an A330-300 would be able to do JNB-LIS (8173 km)! JNB is farthest than GRU, and it's also hot and high! I don'
30 WINGS: If that's the case than JNB would be downsized in capacity. The A330-200 does not match the same capacity as its older brother the A340-300. This is
31 MaverickM11: TP does not need the capacity of the 340 on the JNB run unless it improves its spotty JNB schedule. A smaller aircraft will help it add more consiste
32 Glareskin: So the 2 major airlines on the Iberian peninsula are full Airbus fleet. WWOW!!
33 TAP1972: Iberia still has a few B757's , B747's and MD80's
34 PM: Fascinating to see how the A330 is still selling so well...
35 TAP1972: I have the same type of doubt, if TAP plans to expand and open new routes to far east for example, will the A330's be a good option???? As someone me
36 FCKC: I totally agree with what TP1972 thinks.I have exactly the same feeling. The newly delivered A330s will replace A310s , and then A350s will replace A3
37 Airbazar: The A332 would be perfect for the far east and JNB. At the specified 5650nm range in a 3 class configuration, the A333 however would have a hard time
38 BoeingBus: This is only a report folks. Until we hear it directly from TP than it could be anything. I would be highly surprised that TP right now would just ord
39 Airbazar: In terms of fleet acquisitions you have to agree however, that TAP management has done pretty well over the years, whith the exception of the L1011's
40 Glareskin: Yes, but didn't they plan to phase them out?
41 A350: I wonder if the years 2008 and 2009 aren't opportunities to get A330s very cheap. The A350 will come in 2010 and will be superior to the A330 in any w
42 TAP340: It is needed in the GRU and GIG runs though.
43 Pyrex: But TAP needs the capacity to Maputo, which isn't much closer to Lisbon than JNB... Miguel
44 TAP340: Organics??? Eu sou o Camone! Sorry about the Portuguese, but it's not common to find an older college in an aviation forum.
45 Georgiabill: I am confused. It was my understanding Tap liked their 1011's? Perhaps having Lockheed close down the line made them orphans,but the crews and passeng
46 Pyrex: Bem me parecia que eras tu! Vai ler o meu trip report Sorry about the portuguese again...
47 A360: Maputo is even farther away from LIS than JNB is. But the JNB-LIS leg is much "tougher" because JNB is a hot and high airport. There was a topic some
48 TAP340: So did maintenance and engineering! I once talked to the mechanics there and they said it one of the toughest (They told me that once a L1011, with a
49 CV990: Hi! According to the news TAP choosed the A330 to replace both A310 and A340 and they will buy 11 units. In the morning I listened in the radio that T
50 DETA737: I actually think that the A330-200 would be ideal on flights to Johannesburg and Maputo. I know Maputo will go to three weekly soon, perhaps eventuall
51 Airbazar: Unfortunately to increase capacity they need more aircraft but TAP is only increasing the size of their fleet by only one aircraft. Of course they di
52 CV990: Hi! I think TAP with this order will come to a very nice fleet after a few years of losing their identy ordering some airplanes that in some cases the
53 Pyrex: Isn't the problem with increasing frequencies to Maputo the bilateral treaties? I know that is an issue with Luanda... Miguel
54 TAP340: And how about cargo? Perhaps the plane cargo compartments were all full. It is true that the climb rate of the A340's is rather... Bad, but one can o
55 WINGS: I was able to get access to another news article referring the acquastion of the 11x A330. It explains that the first A330 will be arriving in early 2
56 CV990: Hi! Like WINGS said the major points on TAP order are: 1 - TAP got a substancial redution of the price because TAP wants to own the 11 airplanes. 2 -
57 PM: I wonder... There still seems to be remarkable life left in it. It is still selling well and Airbus are pumping them out now like never before. In ti
58 PhotoLPPT: Hi, These are the 5 A330 leased as an interim solution until the arrival of the A330s in 2008. The delivery date is around January 2006. Serial number
59 WINGS: Thanks for the update PhotoLPPT, So do we actually have a confirmation that Tap will be actually getting the 5x leased A330? Would you know if these 5
60 CV990: Hi! Not wanting to doubt your source PhotoLPPT can you enlight us a bit about that! Everything you say makes a lot of sense so I wonder if it was from
61 BoeingBus: I agree. But then again, this is expected as the A350 won't be available till after this decade. 5-7 years is a lot of time for the A330 to produce m
62 PanAm_DC10: Wings and CV990 Thank you both very much, amongst other locals, for the updates and information. I've gained a good deal of information on TAP that I
63 CV990: Hi PanAm_DC10!!! Thanks for your kind words.... I only feel a bit embarassed that you ACTUALLY you came first than us ( portuguese ) with that excelen
64 PanAm_DC10: That's the whole point of a forum like this, good civil conversation where people get to learn something and yes, I was in Australia when I posted th
65 PhotoLPPT: Olá Wings e CV990! My info comes from some friends working at TAP. One works on the fleet assignment/planning sector and other at TAP ME. Also, there
66 WINGS: No worries PanAm, I too would like to thank you for those kind words. Ps: Am sure you didn't know but am both a Portuguese and Australian citizen. So
67 Airbazar: That's great news. I expect to see some of that extra capacity on the Brazil to Germany routes just in time for WC2006. Speaking of which, with Brazi
68 CV990: Hi! I would imagine that!!!! Good information of course! It reminds me the time when I had a guy in TAP that I visited regulary in late 70's early 80'
69 PanAm_DC10: Wings and CV990 and other locals I need your assistance again The same Newspaper is carrying a report that the TAP order may be delayed; Sept. 30 (Blo
70 WINGS: Hi PanAm, well I just did a quick search on the Diario Economico website and I was unable to find any news release regarding this lastest update. Wou
71 PM: They just had one. And it looks great! Might their membership of Star be a factor? Lufthansa, SAS, bmi and Air Canada all have RR. Thai, Austrian, As
73 PanAm_DC10: Thanks PhotoLPPT you know your local scene very well Wings unfortunately the news service I use does not enable me to post a link and it only provides
74 WINGS: Thanks PhotoLPPT, I was unable to find the news article my self. Well PanAm the article is not very conclusive. It is basicly mentioning that the Fina
75 TAP1972: Also, 2 weeks ago the oposition party requested additional information about this deal. It comes also on www.diarioeconomico.com Let's jut hope the po
76 Pyrex: Bloody politicians, trying to mess up progress in Portugal. Worst case scenario the company goes bust and the bank repossesses the aircraft, it's not
77 WINGS: Have to agree with you on that one. I just wish they put some one at least inteligent as oposition. Unfortunatly until Tap is privatised politicians
78 Pyrex: The oposition to the new Lisbon airport is mainly demagogical. It is an undisputable fact that Lisbon needs a new airport and a city that small does n
79 BoeingBus: Something tells me that "it's not over till the fat lady sings".... I find these statements from the Portuguese media to be premature. Otherwise, why
80 TAP1972: Hi BoingBus Because the government is the shareholder, it will take a while until TAP places an order. The government will want to understand very cl
81 WINGS: Very nicely written. The government will have to explain detail by detail to the opostion parties regarding this large investment. Portugal is going
82 Pyrex: This investment will be made by TAP, not the Portuguese Government, so I do not see why it has to be explained to anyone but the shareholders of the c
83 BoeingBus: I agree. But this doesn't prevent Airbus announcing a big A330 win! I also think that if TP was serious in A330 they would have made public statements
84 WINGS: Hi Pyrex, Tap is currently state owned. For that matter the government is its shareholders. They are intiteld to an explanation when they see fit. Le
85 TAP1972: Is Lufthansa to dispose 5 planes in a row? Are they going to replace them? If they come to TAP, it will be great, I've taken a look in some cabin pho
86 Ivo: Hi, I just reed somewhere that 2 A340-300 from Tap will be leased to the French Air Force. That deal is together with the mx contract Tap got for the
87 WINGS: No Ivo, Tap will be doing maintenace work on the two Ex Austrian A340-200, which are headed to the French Air Force. The contract is for a period of
88 A342: Only 2 are coming from LH, the others are currently parked in CGN, originally destined for Bluewings (BWG). Do a search, you´ll find the pics.
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