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B-757 Most Efficient Airplane At Lufthansa  
User currently offlineDelta777Jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1247 posts, RR: 3
Posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10977 times:

The annual report of 2004 stated that the B-757-300 followed by the B-757-200 (even so they where Condor operated they are still part of the Lufthansa Company) where the most fuel efficient planes in fleet! How come the have all the new airbusses when the older Boeing`s (esp. The -200 where over 12 years old ) where more fuel efficient? What`s the point in buying a new airbus if an 15 year old B-757 is more fuel efficient esp. Nowadays with oil prices over 70$?


Fly easyJet
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3811 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10942 times:

Maybe because LH's 757s are flying charter, and charter tends to have higher load factors than mainline. I'm pretty sure this is the reason.


All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineBackfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10910 times:

Maybe it's because they got shot of them to Russia which means someone else is paying for the fuel Big grin

User currently offlinePlanemannyc From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1007 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10902 times:
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How was this analysis done? Is it based on fuel burn per available seat? Perhaps Condor's layout allows for more rows of seats than Lufthansa would have done for its own aircraft (seat pitch) and therefore, has a higher available seating capacity. Just a thought, this is not scientific proof.

On a related note, I think that the 757 is the sleekest aircraft in the air today, and I am sad to see the production line come to an end.

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc


User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10891 times:

It simply depends on where, when and how an aircraft is used. Condor's operating profile is totally different from Lufthansa's. Both airlines operate independantly, therefore issues such as route structure, class differentiation, spares and cockpit commonality, crew training, cargo capability and many more have to be considered for evaluating the best performing aircraft.

Lufthansa once tested the B753 on domestic routes and found it unsuitable on its network. You can be sure they would use the aircraft if it made economic sense.


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10875 times:

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 1):
Maybe because LH's 757s are flying charter, and charter tends to have higher load factors than mainline. I'm pretty sure this is the reason.

That's almost it.

The 757 is like a truck in that respect. You only see its real ability when you load it up and make it work for its keep. The British charter 757s are extraordinarily efficient when packed to the rafters with all Y class and a full baggage load.

So if you are operating close to maximum weights then fuel used to shift each kilo of payload does not suffer as the 757 is overpowered when compared to many other aircraft.


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10812 times:

Condor leisure flights of 3-4 hours are a totally different opertion then hopping around in Germany (e.g A300) and Western Europe.

That being said the 753 appears to have very low seat mile costs


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12358 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10507 times:

I'm not sure what the point of the thread is, but LH/Condor should be complemented for putting the B757 to good use.


Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10461 times:

The 753 is an excellent performer and particularly suited to the European IT market. I only wish other charter operators in the UK had realised the potential of this aircraft.

Packed in a high density layout, the 753 can seat 280 pax.


User currently offlineEha From France, joined May 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10426 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):

That being said the 753 appears to have very low seat mile costs

You wonder why only 55 of them have ordered worldwide...A whopping 5% of all 757 ordered.

E.


User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10256 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 8):
The 753 is an excellent performer and particularly suited to the European IT market. I only wish other charter operators in the UK had realised the potential of this aircraft.

We had this debate here a while back and you are absolutely correct except for one point.

The 757 was developed by Boeing with a wing that would be future-proof and allow for the 753 to be launched. However Boeing launched the 753 far too late in the product cycle. If they had offered it much earlier to the charter operators then you may have seen Britannia liveried 753s plus other operators.

You cannot sell an airliner to an airline twice (in this context). Many carriers already had the 752 fleets in place, and adding a couple of these aircraft causes all sorts of scheduling issues as well as crewing issues (extra cabin crew) when there is an increase in the number of passengers. So the 753 was only taken up by JMC, Arkia and Condor who chose to overcome those issues.

It really is a shame as they are excellent haulers on the IT routes. Maybe BY would have bought a fleet of them instead of the 752, or TCX, or.....who knows.


User currently offlineCodeshare From Poland, joined Sep 2002, 1854 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10232 times:

This is exactly happening with Fischer Air Polska's two 757s. The're always 200+ full doing charter routes.


How much A is there is Airliners Net ? 0 or nothing ?
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10178 times:

They are probably most fuel efficient per single Passenger, because the Passenger has the least space in it. If all LH planes had this amount of density in it, then the B753 would not be the most fuel-efficient, the A343 with nine abreast and 71cm distance (28in, for the American friends) between the rows would probably be the most fuel efficient.  crowded 

User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4746 posts, RR: 45
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10175 times:

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 10):
So the 753 was only taken up by JMC, Arkia and Condor who chose to overcome those issues.

Are you also forgetting CO, NW and Icelandair?



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineKonrad From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 523 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9830 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 12):
the A343 with nine abreast and 71cm distance (28in, for the American friends) between the rows would probably be the most fuel efficient.

The downside of this A343 configuration being that it would require a 23000 feet runway (7000m, for the European friends), preferably one going downhill, to make the thing leave the ground...


User currently offlineLindy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9781 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 13):
Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 10):
So the 753 was only taken up by JMC, Arkia and Condor who chose to overcome those issues.

Are you also forgetting CO, NW and Icelandair?

And also ATA.

Rafal


User currently onlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6713 posts, RR: 32
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9522 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 12):
They are probably most fuel efficient per single Passenger, because the Passenger has the least space in it. If all LH planes had this amount of density in it, then the B753 would not be the most fuel-efficient, the A343 with nine abreast and 71cm distance (28in, for the American friends) between the rows would probably be the most fuel efficient.

SeatGuru.com claims that the economy-class seat width on LH's A340-600, at 8-across, is 17 inches. Northwest's 757-300 offers seats that are 17.2" wide in the standard six-across configuration. Your assertion that the A340 would offer similar comfort when configured 9-abreast is therefore specious.

Quoting Eha (Reply 9):
You wonder why only 55 of them have ordered worldwide...A whopping 5% of all 757 ordered.

The 757-300 came along very late in the history of the type, and I think it took quite a while for the airlines to pick up on what a great moneymaker the 757-300 could be for its operators. The 757-200 sold somewhat slowly in its first few years as well. The travails of most of the U.S. airlines and decreased demand globally in 2001-2003 were the end for the 757; I'm sure there are quite a few operators today who are wishing Boeing hadn't been forced to shut down the 757 line.


User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9509 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 13):

Are you also forgetting CO, NW and Icelandair?

I was unaware they were European IT charter airlines. Does this mean we will see Northwest 753s operating BHX-IBZ then?


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21476 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9460 times:

If only they would dump those 757s and upgrade them to A32Xs...  Wink


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9438 times:

Also, remember, the 757 is RARELY, if ever, cargo or passenger restricted. HP's 757 fleet is the only plane that has no worries about taking off at PHX or LAS in the summer.


Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9430 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 18):
If only they would dump those 757s and upgrade them to A32Xs...

they have done, unfortunately. Some have been sold on to a Russian carrier.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9395 times:

Quoting Lindy (Reply 15):
And also ATA.

For now. The transfer of TZ's 753 fleet makes CO the largest operator, as such.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineOurboeing From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 475 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7680 times:

Love that bird..

Cheers..

OURBOEING


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7454 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 16):
SeatGuru.com claims that the economy-class seat width on LH's A340-600, at 8-across, is 17 inches. Northwest's 757-300 offers seats that are 17.2" wide in the standard six-across configuration. Your assertion that the A340 would offer similar comfort when configured 9-abreast is therefore specious.

17 inches is 43 cm, LH A340s do have 47.5 cm wide seats in the economy class. Take this calculation: 47.5cm x 8 is 380cm. Divide that by 9 and you're at 42.2 cm. Difference is .8cm, which is less than 1/3 of an inch.

Quoting Konrad (Reply 14):
The downside of this A343 configuration being that it would require a 23000 feet runway (7000m, for the European friends), preferably one going downhill, to make the thing leave the ground...

In Germany, everything is going downhill.


User currently offlinePrimetimeDC9 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6609 times:

the 757 and A320 are the most fuel efficient in the sky, i don't know which is better, i know the 757 is more fuel efficient than the 321

25 B744F : I love the power of the 757's engines. It's too bad it never really caught on and was overshadowed by the 767, 747, 737, Airbus series, etc. In Americ
26 Atmx2000 : Never caught on? 1049 757s have been delivered. Now it has been overshadowed by the sexier widebodies, but it has sold more units than any widebody h
27 HT : For DE charter op´s the B752 and B753 proved to be too big to fill on routes from some of the "smaller" german airports. When DE introduced the A320
28 Shenzhen : You probably forgot an armrest.
29 Udo : Not necessarily. Depends on the route, layout, loads. The B757 is much heavier, never forget. Regards Udo
30 Thorben : Should be included.
31 GodBless : So soon the 753 should be even more fuel efficient, since they will be reconfigured from 252 to 276 seats... Max
32 Post contains links and images Lightsaber : True. Unless you can fill up a 757, its not making money. Don't forget, the 753 was launched during an airline downturn. No one buys larger aircraft
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