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Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation  
User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1896 posts, RR: 27
Posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5439 times:

Hello,

I usually go spotting at FLL, specially because of the 767-400ER. So, I've noticed that DL serves ATL five times a day, three of them with the 764 (DL456, DL787, DL365).

The 764 is equiped to carry up to 285 passengers and fly up to 6,480 miles. So, is this route profitable being a 581 mile journey flying 3 times a day with this kind of aircraft?

And also, is the other 763 flight (DL1770) profitable as well?

I know there's another conversation about this A/C, but this specific operation doubts me.

Thanks,

Greetings!


Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5399 times:

DL serves ATL-FLL more than 5 times a day. These flights are VERY full. ATL-FLL is a huge O&D market, as well as connecting flights. It's unknown whether these flights are profitable. Fares aren't high, but that is likely made up in volume.

Jeremy


User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5386 times:

Better soak them up.


It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineFLAIRPORT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5334 times:

Delta used to fly about 3 more times on the route, but everything has been messed up and with this being a lower travel time I am not suprised to see a drop in service and I would not be suprised to see it return some time soon.
That being said...
DL has 10X daily (11 to ATL TUE and 11 from ATL WED)
5X 764
2X 763
1X 762
1X M80
1X 738
--------
2425 seats
+199 Tue
--------
2524 seats on Tuesday

and that is MUCH lower than usual!


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5332 times:

DL uses the 764 (and 763) on the ATL-FLL route for capacity......DL needs a lot of seats out of its ATL megahub to a very popular destination such as FLL.

The 767 series can handle short flights such as ATL-FLL and make a profit.......especially when all of the seats are filled, which is very typical out of FLL. As you probably know, DL flew 1011s on the ATL-FLL route for years (all varieties) for the same reason - capacity - and DL went with the 764 as its 1011 replacement since it could fly both short and longerhaul routes.

As pointed out above, the number of flights on the ATL-FLL routes varies depending upon the the time of year with Sept/Oct being a low-demand period.


User currently offlineXkorpyoh From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5282 times:

I have taken that flight several times. always full but feels very comfortable with the 777 interiors and PTV in first class.
I am also surprised that they dont use the newer 764 on transatlantic flights since most passengers complaint about the older looking 763 on those routes. They could still use the older 763 on the shorter ATL-FL flights for capacity as the impression of the older plane wouldn't matter for a 2 hour flight.


User currently offlineXkorpyoh From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5275 times:

..another thing.. if the O/D from Florida is so high for them and they already have the loyal customers, why not offer more nonstop flights from FL to markets that can sustain it instead of funeling everybody on a 764 through ATL?. (hint: more Song flights)
ATL normally becomes a mess with bad weather or ATC delays and is the only reason i try to avoid it (yeah right!). They really need to reduce the number of flights there and offer more nonstop where it can be done profitably.
The 764 could be better used for transatlantic markets.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5185 times:

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 6):
why not offer more nonstop flights from FL to markets that can sustain it instead of funeling everybody on a 764 through ATL?. (hint: more Song flights)

What do you think DL has been doing in the last 12 months?!?


User currently offlineFLAIRPORT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5120 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
As pointed out above, the number of flights on the ATL-FLL routes varies depending upon the the time of year with Sept/Oct being a low-demand period.

And, even in the low time, it is a business oriented route, so it will fill up.

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 6):
..another thing.. if the O/D from Florida is so high for them and they already have the loyal customers, why not offer more nonstop flights from FL to markets that can sustain it instead of funeling everybody on a 764 through ATL?. (hint: more Song flights)

At least from FLL, ATL is a big destination. I don't know how many times I have gone to baggage claim at ATL and 90% of the plane is there. FLL-ATL is a hige O&D route! The early flights from ATL fill up (and a lot of people are at the gate real early!) and the late flights to ATL fill up...and if you ever look at the crowd on a FLL-ATL flight, it is a suit and tie crowd except in the high travel season...but yes, they can fill 2524 seats on a Tuesday and I'd say maybe 500-600 are connecting and 1924 are nonstop or through passengers.


User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1896 posts, RR: 27
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5101 times:

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 6):
The 764 could be better used for transatlantic markets.

That's exactly what I though when this aircraft came out. It's supposed to be an excellent airplane in all the terms of the word. According to Delta's site, they own 21 of them, and as far as I'm concerned, they're all under a domestic configuration. Isn't this illogic?

Anyways, how many airlines use this type? Is it successful?



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineFLAIRPORT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5090 times:

797...appearently you need to take a trip to Floirda...then your opinion will be swayed.

User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5085 times:

Only Continental and Delta use the 764. Kenya Airways (IIRC) ordered some but changed the order to other Boeing types. DL used it as a domestic L1011 replacement--hence the 285 seats. Continental's are international birds with only 250 or so seats--with PTVs and 32" of pitch--much more comfortable.


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5076 times:

Quoting 797 (Reply 9):
Isn't this illogic?

No. The 764 was meant as the domestic workhorse replacement for the L-1011, and nothing else. There is a reason why DL has more seats on their 764s than on their 777s: The capacity is simply needed, both on the Florida flights, as well as the Hawaii flights.

Quoting 797 (Reply 9):
Anyways, how many airlines use this type?

2, DL and CO.

Quoting 797 (Reply 9):
Is it successful?

37 planes ordered by 2 airlines. I'll let you decide for yourself whether that is successful.


User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5059 times:

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 11):
37 planes ordered by 2 airlines. I'll let you decide for yourself whether that is successful.

LOL--very nice way to put that.
The 764 ended up being a niche aircraft; from what I understand CO and DL are pleased with the performance in regards to their tasks--a commercial success  indifferent 



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineLitz From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1767 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5050 times:
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Quoting SESGDL (Reply 1):
DL serves ATL-FLL more than 5 times a day. These flights are VERY full. ATL-FLL is a huge O&D market, as well as connecting flights. It's unknown whether these flights are profitable. Fares aren't high, but that is likely made up in volume.

Think cruise ships ... DL is moving lots and lots of people onto and off of cruise ships ... Anytime you fly into FLL, there's huge numbers headed off to the piers.

That's why the huge capacity (and the fact that it's FILLED).

Same thing for Disney and Orlando.

- litz


User currently offlineFLAIRPORT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5011 times:

Quoting Litz (Reply 14):
Think cruise ships ... DL is moving lots and lots of people onto and off of cruise ships ... Anytime you fly into FLL, there's huge numbers headed off to the piers.

Cruise ships cover the weekend...business covers weekdays.


User currently offlineJetpixx From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 869 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4920 times:

I like flying on the 764 on the FLL-ATL and ATL-FLL legs. They are a comfortable aircraft with the leather headrest, etc. I didn't realize how scarce they were and how lucky I should be flying on them - lol.

In any event, on my last flight two weeks ago - I flew the 738 from FLL-ATL. I guess that was lucky, too, seeing that is the only flight of the day!

Anyway, I hope DL pulls out of their Ch. 11 - as FLL would have a lot to lose if they went bye-bye.


User currently offlineLongbowPilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 577 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4876 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

o/d? what the heck is that?

I know i'm going to be kicking myself in the A$$ when i'm told because i should know/remember this from when i was a wiget worker bee.


User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4858 times:

Origin/Destination not connecting traffic


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineCslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 842 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4795 times:

-I think that DL should rethink its strategy at FLL. I think that DL should convert to its Song-banner its 581 mi long FLL-ATL route, and its 931 mi long FLL-CVG route. I think Song could successfully fly almost hourly with 12-13 times daily on FLL-ATL and a once daily FLL-CVG (and twice daily on Fridays and Saturdays).

If FLL-ATL goes Song, then the 763s and 764s that fly the route could be redeployed to higher yielding international routes.



--cslusarc from YWG
User currently offlineFLAIRPORT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4779 times:

Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 19):
-I think that DL should rethink its strategy at FLL. I think that DL should convert to its Song-banner its 581 mi long FLL-ATL route, and its 931 mi long FLL-CVG route. I think Song could successfully fly almost hourly with 12-13 times daily on FLL-ATL and a once daily FLL-CVG (and twice daily on Fridays and Saturdays).

If FLL-ATL goes Song, then the 763s and 764s that fly the route could be redeployed to higher yielding international routes.

You're kidding, right?

One of the big moneymakers for song is the movies and food...nobody will atke a flight of 581 miles and eat a full meal for $7 and enjoy a movie! They fly 1X weekly FLL-ATL and only offer the picnic basket items. Plus, SLC-FLL, ATL-FLL, CVG-FLL are all AS MUCH LIESURE AND VFR as it is is business.


User currently offlineDazed767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5498 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4758 times:

Central and S. Fla are pretty big routes for them.

ATL-MCO has:
2 x 777
3 x 764
5 x 763
1 x 757
2 x MD80

ATL-PBI has:
1 x 764
3 x 763
1 x 762
3 x 757
1 x 738

TPA also sees 5 767s


User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4743 times:

Plus 764s would have to be reconfigured--ATL-LIM is the only international route the 764 has done.


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4744 times:

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 22):
ATL-LIM is the only international route the 764 has done.

On a scheduled basis that is. The 764 has occasionally been swapped to CUN, and AUA also IIRC.


User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4715 times:

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 10):
797...appearently you need to take a trip to Floirda...then your opinion will be swayed.



Quoting 797 (Thread starter):

I usually go spotting at FLL,

Seems like he's been there before...maybe I missed something?

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
25 797 : Nah, you haven't missed anything. I was confused about this aircraft's situation, but thanks to you guys, it's clear. I do go often to Florida, at le
26 FLAIRPORT : I missed that...but I was trying to say, fly on the DL764 and you'll see why they use it.
27 JasYHZ : Flew the 764 two years ago BOS-ATL. Very nice a/c and service was superb. My Bette Midler look-alike F/A was great and stashed a few 20 pack of Biscof
28 Post contains images F27XXX : Damn her! There's why Delta is in CH 11 now is these overly friendly F/As. Blame them !! 20 cookies to one passenger .. OY!! I never did trust that Be
29 Cschleic : I've flown DL 767-400's a few times between ATL and FLL, plus 767-300's. Always packed, even leaving FLL at 5:30am! Lots of sun burned cruise passenge
30 Post contains images PanAm330 : That'd be 2624, Cheech. I'm surprised someone else didn't catch that first. As for the topic at hand, like everybody else has said, DL offers this nu
31 Pbiflyer : No more 767-400's at FLL in the new Dec schedule. ATL goes to: 3 - 763 1 - 737-800 6 - 757 A lot less seats from all of Florida to ATL in the new sche
32 777STL : Back in 2003, even RSW saw 12 daily 763s + 1 daily MD88. I don't know if it's still at those levels but that's a lot of capacity for a destination th
33 MAH4546 : The updates probably will change again regarding the reduced widebody Florida flights.
34 Pbiflyer : Thanks, I certainly hope so, as there are several dates where some of the now MD88 PBI - ATL flights only have first class seats left. Same problem w
35 Dazed767 : RSW has 1 767 still (-200), but that will be gone at the end of the month. ATL-MCO winter sked changed dramatically as well (no more 777s): 2 x 764 2
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