Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200  
User currently offlineOSA330 From Austria, joined Jun 2005, 59 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4887 times:

Austrian Airlines has announced the sale of their two Airbus A340-200. The aircraft will be handed over to a French investment group at the end of winter flight plan and at the end of summer flight plan 2006 respectively.
AUA said that the A342 were inefficient to operate because of the amount of seats, and that the sale will contribute to a harmonized fleet.

I am highly interested in the new aircraft replacing the A342. Will they really acquire 777?

[Edited 2005-09-15 09:49:38]

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4842 times:

AUA has been looking to get rid of their two A342s for years - there were rumors of seveal proposed deals which never came to be (for example, the deal with Aerflot which involved the trade of AUA A342s for Aeroflots two 777s)....there is a limited market for the A342 which sold in small numbers, most airlines prefer the extra seats of the A343 to the range advantage of the A342.

I am glad that AUA could complete a deal - I wonder where the A342s will end up?

Will AUA order the 772 - who knows? The mixed fleet of ex-Lauda Boeings and AUA Airbus' really does not make a lot of sense......we may see some rationalization of the AUA fleet in the coming years.


User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4692 posts, RR: 43
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4833 times:

I'd rather expect more A332, finances permitting. The OS Group isn't doing very well at the moment.


Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4763 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 1):
I am glad that AUA could complete a deal - I wonder where the A342s will end up?

There was a topic few days ago that the french govn. would buy them.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 1):
Will AUA order the 772 - who knows?

If I was you, I would make a bet Big grin


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4734 times:

Already discussed :

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2312899


User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4346 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 1):
most airlines prefer the extra seats of the A343 to the range advantage of the A342.

... which today hardly exists anymore as most/many A340-300s have been upgraded to X-Standard. Also many of the recent production models have E-standard ... today it is really a niche aircraft for long and thin routes like JNB-PER for instance. At latest with the advent of the 787/A350 they will become obsolete ...


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4680 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4217 times:

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 5):
At latest with the advent of the 787/A350 they will become obsolete ...

They are popular as executive aircraft and will continue to do so, just like the B747 SP.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineQuestAir From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 367 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4173 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 6):
They are popular as executive aircraft and will continue to do so, just like the B747 SP.

I believe Qatar Emiri Flight has at an A340 in its fleet, even though they might have gotten rid of this.... not sure.



'Do we carry rich people on our flights? Yes, I flew on one this morning and I�m very rich.' - Michael O'Leary
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2171 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4138 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting OSA330 (Thread starter):
AUA said that the A342 were inefficient to operate because of the amount of seats, and that the sale will contribute to a harmonized fleet.

In what way? Too many seats or not enough seats?

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 2):
I'd rather expect more A332, finances permitting.

That would give them an aircraft about the same size as the 342. Number of seats the right size then?



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4680 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4119 times:

Quoting QuestAir (Reply 7):
I believe Qatar Emiri Flight has at an A340 in its fleet, even though they might have gotten rid of this.... not sure.

Yes. In an article about Qatar Amiri Flight I read that besides of an ACJ, they had an A342 and an A310. They also have a new A332 for Amiri Flight which was included in the Qatar Airways order and the article says they want to sell either the A310 or the A342 after the new aircraft arrived. However, Amiri Flight is now getting a brand-new A345, too ! I guess they will sell both the A342 and the A310 now (if they don´t need them anymore).


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Helmut Bierbaum


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Florian Negele



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Fritz


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Robert Matthews - FliteZoneImages



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Thierry ducros




Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineBohlman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4086 times:

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 2):
The OS Group isn't doing very well at the moment.

How do you figure that? They've posted profits for the past three years (at least, that's all they had on their website. I can check further later), and more importantly, their revenue has stayed well ahead of their operating costs, even in an environment where fuel prices have practically doubled. While they may not be matching the (supposed) powerhouse expansion of airlines like EK, to be posting profits at a time in which their management is still in somewhat of a turmoil, they're expanding their fleet (738s), helping to foot the bill for the expansion of VIE, and generally unstable economic conditions (i.e. Oil Prices, LCC competition) is in my opinion a pretty good indication that the OS group is just fine.

[Edited 2005-09-15 22:21:57]

User currently offlineBohlman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4029 times:

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 8):

In what way? Too many seats or not enough seats?

With just 257 seats, the Airbus A340-200 is a relatively small, cost-intensive four-jet long-range aircraft with low revenue potential.

So according to their press release, it's not only too small, but costs too much as well. Too expensive to take too few people, I guess.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 8):
That would give them an aircraft about the same size as the 342. Number of seats the right size then?

Nope, they'll definitely be going for larger aircraft, at least, if they hold true with what their press release says.

An application to acquire replacements for the two long-range aircraft will be presented to the Supervisory Board of the Austrian Airlines Group at the end of September.

Quoting A342 (Reply 6):
They are popular as executive aircraft and will continue to do so

I could only find three on A.net, but that's hardly proof that there aren't many. I'm not sure I would call even the 747SP "popular" as a private aircraft. I wouldn't mind knowing where you got that fact.

For those of you interested in the actual press release from OS, go here:

http://www.austrianairlines.co.at/en...F4464-49BA-40D5-A570-767610AD0DCF}


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8195 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3981 times:

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 5):
today it is really a niche aircraft for long and thin routes like JNB-PER for instance. At latest with the advent of the 787/A350 they will become obsolete ...

Not on the JNB-PER route they won't. ETOPS remember?


User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3884 times:

Quoting Bohlman (Reply 10):
How do you figure that? They've posted profits for the past three years (at least, that's all they had on their website

I think you are wrong here, they are not struggeling but they aren´t in good shape either. They had a minus last year.


User currently offlineBohlman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3806 times:

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 13):
They had a minus last year.

Did you check their website? Cause they say the opposite of that.


User currently offlineHZ747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3740 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Bohlman (Reply 11):
That would give them an aircraft about the same size as the 342. Number of seats the right size then?

Nope, they'll definitely be going for larger aircraft, at least, if they hold true with what their press release says.

An application to acquire replacements for the two long-range aircraft will be presented to the Supervisory Board of the Austrian Airlines Group at the end of September.

Actually, it is quite clear to me. They do not care which aircraft it is, or how big it is, they are more concerned with efficiency of the aircraft:

A = reasonable expected revenue per person, per segment
B = costs per person, per segment

A needs to be bigger than B. In fact, the bigger A is, the better. If A is just a hair bigger than B, and there are products which A is a lot bigger than B, and you can find someone to buy your inefficient aircraft, by all means, do so.

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 13):
I think you are wrong here, they are not struggeling but they aren´t in good shape either. They had a minus last year.

Well, it is expected to be a bad year financially for the airline:
http://www.newratings.com/analyst_news/article_942404.html



Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlineGRZ-AIR From Austria, joined Apr 2001, 574 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3473 times:

Aua was posting quite some high losses this year... I hope they manage and won't be aquired by the "Kranich"  Wink!

cheers, P.



When I joined A.net it was still free, haha ;).
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26357 posts, RR: 76
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3336 times:

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 8):
Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 2):
I'd rather expect more A332, finances permitting.

That would give them an aircraft about the same size as the 342. Number of seats the right size then?

The A332 is far more efficient for most missions than the A342

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 12):
Quoting PADSpot (Reply 5):
today it is really a niche aircraft for long and thin routes like JNB-PER for instance. At latest with the advent of the 787/A350 they will become obsolete ...

Not on the JNB-PER route they won't. ETOPS remember?

ETOPS330 would allow it



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6864 posts, RR: 63
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3136 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 9):
However, Amiri Flight is now getting a brand-new A345, too !

A bit off topic but, just to set the record straight, they aren't "getting" an A345, they've got it. In fact they've had it for two years since it was delivered in September 2003.

Back on topic... Anyone see AUA being an early customer for the A350???


User currently offlineVORFMD From Austria, joined Feb 2005, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3115 times:

Quoting GRZ-AIR (Reply 16):
Aua was posting quite some high losses this year

wrong, they were posting quite high losses for the first 6 months. Since 3 Months it´s going better and better. However, end of this year there will be losses, but not that high. Next year the want be back in the blacks.

Estimate more B772 to come after the 2 A342 left the Fleet.


User currently offlineHZ747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3100 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting PM (Reply 18):
Back on topic... Anyone see AUA being an early customer for the A350???

No. Lauda introduced them to the wonderful world of Boeing aircraft, and they are sold on the greatest airplanes (as an American would say), or aeroplanes (as an Australian would say), and lord love a duck they are going to order more Boeing widebodies.

I would expect that they will go for fleet reduction in the near term as Austrian's on management admits there will be a shakedown in the European air market. Once the dust settles, then mabye they will purchase new planes more efficient planes. Remember, this is contraction by Austrian, not seeking a replacement for an under performing aircraft.



Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5293 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3010 times:

I remember AR at one stage were looking for an additional A342, is this still the case?

User currently offlineIcelandair From Iceland, joined Jun 2005, 84 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2875 times:

Quoting GRZ-AIR (Reply 16):
Aua was posting quite some high losses this year... I hope they manage and won't be aquired by the "Kranich"

I´d say it's only a matter of time!



http://www.flugbegleiter.net/
User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2824 times:

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 12):
Not on the JNB-PER route they won't. ETOPS remember?

The A340-200 has FOUR engines. ETOPS means Extended-range Twin-engine Operation Performance Standards, thus applies for two-engined aircraft. SAA flies the A342 on JNB-PER btw ...


User currently offlineBohlman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2679 times:

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 20):
Remember, this is contraction by Austrian, not seeking a replacement for an under performing aircraft.

I don't know where you got that information, but according to their press release, they're going to have a replacement proposal by the end of the month...


25 Breiz : A310, A319, A320, A321, A332, A342, A343, B737-3/4/6/7/8, B767-3, B777-2, F70, MD83/87, there is some room for fleet reduction... Particularly for a
26 A342 : Already phased out. As the topic says, they will be phased out. You forgot the F100 fleet they recently acquired. There are rumors that more will com
27 Breiz : Sorry about the F70 and MDs, I am an Airbus guy really. Talking of which, the A310 c/n 624 is still the property of Austrian and is leased to Islands
28 VORFMD : It´s an internal Secret that those 2 A342 will be replaced by B772.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Philippine Airlines A340-200 posted Wed Feb 25 2004 06:21:13 by Iflypal
AUA (Austrian Airlines G.) Resume Flights To Malta posted Fri Dec 6 2002 20:00:50 by BBADXB
Austrian Airlines A340 At FRA Today posted Sat Jan 5 2002 14:58:14 by 9V-SPF
777-200 & 737-800 Fort Austrian Airlines? posted Wed Nov 21 2001 12:25:46 by Airmale
Austrian Airlines posted Wed Nov 1 2006 07:15:27 by Anirudhvs
Austrian Airlines Wants To Join Skyteam... posted Tue Sep 19 2006 08:14:31 by Beaucaire
Did Austrian Airlines Ever Fly Regional Jets? posted Wed Sep 6 2006 02:32:13 by Mr spaceman
Austrian Airlines To End SYD, MEL, KUL, And SIN posted Tue Jul 25 2006 21:34:47 by MAH4546
Austrian Airlines Postpones Launch Of Iraq Service posted Tue Jul 11 2006 22:43:04 by PAHS200
Gulf Air New A340-200 posted Sun Jun 11 2006 22:33:14 by Horus